Gambit and OML

Arctic_One

With the wave of recent 4* & 5* characters, is there any reason, other than pride, that the devs should not restore these 2 to there former/pre-nerf states? They would be good 5* characters now but neirher overpowered.

Vhailorx

Oml should never have been nerfed to begin with. 

Original gambit would still be op, I think, though not as much as he was in his prime  gritty + bishop could probably challenge him alone pretty well. But bishop or worthy+ Gambit would probably be fine against gritty.  You only have survive the first few turns to stun an opponent and overwrite the strikes.

ThaRoadWarrior

Storm/Bolt/Gambit (original) would be a wild team now i think. And I really don't think Gritty would hold up with Gambit's purple; I think bringing back Original Flavor Gambit would be interesting to see, but everyone who rage sold their old ones might revolt in the face of a reversion on that nerf. I agree that OML would probably be just fine, and in fact might sit pretty nicely next to Kitty.

Skrimgeour

I always thought the OML nerf was because with him the majority (not even just the racers who would be using others) could just avoid using health packs. I know I rarely used them when used him)

Since the sale of Health packs is a prime way to monetize, out came the nerf. And that’s why I think he will never be unnerfed. 

And I can also imagine the screams from the people that sold him post nerf.  

Mind you he was my first 5* so always had a special place on my heart. 

Skrimgeour 

Vhailorx

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Storm/Bolt/Gambit (original) would be a wild team now i think. And I really don't think Gritty would hold up with Gambit's purple; I think bringing back Original Flavor Gambit would be interesting to see, but everyone who rage sold their old ones might revolt in the face of a reversion on that nerf. I agree that OML would probably be just fine, and in fact might sit pretty nicely next to Kitty.

Gritty would lose to Gambit almost every time.  But it would hurt if the tiles were poorly placed.

But gritty + bishop would likely beat Gambit most of the time, as stun was always the best option against Gambit and bishop in 5* land is a near instant stun.  So the real question is who reliably gets off the first stun in a Gambit + bishop v. Gritty + bishop match?

Warbringa

Well if you played your cards right, old Gambit would just murder Bishop with his first purple, if you could avoid making matches triggering the opposing Bishop, and you would then overwrite Gritty tiles too.  Question is for me, who would be your third on the Gambit/Bishop match?  Maybe Vulture to just destroy all the Gritty tiles with the blue being generated and also his matches won't trigger Bishop?

It would be hard though to collect enough purple with triggering opposing Bishop.  It would get into the whole, whose Bishop fires first ....(sigh).

Vhailorx

Best third for restored Gambit (+bishop)?  Probably 5* storm or bb, as before.  7ap for 15 damage and a bit of boardshake would still be strong.  another blue stunner would also be good, just in case bishop falls quickly.  So 5* ice or strange?

4* options against gritty might be sabertooth?  His passive is just a great way to deal with gritty tiles quickly. And Iceman of course for the added stun.

ThaRoadWarrior

If Wakanda Forever! worked properly with Gambit's Red, I'd say Okoye even with her red being locked out. But even on second firing it doesn't stack.

Kolence

ThaRoadWarrior said:

If Wakanda Forever! worked properly with Gambit's Red, I'd say Okoye even with her red being locked out. But even on second firing it doesn't stack.

Last time I checked, 5* Gambit's red was working with Okoye, but 3* Gambit's wasn't. 

T_REZ5000

IMO restoring Gambit to his first “nerf” minus the AP drain would be fine.  

Don’t understand why OML saving on health packs would be an issue for revenue considering thorkoye does the same and is much faster.

DAZ0273

T_REZ5000 said:

IMO restoring Gambit to his first “nerf” minus the AP drain would be fine.  

Don’t understand why OML saving on health packs would be an issue for revenue considering thorkoye does the same and is much faster.

OML saved on health packs for players at ALL levels, not just top tiers. You had a 2 yellow Wolverine and you could PvP for ages at 3* level and below as he would also generally tank a lot of colours and keep your 3's safe - I used to run IM40/Thor/OML 0/2/0 and that team could wreck protected by Wolvie and his constant healing.

T_REZ5000

DAZ0273 said:

T_REZ5000 said:

IMO restoring Gambit to his first “nerf” minus the AP drain would be fine.  

Don’t understand why OML saving on health packs would be an issue for revenue considering thorkoye does the same and is much faster.

OML saved on health packs for players at ALL levels, not just top tiers. You had a 2 yellow Wolverine and you could PvP for ages at 3* level and below as he would also generally tank a lot of colours and keep your 3's safe - I used to run IM40/Thor/OML 0/2/0 and that team could wreck protected by Wolvie and his constant healing.

Ahh, didn’t see it from that point of view.  Haven’t been a 3* player since well before 5*s existed.

DAZ0273

T_REZ5000 said:

DAZ0273 said:

T_REZ5000 said:

IMO restoring Gambit to his first “nerf” minus the AP drain would be fine.  

Don’t understand why OML saving on health packs would be an issue for revenue considering thorkoye does the same and is much faster.

OML saved on health packs for players at ALL levels, not just top tiers. You had a 2 yellow Wolverine and you could PvP for ages at 3* level and below as he would also generally tank a lot of colours and keep your 3's safe - I used to run IM40/Thor/OML 0/2/0 and that team could wreck protected by Wolvie and his constant healing.

Ahh, didn’t see it from that point of view.  Haven’t been a 3* player since well before 5*s existed.

Ha! Completely understandable. I tend to feel that how much revenue is actually generated from health pack use probably isn't as high as we think but OML was a big help in that respect. Still, I would be happy to see him return unnerfed, Gambit too but only if I can finally get a black cover!

Sm0keyJ0e

Every time I see one of these threads it just reminds me how clueless the designers are as to how to rebalance a character the way other games do so successfully. There is no rebalance, there's just "destroy".

Small part of me thinks they do this on purpose so they can release whatever garbage/broken toon they want knowing the masses will be skittish about one of their "rebalances".

ThaRoadWarrior

Kolence said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

If Wakanda Forever! worked properly with Gambit's Red, I'd say Okoye even with her red being locked out. But even on second firing it doesn't stack.

Last time I checked, 5* Gambit's red was working with Okoye, but 3* Gambit's wasn't. 

Oh really? I’ll have to check that out. My gambit is pretty under covered And Unleveled  though, so I never use him unless required. I know WF! Interactions seem to be per-character, so we’ve identified loads of counter-intuitive edge cases.

bluewolf

The assumption that OML was nerfed because he saved on health pack usage is one that I have always questioned.

The stated reason was that he was seeing high utilization.  While the top players had moved on from OML, I think it's true that in lower tiers people used him all the time once they had the right covers.

That's a problem for variety (keeping people interested in the game), as well as making you the player less interested in newer toons that are less useful (hurts sales etc).

Also, when OML was nerfed there were a lot fewer 5's in the game so seeing one used a lot probably stood out a bit more.

I am on board with reversing OML.  Probably better to leave Gambit nerfed (although he was over-nerfed as usual) but it's all academic as I don't see them touching either one ever again.

Vhailorx

Sm0keyJ0e said:

Every time I see one of these threads it just reminds me how clueless the designers are as to how to rebalance a character the way other games do so successfully. There is no rebalance, there's just "destroy".

Small part of me thinks they do this on purpose so they can release whatever garbage/broken toon they want knowing the masses will be skittish about one of their "rebalances".

It IS on purpose.  Reworking characters is much less profitable than designing new ones.  So the last thing Demi wants is to rework someone and then have to do it over again, wasting 2x as much dev time.  So they need everything into the ground to make sure the problem is resolved.

They have been WAY over the mark several times.  Sentry, xfw, OML, and Gambit were all borderline trash after their nerfs. 

The changes to gambit's black were devastating.  If he had both his original red and purple powers, but his new black, then I think he would be a solid tier 2 5*.  Personally, I would have left his is red as it was.  And I would have bumped up the damage on his purple a bit, and left the full special tile overwrite, but only at 5 covers (so it can only overwrite SAP tiles at lower covers).  That would force players to choose between having two pretty solid active powers, but limited self acceleration, or choosing to focus on red for fast offense/board shake or purple for board control/defense, but having more so to work with.

That would leave him as an effective, but not dominant 5*.

ThaRoadWarrior

It never seems to be a number tweak on these things, it’s always a scorched earth reconstruction. Seems like just playing with damage or AP gain numbers would be enough.

MegaBee

There has to be a breakdown of all the rebalances that have been done somewhere on the forum.

DAZ0273

blankcanvas said:

Spot on @bluewolf. Usage stats supposedly dictated the OML nerf. They could easily reverse now as he's nowhere near the meta usage when compared to the likes of gritty, thorkoye, bishop, juggs and sabretooth.

Let's be honest (and no this is not a call for a nerf!) I suspect Kitty easily comes close to if not equals use across ALL tiers as much as OML did. OML wasn't really much of a threat on defence, not like Kitty is. They share that yellow in common too, lol!

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

blankcanvas said:

Spot on @bluewolf. Usage stats supposedly dictated the OML nerf. They could easily reverse now as he's nowhere near the meta usage when compared to the likes of gritty, thorkoye, bishop, juggs and sabretooth.

Let's be honest (and no this is not a call for a nerf!) I suspect Kitty easily comes close to if not equals use across ALL tiers as much as OML did. OML wasn't really much of a threat on defence, not like Kitty is. They share that yellow in common too, lol!

Logans pre nerf sustain far outweighs kitties buffing for his use. You could team him with any character you wanted. Kitty needs allies with specials.

If they would revert Logan at 5 covers but reduce his yellow at one or two covers he would be fine. As he is I still use him tons. Kitty, logan, iceman is very effective and fun in 5* land.