Apocalypse: Savior of MPQ or Gambit 2.0?

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  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well I just came across Apocalypse lvl 435 in Perfect Storm with only 2 colours, dunno how legit that was and this was no 5* roster otherwise. What I can say is - Apocalypse is an absolute broken monster. His health alone is ridiculous - he wasn't even champed! And his multiple hit attack just destroys you. 
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2020
    Apocalypse is here to save the game
    Apo is really amazing, but Gambit 2.0? Not even close. Gambit was invincible, you had to bring another Gambit to deal with him, no one was even remotely close to him, I see plenty of teams that can deal with Apo, and this makes a massive difference. Also Gambit could deal with every single type of special tile easily, so he made a lot of game modes trivial. In the end, Gambit’s passive was simply broken and completely OP and he had to be nerfed (sadly, he was over nerfed like always happens).

    There is always some chars that will be the best 5s in the tier, Okoye, Kitty, Thor, BRB maybe iHulk... Apo just joins the ranks of the best 5s in the game, and this is good.

    And yeah Devs, buff the older 5s :(
  • Haithere
    Haithere Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    You should have an option for, "I'll never hit 5 star land anyway, so who cares?"

    Because I'm in that camp. 
  • Vins2
    Vins2 Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    Daredevil217 said:
    Yeah but that’s assuming they “course correct” and give us two 4* in a row. Which I have zero reason to believe will happen knowing this company. They’ve already taken the “hits” for this. Might as well keep applying that pressure. I believe if we were getting two 4* to even things out, that would have been part of the whole “our hands were tied” press release. 

    I think they'll call it on the fly depending on if  the current 5s are drawing money for them.  I already saw a champed Apocalypse in the Storm pvp, so I anticipate a larger window of time where he's in the Latest pool.  
  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    ZootSax said:
    Vhailorx said:
    The last time a meta team did not rely purely on active powers was what?  4* thorverine? sentry bombing?  That was 2014/15.  It's just really really hard to dominate all game modes without strong passives.
    Even both of those used Hood in Pick-3, if I’m not mistaken.
    Sentry bombing more or less required sentry to proc the CDs early.  So it's a bit of a cheat to call it an active-only strat.  But it would have been viable with just Hood's black, so I think it counts.  Thorverine was definitely a true, active-only meta. 
    My post was unclear--I wasn't disagreeing with you that both of those were the last two meta teams reliant on active abilities.  I was only pointing out even then strong passives were significant.  The fact that X-Forces old green would one-shot a 166 Hood was a bid deal for Thorverine, even though the relevant powers for the combo were all active.

  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
    Apocalypse is the new old Gambit
    After playing with the loaner, I think he may not be as OP as I thought. 
    His black may hit hard, but without BRB to generate the 4 protect tiles, it is going to be quite slow. And to remove the buffed protect tiles from Britty, seems a waste at times (granted I am using a loaner).
    Also, his black hits random enemies so sometimes I can’t kill the specific enemy I want to. That can be quite a chore when I need to finish off the enemies. 
    His red ignore enemy protect tiles, but really need the yellow to be strong. 
    Apocalypse also act as a counter against the current meta team. Stun immunity is clearly a hard counter against Bishop and Worthy Cap. His yellow also generate repeaters tiles, which Kitty Circuit Breaker has no way of dealing with it.
    i could now see why they make his yellow 7ap, because if it’s 9ap, it will take too long, and Yelena will be a hard counter. 
    It looks like he will definitely shake up the meta a lot. 

  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
    This event seems very health pack intensive and he’s dangerous even paired with 3 stars for any underdeveloped roster.
    While he is boosted, I find I have no good way of dealing with him. Almost guaranteed to drop one of each of his powers by the time I whittle down his health. If he has a meta teammate, like Bishop, it’s a pass.
    Anyone else not in 5 land nor solidly in 4 having a lot of trouble with the new 5 star PvPs?
  • optimus2861
    optimus2861 Posts: 1,233 Chairperson of the Boards
    krakenoon said:
    This event seems very health pack intensive and he’s dangerous even paired with 3 stars for any underdeveloped roster.
    While he is boosted, I find I have no good way of dealing with him. Almost guaranteed to drop one of each of his powers by the time I whittle down his health. If he has a meta teammate, like Bishop, it’s a pass.
    Anyone else not in 5 land nor solidly in 4 having a lot of trouble with the new 5 star PvPs?
    Man you pair him with Okoye, get his yellow out, and he's savagely dangerous. I dropped a 460-something Thor from full health in one shot. Can't recall if it was his black or red I used, but man.

    I can't even imagine what the PVP field is going to look like once some champs start floating around. Never mind a 500-something Apoc. Widespread death, I imagine.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Why not both?
    Can I change my vote?  Or have a new option?

    While he's not "Gambit" as in a one-man show that you must run to win PVP....pick 3 PVP will soon (in approx 1 1/2 months once all the people now hoarding have Poccy covered) become a wasteland of BRB/Bishop/Poccy as far as all those players who want to avoid taking hits.

    Every "meta" character makes PVP worse.  I am not convinced that Poccy will be strong enough on his own to overcome that garbage team, maybe a mirror match would win but that just means the prevalence of the team will exponentially grow.

    So he's not the savior, and he's not the one-man show, but he's definitely just keeping the super-annoying defensive meta going that I've been suffering through for the past few months.
  • IIAlonditeII
    IIAlonditeII Posts: 150 Tile Toppler
    Apocalypse is here to save the game
    he's not what Gambit was where you have to use him or lose to him, but I think he's a great puzzle piece that fits into this meta to actually widen it out
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    'Poccy as a LOANER can hit you for 20k damage with his black. Where does power creep go from here!
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    Can I change my vote?  Or have a new option?

    While he's not "Gambit" as in a one-man show that you must run to win PVP....pick 3 PVP will soon (in approx 1 1/2 months once all the people now hoarding have Poccy covered) become a wasteland of BRB/Bishop/Poccy as far as all those players who want to avoid taking hits.

    Every "meta" character makes PVP worse.  I am not convinced that Poccy will be strong enough on his own to overcome that garbage team, maybe a mirror match would win but that just means the prevalence of the team will exponentially grow.

    So he's not the savior, and he's not the one-man show, but he's definitely just keeping the super-annoying defensive meta going that I've been suffering through for the past few months.
    I may eat these words later, but I don’t think the meta could be much worse than it is right now. It’s either you getting stunlocked or fighting through waves of buffed protects that fuel your opponent. Neither is fun. Both are slow. And if you don’t play them yourself, you get murdered via defensive losses. 

    Apoc (and to a lesser extent Hulk), will hopefully breathe new life into this meta and at worst will at least speed it up. Instead of sitting around stunlocked, Apoc can shrug it off and one-shot the 4* giving you a 3 on 2 advantage. He can also shoot through all those boosted protect tiles that BRBitty loves so much.  You can now hunt those high point nodes and dispose of them quickly, rather than hitting the skip button. Apoc really feels like the counter meta we’ve been asking for. And making him super scary in terms of health, match damage, and ability costs means we don’t have “The Surfer/Black Suit dilemma” of using the counter but leaving a super weak retal on defense. 

    The only problem I see is the rapid release rate just so happens to coincide with the greatest Latest Legends trio since Gambit/Thor/DD. So I’m sure many non-hoarders who are used to keeping up based on their playstyle, are going to be caught flat-footed and miss out on the answer to our current problems and be further behind. I know this is likely the point and developers are hoping that it will cause players to spend more. But it still feel ****. 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Why not both?
    I agree that Poccy can speed things up a little but still worry that you'll end up with a just as annoying meta on defense as we have now, maybe slightly moreso.

    I have no reason to believe that their current release schedule and plan etc will result in higher player retention; quite the opposite.  I feel like they are transitioning to a game that caters almost exclusively to mostly at 5*/high 4/ longtime vet audience.  So many have already expressed the opinion of feeling left behind, not feeling like keeping up anymore etc.

    They are running a 5* PVP in season, and they keep running PVPs with boosted 5s (I Spy, House of X now, etc), and they nerfed rewards for EVERYONE in PVE under SCL10 which realistically requires a 5* roster.

    All that means that players who are lower end have GOT to be feeling that it's more pointless and they'll never catch up.  Maybe I'm wrong but maybe it also doesn't matter when a game is 6 1/2 years old.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Apocalypse is clearly a solution to a 5* problem but I think 4* and below will absorb the collateral damage. 3 to 4 star rosters who often rely on teams that can stun to deal with better developed rosters, Apocalypse even at lower levels may break the game for them in SHIELD Sim. With his health levels, as an unstunnable meat shield he is going to be very tough to get past, especially if the other team has stunners on it. I think people will spend on this guy - heck I came across a 0/2/4 Apocalypse from some Japanese alliance - how much would it have cost in HP to get those 6 covers?  Many, many 40 packs unless that guy was super lucky. And with the exception of Karnak, the 4s are getting weaker from what we have had so far in 2020. Definitely feels like a shift in focus for MPQ to the portion of players who can either keep up or have been hoarding for years. They want your hoards! And they are gonna get them...
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Why not both?
    DAZ0273 said:
    Apocalypse is clearly a solution to a 5* problem but I think 4* and below will absorb the collateral damage. 3 to 4 star rosters who often rely on teams that can stun to deal with better developed rosters, Apocalypse even at lower levels may break the game for them in SHIELD Sim. With his health levels, as an unstunnable meat shield he is going to be very tough to get past, especially if the other team has stunners on it. I think people will spend on this guy - heck I came across a 0/2/4 Apocalypse from some Japanese alliance - how much would it have cost in HP to get those 6 covers?  Many, many 40 packs unless that guy was super lucky. And with the exception of Karnak, the 4s are getting weaker from what we have had so far in 2020. Definitely feels like a shift in focus for MPQ to the portion of players who can either keep up or have been hoarding for years. They want your hoards! And they are gonna get them...
    The devs won't rest until all the freeloading FTPers have quit in frustation.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Apocalypse is here to save the game
    I think they are trying to make completionists quit instead. I don't think casual players are bothered about catching up. Try joining a top 5000-10000 alliance for a month or two and see how they play MPQ.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2020
    Why not both?
    HoundofShadow said:
    I think they are trying to make completionists quit instead. I don't think casual players are bothered about catching up. Try joining a top 5000-10000 alliance for a month or two and see how they play MPQ.
    OK, the venn diagram of people who try kind of hard, but can't really manage to schedule their lives around the game.  And hence linger in the T100/250 range, have a decent roster but the signs all scream "no way to really progress for you".

    Sure, casual folks who never spent a dime?  They can keep playing this game forever and probably like it more than ever, but they are a detriment to the game's survival by clogging servers up without contributing to the costs.  Other than being the plankton and minnows the big fish eat up they serve no purpose for the game.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards
    Apocalypse is the new old Gambit
    after playing his PVP I think Apocalypse/Thor will be meta as will be Okoye/Thor.  The difference will be defensively you will see Apocalypse BRB or Apocalypse Kitty on defense.  Apocalypse/Thor will be the offensive go to team but not as good defensively.  

    I think this will compare to the Panthos Meta. Panthos was for speed and hopping but not great for climbing as it would use up a ton of health packs.  0-500 Okoye/Thor will be great to save health packs.  500+ switch to Apocalypse/Thor.  Then when you want to float for a bit put in BRB/Kitty, or Apocalypse/BRB, or Kitty/ Apocalypse.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Why not both?
    wymtime said:
    after playing his PVP I think Apocalypse/Thor will be meta as will be Okoye/Thor.  The difference will be defensively you will see Apocalypse BRB or Apocalypse Kitty on defense.  Apocalypse/Thor will be the offensive go to team but not as good defensively.  

    I think this will compare to the Panthos Meta. Panthos was for speed and hopping but not great for climbing as it would use up a ton of health packs.  0-500 Okoye/Thor will be great to save health packs.  500+ switch to Apocalypse/Thor.  Then when you want to float for a bit put in BRB/Kitty, or Apocalypse/BRB, or Kitty/ Apocalypse.
    Insert Bishop/Apocalypse as well..... BRB and Apoc will be able to float pretty well, not just a bit.

    Not sure about Kitty/Apocalypse unless the essential spams SAPs of some sort.  Even if Poccy's stuff is 7 A, you still need to get that collected before Kitty is boosting anything.  And Poccy's first 7 black are just putting out protects without BRB or someone else putting some out as spam (Cage).

    I'd hit a pair of Kitty/Apocalypse without too much concern.  Poccy red being 7 is a bit scary but at least Kitty probably won't use Practiced Offense, and it's all moreso if the 3rd wheel has higher cost red (same with the black and yellow).  The AI being dumb about ability usage will probably make Poccy a bit easier to handle than some are thinking right now, as I consider it, but it will depend on the PVP.  This is only true, however, as far as being able to absorb the match dmg and chew through his health (high end players) whereas the people will less developed rosters will be suffering more.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Apocalypse is here to save the game
    Every game has different types of players, from the hardcore to the super casual. It's inescapable. For virtual storage space, they usually have a minimum amount/subscription fee anyway. So, even without super casual players, devs are still paying for unused storage space.

    Anyway, I'm already seeing Apocalypse in Shield Simulator, Lightning Rounds and PvPs. Either these 4* players are lucky with their pulls, or they are whaling in the HP store. Apart from high damage, this guy isn't that big of a threat. iHulk is more threatening and damaging to 4* players.

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