Discussion on Beta Ray Bill and Bishop

2

Comments

  • Jormagund
    Jormagund Posts: 175 Tile Toppler
    Might have meant gain AP as the new Protect tiles are matched away?
  • Palookaville
    Palookaville Posts: 83 Match Maker
    krakenoon said:
    @Palookaville

    How does BRB get HP?
    Slip of the tongue, he doesn't gain HP. I was talking about the "match a protect time, gain blue" thingy.

    Apologies for me being such a sausage.
  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
    @Palookaville

    No worries, I’ve had more than my fair share of moments.
  • Loosie
    Loosie Posts: 397 Mover and Shaker
    I don't understand the talk of BRB being broken. He still only gets 1 Blue and 1 Green AP on a match, even at 5 covers. Yes cascades will mean he gets 1 for each match, but it's still only one per match, you don't get 3 AP if a match-3 is all protect tiles. You would have to be really unlucky to have him firing that power every turn.

    Bishop on the other hand.....

    In all honesty I can do without any more 'jump to front' powers.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2020
    Loosie said:
    I don't understand the talk of BRB being broken. He still only gets 1 Blue and 1 Green AP on a match, even at 5 covers. Yes cascades will mean he gets 1 for each match, but it's still only one per match, you don't get 3 AP if a match-3 is all protect tiles. You would have to be really unlucky to have him firing that power every turn.

    Bishop on the other hand.....

    In all honesty I can do without any more 'jump to front' powers.
    I agree that BRB is not crazy broken.  But I think his ap gen does proc once per sap tile destroyed.  So a match3 that included 3 protect tiles would result in +3 blue and +3 green ap.  It's a strong passive.  But by itself it's not overwhelmingly strong IMO.  It still takes some time for BRB to build up ap, and there are many tools available to mitigate it.

    It can get a little silly when combined with other tile spammers like carnage or kitty or rescue.  But that's fine by me as I like strong synergies.  Just so long as they aren't so strong that mirror matches are the only way to be competitive, or so slow that grinding pve and pvp becomes a nightmare.
  • IIAlonditeII
    IIAlonditeII Posts: 150 Tile Toppler
    BRB is not overpowered, but is definitely a "top of the Class standalone" character, which is why he seems better than a lot of the good Partner characters. 

    Bishop is the one that is overpowered.
  • Tiggida
    Tiggida Posts: 64 Match Maker
    edited June 2020
    BRBs cd tile should not be fortified automatically. His blue could still get out of control pretty fast even without it. I usually find it easier to stun him and down him rather than trying to get rid of that cd tile.
  • Kixty
    Kixty Posts: 20 Just Dropped In
    I don't think that Bill is broken.  He is very good, but not broken.  I only skip when the team is BRBishop or I don'thave time for a longer match.  Otherwise I generally look to attack BRB teams.  Bring Thorkoye and Rescue to a BRB fight.  Bring a 3* Loki black team up or any number of stuns.  There are options to beat him.  
  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler
    Bishop is the broken one on this thread 
  • Kross
    Kross Posts: 105 Tile Toppler
    Can the people who don't have a problem with Bishop post some videos of how you are beating those teams, or direct me to them if you have already done so.

    I avoid Bishop like the plague and am genuinely curious how people are beating him easily. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kross said:
    Can the people who don't have a problem with Bishop post some videos of how you are beating those teams, or direct me to them if you have already done so.

    I avoid Bishop like the plague and am genuinely curious how people are beating him easily. 
    BRB actually does make it slightly easier to beat bishop because brb's protects make it hard to proc bishop on the first match. 

    I can do it reliably, but it's expensive and not fun, which is a big part of why I don't PVP as much as I used to.  But for me, the most reliable method I use is HE/worthy. Since HE has 2017 match damage it's reasonably easy to avoid proccing a high level bishop (and my mmr gives me lots of 330+ bishops).  But that suggestion is not useful unless you had a strong 4* roster in early 2017 and thus had a shot to cover HE before he left latest tokens. This is also true of SS who is immune to stun.

    You can use a mirror bishop.  This is reasonably reliable if you can avoid proc'ing bishop on your first turn (then the only risk is an enemy cascade that proc's your bishop's red, which proc's THEIR bishop's red and you might be in trouble).

    You can use a 4* stunlock team (just be sure to throw up a defensive 5* team first or you will be eaten alive).

    I think fight4 is the leading proponent of "bishop is not broken" though, and has previously posted some long threads with advice about how to challenge bishop teams.


  • Taganov
    Taganov Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
    BRB isn't broken at all. The wailing and gnashing of teeth following Bishop indicates something, but I'm unconvinced a nerf is the solution. Not in this game, anyway.
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    Taganov said:
    BRB isn't broken at all. The wailing and gnashing of teeth following Bishop indicates something, but I'm unconvinced a nerf is the solution. Not in this game, anyway.
    Instead of nerfing characters, I’d rather have MPQ limit the use of characters as many games limit the amount of attacks before a cool down period . Much like health packs , you would have a starter amount maximum, such as 8, with an extra use regeneration every hour .  MPQ could sell extra use tokens , giving them an additional source of income . Once a character reached zero, it becomes zero in any arena of battle , PVE or PvAI offensive and defensive. A use in a defensive battle would also subtract a use token and substitute an alternative.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's worth noting they did a couple attempts at limited PVPs where they locked out characters - or if you prefer, set up limited options - and those were done in December, and haven't been repeated since.

    The ability to restrict characters you can select obviously exists, but I'm not sure that a "use x number of times and no more" exists and agree it would not be a thing that would be broadly accepted.  Dilution is just too big of a hurdle for newer players.

    i remain skeptical that nerfs will be implemented in any significant way, so it's probably best to expect counters to be the way they try to control the meta, when they do so.  Apocalypse is a fairly strong anti-Bishop character and I'm glad he's in the game, but I wish it hadn't taken so very long to implement some kind of counter.


  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    A few decent unstunnable characters , like SSurfers ability and Doc Ock and Apoc with requirements, and Bishop could be countered . 
      I’m not a 5* player , and I would never  turn down character use limits , I’ve got a half dozen 4 star teams I use well , unfortunately all useless since 90% of opponents are Gritty, BRBishop and Hammerhawk. I would estimate 36 of the 44 5* in current MPQ roster I have never seen in versus 🆚. 
  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 587 Critical Contributor
    I’ve said this before but there is an easy fix on Bishop - remove base match damage from the things that can trigger his passive. 

    Special tiles - yes, powers (active and passive) - yes.

    That way at least he can still combat Grocket teams etc.

    I haven’t heard a valid counter-argument to this yet to be honest. Other than the folk who only have BRB champed obvs.
  • IIAlonditeII
    IIAlonditeII Posts: 150 Tile Toppler
    Michael1957 said:
    Taganov said:
    BRB isn't broken at all. The wailing and gnashing of teeth following Bishop indicates something, but I'm unconvinced a nerf is the solution. Not in this game, anyway.
    Instead of nerfing characters, I’d rather have MPQ limit the use of characters as many games limit the amount of attacks before a cool down period . Much like health packs , you would have a starter amount maximum, such as 8, with an extra use regeneration every hour .  MPQ could sell extra use tokens , giving them an additional source of income . Once a character reached zero, it becomes zero in any arena of battle , PVE or PvAI offensive and defensive. A use in a defensive battle would also subtract a use token and substitute an alternative.
    God this sounds like absolutely the worse idea I've ever heard. 

    If they implemented this, I'd ask for a refund and uninstall.
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    Naturally my suggestion will receive harsh criticism from unimaginative one trick ponies , but I’d love to go against every character in the deck instead of the same monotonous 3 offerings ad nauseum offered by whale clones .

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