Grand Experiment 2: Treading Water in the SCL 10 Post-Shardpocalypse

Bowgentle

Doc Ock is Team Iron Man.
Rescue is not - whyyyy.

entrailbucket

Someone pointed out that Riri is though -- that team might actually be good, despite the overlap.

dianetics

@entrailbucket said:
The real problem here is that Iron Man cares a whole lot about who's on his team, way more than any other character does.

Ironman cared way more about perception than what was actually virtuous. I guess that fits Tony as a character since he was always an alcoholic pre-madonna. Even re-watching the civil war movie Tony cared so much about perception that it was a near villainous fault.

Sp1d3r

@entrailbucket said:
Max level boosted Iron Man has 450,000HP.

He does 79,000 base damage on red, plus 73,000 per Team IM ally.

His yellow is obviously still uncastable at 12ap, but at 5 covers the CD tiles do 76,000 damage each.

These are crazy numbers.. i only have 3 champed 5*s but luckily for me 1 of them is apoc 😁 and his damage is insane at only lvl 450

entrailbucket

@Sp1d3r said:

@entrailbucket said:
Max level boosted Iron Man has 450,000HP.

He does 79,000 base damage on red, plus 73,000 per Team IM ally.

His yellow is obviously still uncastable at 12ap, but at 5 covers the CD tiles do 76,000 damage each.

These are crazy numbers.. i only have 3 champed 5*s but luckily for me 1 of them is apoc 😁 and his damage is insane at only lvl 450

Max-champ 5* (lvl550) have crazy numbers, especially when they're boosted to level 675 or whatever. And they should! It takes a long time (or is very, very expensive) to get someone to that level.

The biggest problem with the 5* tier is that certain characters, for no good reason, don't have crazy numbers (like Iron Man before this buff, Wasp, Kingpin, etc).

Sp1d3r

@entrailbucket said:

@Sp1d3r said:

@entrailbucket said:
Max level boosted Iron Man has 450,000HP.

He does 79,000 base damage on red, plus 73,000 per Team IM ally.

His yellow is obviously still uncastable at 12ap, but at 5 covers the CD tiles do 76,000 damage each.

These are crazy numbers.. i only have 3 champed 5*s but luckily for me 1 of them is apoc 😁 and his damage is insane at only lvl 450

Max-champ 5* (lvl550) have crazy numbers, especially when they're boosted to level 675 or whatever. And they should! It takes a long time (or is very, very expensive) to get someone to that level.

The biggest problem with the 5* tier is that certain characters, for no good reason, don't have crazy numbers (like Iron Man before this buff, Wasp, Kingpin, etc).

Yeah I definitely agree with all this.. nearly half a mil HP is insane but its definitely the reward u should get for the amount of effort put in to get there in the 1st place.. I'm not a koney spender I can't afford it lol that's why I only have 3 champed 5*s I'm on day 1589 atm

Sp1d3r

Ive been putting all my cps into LLs is this a mistake as i only ever have a chance of pulling 1 of 3 characters and once they move out of LLs i cant pull them anymore..am i doing the right thing or should i buy CLs instead? i just after some advice as a player trying to build my 5* roster.. Thanks.

dianetics

@Sp1d3r said:
Ive been putting all my cps into LLs is this a mistake as i only ever have a chance of pulling 1 of 3 characters and once they move out of LLs i cant pull them anymore..am i doing the right thing or should i buy CLs instead? i just after some advice as a player trying to build my 5* roster.. Thanks.

It really depends on your LL Token and CP generation. Are you pulling as you go or are you saving up tokens and cp? How much do you generate for a month on average?

atomzed

@Sp1d3r said:
Ive been putting all my cps into LLs is this a mistake as i only ever have a chance of pulling 1 of 3 characters and once they move out of LLs i cant pull them anymore..am i doing the right thing or should i buy CLs instead? i just after some advice as a player trying to build my 5* roster.. Thanks.

@Sp1d3r, for someone new with no 5* champs, I recommend to focus on LL rather than classics. Classics is cheaper but it is so diluted, that it is virtually impossible to get 13 covers for a single character. So you are definitely doing the right thing by focusing on LL.

However you also need to time when to go all into LL. The maths guru have done the maths, and you need around 240-300 pulls to ensure that you can pull 13 covers for the three characters. It’s a big range, because there’s a wide variation in pulls (or in laymen terms, luck). If you are using pure CP, that’s 6000 - 7500.

If your CP/LT acquisition rate is not high enough, then you should just wait. Don’t pull as you gain CP/LT.

Sekilicious

The recommendation for the 4 to 5 transition is to pull from CL until you have all 5s rostered and about 75 4s fully covered or champed. Then hoard until you have 300 pulls from LLs. Then wait until there are two good 5s in LL (or a new character store with two meta if you have 7500 cp) and pull the hoard.
After you have a healthy 4* roster (champ rewards are the best source of LL tokens and cp) and can play PvE SCL10 to progression every event then covering the three in LL is pretty easy, but you have choices. If you want to champ everything wait to pull until characters you need covered are about to leave and only pull until you get 13. This should give you an excess of cp to cover classics from special token stores.
If you only want meta characters hoard until they are offered to pull. Once you get 1800 pulls you can get meta characters from the LL to 550, but that takes over a year of hoarding even with a healthy 4* roster and playing SCL10. This will let you cover classic 5s as well, since once you get all three 5s in the LL store to 550 customer service will convert the excess to any character you want. This is the approach needed if you want to compete in PvE with the ancient veteran rosters that populate the wilds of MPQ.
A hybrid approach would be to get every character to 7 covers then let feeders get you the last 6 you need. Hoarding all the way.
The final approach is to only pull classics, but if you have no 5s you are relying on rng to get you the meta characters that make PvE and PvP bearable. But like entrail has show you will get all 5s to 450+ at roughly the same time. However, as RW has shown in this thread you can switch to all classics after your 4 and 5* roster is mature enough.
Edit - there is also the soft cap approach, in which you never transition from 4 to 5. Here, just cap your 5s to your highest 4. This way you can pull from anything you want and Polaris will always be meta. You can complete SCL10 to progression though maybe stick to the easy ones until Polaris is huge.
TL/DR - hoarding is life and life is hoarding. But there are alternatives depending on your goals.

Sp1d3r

@dianetics said:

@Sp1d3r said:
Ive been putting all my cps into LLs is this a mistake as i only ever have a chance of pulling 1 of 3 characters and once they move out of LLs i cant pull them anymore..am i doing the right thing or should i buy CLs instead? i just after some advice as a player trying to build my 5* roster.. Thanks.

It really depends on your LL Token and CP generation. Are you pulling as you go or are you saving up tokens and cp? How much do you generate for a month on average?

I pull as I go.. I hit max progression I every pve scl10 so my cp generation is pretty good I steer clear from pvp tho as I made the mistake of champing 3 5*s and my opponent lvl jumped massively

Bowgentle

@Sp1d3r said:

@dianetics said:

@Sp1d3r said:
Ive been putting all my cps into LLs is this a mistake as i only ever have a chance of pulling 1 of 3 characters and once they move out of LLs i cant pull them anymore..am i doing the right thing or should i buy CLs instead? i just after some advice as a player trying to build my 5* roster.. Thanks.

It really depends on your LL Token and CP generation. Are you pulling as you go or are you saving up tokens and cp? How much do you generate for a month on average?

I pull as I go.. I hit max progression I every pve scl10 so my cp generation is pretty good I steer clear from pvp tho as I made the mistake of champing 3 5*s and my opponent lvl jumped massively

Yeah you need to hoard to make sure you can get 300 pulls every 3 months to champ all latest 5s.

Sp1d3r

@atomzed said:

@Sp1d3r said:
Ive been putting all my cps into LLs is this a mistake as i only ever have a chance of pulling 1 of 3 characters and once they move out of LLs i cant pull them anymore..am i doing the right thing or should i buy CLs instead? i just after some advice as a player trying to build my 5* roster.. Thanks.

@Sp1d3r, for someone new with no 5* champs, I recommend to focus on LL rather than classics. Classics is cheaper but it is so diluted, that it is virtually impossible to get 13 covers for a single character. So you are definitely doing the right thing by focusing on LL.

However you also need to time when to go all into LL. The maths guru have done the maths, and you need around 240-300 pulls to ensure that you can pull 13 covers for the three characters. It’s a big range, because there’s a wide variation in pulls (or in laymen terms, luck). If you are using pure CP, that’s 6000 - 7500.

If your CP/LT acquisition rate is not high enough, then you should just wait. Don’t pull as you gain CP/LT.

Sorry I should have mentioned I have champed 3 5*s but this advice is really helpful I guess I'll start saving lol

Sp1d3r

@Sekilicious said:
The recommendation for the 4 to 5 transition is to pull from CL until you have all 5s rostered and about 75 4s fully covered or champed. Then hoard until you have 300 pulls from LLs. Then wait until there are two good 5s in LL (or a new character store with two meta if you have 7500 cp) and pull the hoard.
After you have a healthy 4* roster (champ rewards are the best source of LL tokens and cp) and can play PvE SCL10 to progression every event then covering the three in LL is pretty easy, but you have choices. If you want to champ everything wait to pull until characters you need covered are about to leave and only pull until you get 13. This should give you an excess of cp to cover classics from special token stores.
If you only want meta characters hoard until they are offered to pull. Once you get 1800 pulls you can get meta characters from the LL to 550, but that takes over a year of hoarding even with a healthy 4* roster and playing SCL10. This will let you cover classic 5s as well, since once you get all three 5s in the LL store to 550 customer service will convert the excess to any character you want. This is the approach needed if you want to compete in PvE with the ancient veteran rosters that populate the wilds of MPQ.
A hybrid approach would be to get every character to 7 covers then let feeders get you the last 6 you need. Hoarding all the way.
The final approach is to only pull classics, but if you have no 5s you are relying on rng to get you the meta characters that make PvE and PvP bearable. But like entrail has show you will get all 5s to 450+ at roughly the same time. However, as RW has shown in this thread you can switch to all classics after your 4 and 5* roster is mature enough.
Edit - there is also the soft cap approach, in which you never transition from 4 to 5. Here, just cap your 5s to your highest 4. This way you can pull from anything you want and Polaris will always be meta. You can complete SCL10 to progression though maybe stick to the easy ones until Polaris is huge.
TL/DR - hoarding is life and life is hoarding. But there are alternatives depending on your goals.

Thanks for your time this is very interesting from the sound of it I need to start hoarding

Sp1d3r

@Bowgentle said:

@Sp1d3r said:

@dianetics said:

@Sp1d3r said:
Ive been putting all my cps into LLs is this a mistake as i only ever have a chance of pulling 1 of 3 characters and once they move out of LLs i cant pull them anymore..am i doing the right thing or should i buy CLs instead? i just after some advice as a player trying to build my 5* roster.. Thanks.

It really depends on your LL Token and CP generation. Are you pulling as you go or are you saving up tokens and cp? How much do you generate for a month on average?

I pull as I go.. I hit max progression I every pve scl10 so my cp generation is pretty good I steer clear from pvp tho as I made the mistake of champing 3 5*s and my opponent lvl jumped massively

Yeah you need to hoard to make sure you can get 300 pulls every 3 months to champ all latest 5s.

Thanks I'll start that today and see how I get on

KGB

@Sp1d3r said:

@Bowgentle said:
Yeah you need to hoard to make sure you can get 300 pulls every 3 months to champ all latest 5s.

Thanks I'll start that today and see how I get on

This number might be down quite a bit now given there are potentially 2 covers for each 5* available via Boss events. That means you only need 11 covers per character now (again, assuming your in an alliance that finished round 8) or 12 if only you make progression in boss events.

Plus of course all the shards from CL10 (assuming you do that CL).
Plus potential retro rewards from 4* if you happen to have any at L280 and the new 5* gets a 4* feeder at release.

Not sure what the math adds up to, but I suspect you can earn ~3-5 covers from all the above which dramatically lowers how many pulls you need from Latest. I know that since early last year I've covered all but 2 5* (and those are at 11 covers after the recent retro feeders) without opening anything close to 300 tokens.

KGB

entrailbucket

I feel like the game has changed so much in the last year -- between 5* boosts, new characters being more available, the massive retro feeder drops -- but the conventional wisdom/default advice about so many things hasn't changed much.

I always purposely did whatever was least optimal, but it does seem like some of the old "most optimal" roster building strategies aren't that anymore. I have absolutely no idea what the new ones would be, though...I'm still doing the same dumb stuff I always did.

Sekilicious

@KGB said:

@Sp1d3r said:

@Bowgentle said:
Yeah you need to hoard to make sure you can get 300 pulls every 3 months to champ all latest 5s.

Thanks I'll start that today and see how I get on

This number might be down quite a bit now given there are potentially 2 covers for each 5* available via Boss events. That means you only need 11 covers per character now (again, assuming your in an alliance that finished round 8) or 12 if only you make progression in boss events.

Plus of course all the shards from CL10 (assuming you do that CL).
Plus potential retro rewards from 4* if you happen to have any at L280 and the new 5* gets a 4* feeder at release.

Not sure what the math adds up to, but I suspect you can earn ~3-5 covers from all the above which dramatically lowers how many pulls you need from Latest. I know that since early last year I've covered all but 2 5* (and those are at 11 covers after the recent retro feeders) without opening anything close to 300 tokens.

KGB

This is a good point. With every 5 having a feeder from the outset and about 4 of each release gifted to the player you only need to pull 3 of each in the LL to champ everything (eventually anyways) going forward once you play SCL10 consistently. This lets you spend cp anywhere you like. The optimal approach would be whatever your goals are.

dianetics

@KGB said
This number might be down quite a bit now given there are potentially 2 covers for each 5* available via Boss events. That means you only need 11 covers per character now (again, assuming you’re in an alliance that finished round 8) or 12 if only you make progression in boss events.

Plus of course all the shards from CL10 (assuming you do that CL).
Plus potential retro rewards from 4* if you happen to have any at L280 and the new 5* gets a 4* feeder at release.

Not sure what the math adds up to, but I suspect you can earn ~3-5 covers from all the above which dramatically lowers how many pulls you need from Latest. I know that since early last year I've covered all but 2 5* (and those are at 11 covers after the recent retro feeders) without opening anything close to 300 tokens.

KGB

Moving forward we cannot depend on bonus covers from retro rewards.
If they keep boss events rewards, then it’s most likely 2 covers from boss events and 3 covers from full progression.
We will still need to open nearly 200 tokens every 3 months to keep everyone champed.

entrailbucket

But they do seem to be launching each new 5* with a feeder, retro or not. Abomination will feed the next 5* after Hit Monkey, and 4* covers are so plentiful now that he may make a meaningful contribution.