New Survey: Rebalance in the works?

PiMacleod

Lower level people in my alliance do the same thing.  They barely have but a couple champed 4*s... And some have even less.... But as long as they have a yellow kitty, they're teaming her with daken or blade or whoever.

I dont blame them.   They dont complain either... They just see it as a cheap pass to more PvE progression.

Thats where im confused.  If she got nerfed, PvE would be slower for ALL players across the board, regardless of tier.

So wouldnt it make the playerbase happier to just make other 5*s at least a bit better, if not solutions to the PvP problem in their own right?

111MCH111

PiMacleod said:

Lower level people in my alliance do the same thing.  They barely have but a couple champed 4*s... And some have even less.... But as long as they have a yellow kitty, they're teaming her with daken or blade or whoever.

I dont blame them.   They dont complain either... They just see it as a cheap pass to more PvE progression.

Thats where im confused.  If she got nerfed, PvE would be slower for ALL players across the board, regardless of tier.

So wouldnt it make the playerbase happier to just make other 5*s at least a bit better, if not solutions to the PvP problem in their own right?

I ❤️ Kitty, I did exactly what you described... without Kitty it is too time consuming to grind PVE till the end.  Obviously my 💕bonus shards are Kitty, R4G and R3G 

111MCH111

Juggernaut 4* is a beast, although mine is too low, but I wonder if Jugs is combined with Gritty, does the synergy work? Has somebody experience with this team?

DAZ0273

I am of the opinion that Juggernaut solves a lot for PvE players as an alternative to Kitty as he can hit for some aoe damage from the first match 3. Typically on easy clears the first match 3 is the last match 3. And they have a decent chance of completing him.

Unfortunately - Kitty is a a shining example of laziness for this game we love. Lower tier players will not explore their possible combinations for PvP, they will just chuck Kitty at whatever the first combination available is. Is it beatable? Probably yes. Is it healthy to have the lower tiers so reliant on a 5* colour power? My feelings are pretty clear but YMMV. I see no difference between her yellow and OML's in terms of overall use, albeit for different reasons.

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

It isn't Kitty hate, it is Kitty fatigue. But you are a 5* player so you are not seeing the effect she has at lower levels. It isn't like the Bishop thing where 5* players jam up Shield Sim with their Bishop's and nobody else is affected much really. Kitty is everywhere and all levels and not just with Rocket and it seriously tedious. This coming week is going to be very boring and annoying...

Before kitty it was oml. Difference being Logan didnt need any specific ally. Kitty does. No specials on the board and she is so slow its laughable.

bluewolf

111MCH111 said:

Juggernaut 4* is a beast, although mine is too low, but I wonder if Jugs is combined with Gritty, does the synergy work? Has somebody experience with this team?

It depends on their relative sizes and your Supports.  A high level Kitty will tank a lot of stuff over a Juggernaut so the usefulness exists if you can make sure you manage things right.  (Supports that boost match damage can help Juggernaut tank over a Kitty but it all depends on the colors, etc.)

That said you just need to combine Rocket with a Guardian and you get the instant jump in strike strength from move 0 instead of a boost every turn, and you can clear a lot of stuff quickly using them with Juggernaut.

Juggernaut should definitely be someone you chase once you get Rocket champed.

111MCH111

bluewolf said:Juggernaut should definitely be someone you chase once you get Rocket champed.

Thx! Good advice 

DAZ0273

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

It isn't Kitty hate, it is Kitty fatigue. But you are a 5* player so you are not seeing the effect she has at lower levels. It isn't like the Bishop thing where 5* players jam up Shield Sim with their Bishop's and nobody else is affected much really. Kitty is everywhere and all levels and not just with Rocket and it seriously tedious. This coming week is going to be very boring and annoying...

Before kitty it was oml. Difference being Logan didnt need any specific ally. Kitty does. No specials on the board and she is so slow its laughable.

Sure but the truth is that your argument falls down because players are finding the weakest of combinations and still playing Kitty. Did you know that for the longest time the general forum advice was that 3* Dr. Strange is too squishy for PvP? My MMR is sweet enough that I can still fight 3* teams for a while per PvP.  I can tell you how wrong that advice is when you actually play PvP and see how many people play 3* Dr. Strange.

You say Kitty is slow and weak etc etc nobody uses her below the top tiers. All I can report is what I encounter and it doesn't line up with what you are saying.

But hey, this whole thing is just a circular my experience/your experience thing. I believe Kitty is a problem because she makes this game lazy, uninspired and boring at multiple levels - I totally understand if others disagree.

spidyjedi84

Juggs AoE with Rocket isn't terrible. I take that duo in on most SCL8 required nodes in PVE. For 80 percent of those matches, they can do it alone. When you get above level 300 foes, that's when bad boards can come back and bite you in the end, especially against sniper tiles you can't remove fast enough. Works better than Gritty, in that I don't eat as many wipes overall. I still rely on the trio of Kitty, Grocket and Juggs for most the other nodes in PVE, because they're faster than most of my roster, even boosted. With Strange boosted this week, though, Kitty may take a backseat, as having a reactionary against tile movers cleans boards slightly faster than boosting Grocket's tiles does. 

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

It isn't Kitty hate, it is Kitty fatigue. But you are a 5* player so you are not seeing the effect she has at lower levels. It isn't like the Bishop thing where 5* players jam up Shield Sim with their Bishop's and nobody else is affected much really. Kitty is everywhere and all levels and not just with Rocket and it seriously tedious. This coming week is going to be very boring and annoying...

Before kitty it was oml. Difference being Logan didnt need any specific ally. Kitty does. No specials on the board and she is so slow its laughable.

Sure but the truth is that your argument falls down because players are finding the weakest of combinations and still playing Kitty. Did you know that for the longest time the general forum advice was that 3* Dr. Strange is too squishy for PvP? My MMR is sweet enough that I can still fight 3* teams for a while per PvP.  I can tell you how wrong that advice is when you actually play PvP and see how many people play 3* Dr. Strange.

You say Kitty is slow and weak etc etc nobody uses her below the top tiers. All I can report is what I encounter and it doesn't line up with what you are saying.

But hey, this whole thing is just a circular my experience/your experience thing. I believe Kitty is a problem because she makes this game lazy, uninspired and boring at multiple levels - I totally understand if others disagree.

Ok. Run kitty, dr. Strange, and 4* thor. See how well you do. I'm not seeing 3* players myself. But I think I can confidently say a 1 or 2 yellow kitty is not being played with any and all teammates. She needs specials and needs them fast or her value drops.

HoundofShadow

Previously, I shared common teams I saw in 4* land once you hit the 1700 points in Shield Simulator. 

Cardusa Kitty

Gritty Medusa

Gritty Bishop

Gritty Juggernaut

Out of 12 teams, 1/3 includes Kitty Pryde. As for PvPs, I saw Kitty with Daken/Blade/R4G before. Out of 10 matches of the above combinations, I see Gritty 97% of the time, Daken 2% and Blade 1%. For my MMR, I see boosted 4* much more frequently than teams with Kitty. kitty with Daken or Blade is not effective because it is easily overcome.

I don't have a problem with Kitty's yellow, but I think her purple power could be powered down a little because it overwrites special tiles at a faster rate than OP/pre-nerfed Gambit. It renders a lot of characters' SAP and CD tiles ineffective.

Daredevil217

tiomono said:

Ok. Run kitty, dr. Strange, and 4* thor. See how well you do. I'm not seeing 3* players myself. But I think I can confidently say a 1 or 2 yellow kitty is not being played with any and all teammates. She needs specials and needs them fast or her value drops.

I agree 100%.  But, to be fair, it is mostly just DAZ0273 beating this Kitty drum over and over and there is nothing I think you can say to change his/her opinion.  As others have mentioned, most appreciate what she brings to their roster (even at a few covers).  I think the developers get that and I doubt they nerf her after offering her up in multiple stores and bundles. 

DAZ0273 said:

Is it healthy to have the lower tiers so reliant on a 5* colour power? My feelings are pretty clear but YMMV.

I don't really care to assess what is healthy/unhealthy behavior for any tier of player.  That's not for me to decide.  Are players having fun and enjoying themselves? Then great.

Ultimately, if the issue for you is fatigue, nerfing Kitty won't change that.  Thorkoye, Panthos, Jeanbuster, Grocket/Gamora, Sentry/Hood, and on and on.  There will always be a team players gravitate to.  I don't know how long you've been playing, but if you've been around long enough, you'd know this is just the truth of the game.  Taking away one just means choosing another.  And probably one that makes the game slower and grindier for everyone. 

I try to play a wide variety of teams, and that's how I find my fun.  If other players choose to use the same team over and over, then that is on them.

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

It isn't Kitty hate, it is Kitty fatigue. But you are a 5* player so you are not seeing the effect she has at lower levels. It isn't like the Bishop thing where 5* players jam up Shield Sim with their Bishop's and nobody else is affected much really. Kitty is everywhere and all levels and not just with Rocket and it seriously tedious. This coming week is going to be very boring and annoying...

Before kitty it was oml. Difference being Logan didnt need any specific ally. Kitty does. No specials on the board and she is so slow its laughable.

Sure but the truth is that your argument falls down because players are finding the weakest of combinations and still playing Kitty. Did you know that for the longest time the general forum advice was that 3* Dr. Strange is too squishy for PvP? My MMR is sweet enough that I can still fight 3* teams for a while per PvP.  I can tell you how wrong that advice is when you actually play PvP and see how many people play 3* Dr. Strange.

You say Kitty is slow and weak etc etc nobody uses her below the top tiers. All I can report is what I encounter and it doesn't line up with what you are saying.

But hey, this whole thing is just a circular my experience/your experience thing. I believe Kitty is a problem because she makes this game lazy, uninspired and boring at multiple levels - I totally understand if others disagree.

I also have not claimed that lower tiers are not using her. I was pointing out that her and Logan (pre nerf) are different problems. Kitty needs specials on the board preferably quickly. Which means she usually needs partners that can do that. Logan just needed to show up and didnt care who his allies were.

pheregas

Didn't vote.  It's clear by the previous voting result as "Fan Favorite" being Deadpool vs. MPQ that the vast majority of voters don't play competitively and don't seem to care for resources.  I could write quite the post why many PVEs are way better than that one. 

Exhibit B were the fan favorite PVPs...  Oh really? I say again.  Fan favorite characters...  There are many memes to describe my curiosity behind that choice (other than popularity of a character regardless of their actual use for long time players.)

So it really doesn't matter if I submit a thoughtful, well-argued reason for anything as it will be as a drop of water into the sea.  

And I find the sea rather salty.

DAZ0273

Daredevil217 said:

tiomono said:

Ok. Run kitty, dr. Strange, and 4* thor. See how well you do. I'm not seeing 3* players myself. But I think I can confidently say a 1 or 2 yellow kitty is not being played with any and all teammates. She needs specials and needs them fast or her value drops.

I agree 100%.  But, to be fair, it is mostly just DAZ0273 beating this Kitty drum over and over and there is nothing I think you can say to change his/her opinion.  As others have mentioned, most appreciate what she brings to their roster (even at a few covers).  I think the developers get that and I doubt they nerf her after offering her up in multiple stores and bundles. 

DAZ0273 said:

Is it healthy to have the lower tiers so reliant on a 5* colour power? My feelings are pretty clear but YMMV.

I don't really care to assess what is healthy/unhealthy behavior for any tier of player.  That's not for me to decide.  Are players having fun and enjoying themselves? Then great.

Ultimately, if the issue for you is fatigue, nerfing Kitty won't change that.  Thorkoye, Panthos, Jeanbuster, Grocket/Gamora, Sentry/Hood, and on and on.  There will always be a team players gravitate to.  I don't know how long you've been playing, but if you've been around long enough, you'd know this is just the truth of the game.  Taking away one just means choosing another.  And probably one that makes the game slower and grindier for everyone. 

I try to play a wide variety of teams, and that's how I find my fun.  If other players choose to use the same team over and over, then that is on them.

His.

DAZ0273

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

It isn't Kitty hate, it is Kitty fatigue. But you are a 5* player so you are not seeing the effect she has at lower levels. It isn't like the Bishop thing where 5* players jam up Shield Sim with their Bishop's and nobody else is affected much really. Kitty is everywhere and all levels and not just with Rocket and it seriously tedious. This coming week is going to be very boring and annoying...

Before kitty it was oml. Difference being Logan didnt need any specific ally. Kitty does. No specials on the board and she is so slow its laughable.

Sure but the truth is that your argument falls down because players are finding the weakest of combinations and still playing Kitty. Did you know that for the longest time the general forum advice was that 3* Dr. Strange is too squishy for PvP? My MMR is sweet enough that I can still fight 3* teams for a while per PvP.  I can tell you how wrong that advice is when you actually play PvP and see how many people play 3* Dr. Strange.

You say Kitty is slow and weak etc etc nobody uses her below the top tiers. All I can report is what I encounter and it doesn't line up with what you are saying.

But hey, this whole thing is just a circular my experience/your experience thing. I believe Kitty is a problem because she makes this game lazy, uninspired and boring at multiple levels - I totally understand if others disagree.

I also have not claimed that lower tiers are not using her. I was pointing out that her and Logan (pre nerf) are different problems. Kitty needs specials on the board preferably quickly. Which means she usually needs partners that can do that. Logan just needed to show up and didnt care who his allies were.

Sure. As Daredevil says, none of us are changing our opinions on this but hey, that is the value of variety, eh?

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

It isn't Kitty hate, it is Kitty fatigue. But you are a 5* player so you are not seeing the effect she has at lower levels. It isn't like the Bishop thing where 5* players jam up Shield Sim with their Bishop's and nobody else is affected much really. Kitty is everywhere and all levels and not just with Rocket and it seriously tedious. This coming week is going to be very boring and annoying...

Before kitty it was oml. Difference being Logan didnt need any specific ally. Kitty does. No specials on the board and she is so slow its laughable.

Sure but the truth is that your argument falls down because players are finding the weakest of combinations and still playing Kitty. Did you know that for the longest time the general forum advice was that 3* Dr. Strange is too squishy for PvP? My MMR is sweet enough that I can still fight 3* teams for a while per PvP.  I can tell you how wrong that advice is when you actually play PvP and see how many people play 3* Dr. Strange.

You say Kitty is slow and weak etc etc nobody uses her below the top tiers. All I can report is what I encounter and it doesn't line up with what you are saying.

But hey, this whole thing is just a circular my experience/your experience thing. I believe Kitty is a problem because she makes this game lazy, uninspired and boring at multiple levels - I totally understand if others disagree.

I also have not claimed that lower tiers are not using her. I was pointing out that her and Logan (pre nerf) are different problems. Kitty needs specials on the board preferably quickly. Which means she usually needs partners that can do that. Logan just needed to show up and didnt care who his allies were.

Sure. As Daredevil says, none of us are changing our opinions on this but hey, that is the value of variety, eh?

But I'm also not saying your argument falls down while then attributing statements to you that you didnt make. 

You say kitty is everywhere and at all levels. I believe that.

You say people are finding the weakest combos and still playing kitty. That I would argue they are probably not having much success.

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. Just do not put words in my mouth when you disagree.

DAZ0273

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

It isn't Kitty hate, it is Kitty fatigue. But you are a 5* player so you are not seeing the effect she has at lower levels. It isn't like the Bishop thing where 5* players jam up Shield Sim with their Bishop's and nobody else is affected much really. Kitty is everywhere and all levels and not just with Rocket and it seriously tedious. This coming week is going to be very boring and annoying...

Before kitty it was oml. Difference being Logan didnt need any specific ally. Kitty does. No specials on the board and she is so slow its laughable.

Sure but the truth is that your argument falls down because players are finding the weakest of combinations and still playing Kitty. Did you know that for the longest time the general forum advice was that 3* Dr. Strange is too squishy for PvP? My MMR is sweet enough that I can still fight 3* teams for a while per PvP.  I can tell you how wrong that advice is when you actually play PvP and see how many people play 3* Dr. Strange.

You say Kitty is slow and weak etc etc nobody uses her below the top tiers. All I can report is what I encounter and it doesn't line up with what you are saying.

But hey, this whole thing is just a circular my experience/your experience thing. I believe Kitty is a problem because she makes this game lazy, uninspired and boring at multiple levels - I totally understand if others disagree.

I also have not claimed that lower tiers are not using her. I was pointing out that her and Logan (pre nerf) are different problems. Kitty needs specials on the board preferably quickly. Which means she usually needs partners that can do that. Logan just needed to show up and didnt care who his allies were.

Sure. As Daredevil says, none of us are changing our opinions on this but hey, that is the value of variety, eh?

But I'm also not saying your argument falls down while then attributing statements to you that you didnt make. 

You say kitty is everywhere and at all levels. I believe that.

You say people are finding the weakest combos and still playing kitty. That I would argue they are probably not having much success.

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. Just do not put words in my mouth when you disagree.

Really didn't mean to nor intend to. Apologies for any offence. 

DAZ0273

HoundofShadow said:

Previously, I shared common teams I saw in 4* land once you hit the 1700 points in Shield Simulator. 

Cardusa Kitty

Gritty Medusa

Gritty Bishop

Gritty Juggernaut

Out of 12 teams, 1/3 includes Kitty Pryde. As for PvPs, I saw Kitty with Daken/Blade/R4G before. Out of 10 matches of the above combinations, I see Gritty 97% of the time, Daken 2% and Blade 1%. For my MMR, I see boosted 4* much more frequently than teams with Kitty. kitty with Daken or Blade is not effective because it is easily overcome.

I don't have a problem with Kitty's yellow, but I think her purple power could be powered down a little because it overwrites special tiles at a faster rate than OP/pre-nerfed Gambit. It renders a lot of characters' SAP and CD tiles ineffective.

After 4 Shield Sim matches this is what I have available to fight: Kitty/Cable/R4G. Kitty/Iceman5/Sabretooth - this one does intrigue me. Kitty/R4G/Gamora. Kitty/Black Bolt/ Daken 3* and finally Kitty/Hela/Loki5. I am genuinely intrigued on the thinking on that Iceman & Sabretooth team.

And levels go from 272 to 405 and points worth between 53 and 75 , so if they are aren't achieving some level of success then I dunno how they got to be worth such high points values.

Final edit : The player who has the Iceman/Kitty/Sabretooth team has a level 360 Prof X which is benched in favour of a level 330 Kitty. Prof is 2/2/4 vs Kitty 3/3/1. Is that a better defensive team or what? Why would you play Kitty over Prof X? Neither Ice or Sabretooth make specials do they? Honestly don't get it but this is not out of the ordinary from what I see.

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

It isn't Kitty hate, it is Kitty fatigue. But you are a 5* player so you are not seeing the effect she has at lower levels. It isn't like the Bishop thing where 5* players jam up Shield Sim with their Bishop's and nobody else is affected much really. Kitty is everywhere and all levels and not just with Rocket and it seriously tedious. This coming week is going to be very boring and annoying...

Before kitty it was oml. Difference being Logan didnt need any specific ally. Kitty does. No specials on the board and she is so slow its laughable.

Sure but the truth is that your argument falls down because players are finding the weakest of combinations and still playing Kitty. Did you know that for the longest time the general forum advice was that 3* Dr. Strange is too squishy for PvP? My MMR is sweet enough that I can still fight 3* teams for a while per PvP.  I can tell you how wrong that advice is when you actually play PvP and see how many people play 3* Dr. Strange.

You say Kitty is slow and weak etc etc nobody uses her below the top tiers. All I can report is what I encounter and it doesn't line up with what you are saying.

But hey, this whole thing is just a circular my experience/your experience thing. I believe Kitty is a problem because she makes this game lazy, uninspired and boring at multiple levels - I totally understand if others disagree.

I also have not claimed that lower tiers are not using her. I was pointing out that her and Logan (pre nerf) are different problems. Kitty needs specials on the board preferably quickly. Which means she usually needs partners that can do that. Logan just needed to show up and didnt care who his allies were.

Sure. As Daredevil says, none of us are changing our opinions on this but hey, that is the value of variety, eh?

But I'm also not saying your argument falls down while then attributing statements to you that you didnt make. 

You say kitty is everywhere and at all levels. I believe that.

You say people are finding the weakest combos and still playing kitty. That I would argue they are probably not having much success.

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. Just do not put words in my mouth when you disagree.

Really didn't mean to nor intend to. Apologies for any offence. 

It's all good. I'm not really offended. I totally understand where you are coming from too. I just like my viewpoint to be as clear as I can make it. I struggle with that alot. Words are hard.