Who should be next in line for balancing? v2

Unknown

Firstly, I'm not a fan of nerfs in general unless the character or move is completely, over-the-top overpowered. Characters like Thor are OP compared to others, but they're not indestructable and can be taken down quickly with the right characters. I had my 141 Thor burst down in no time by a 141 Patch when he hit The Best There Is. Yes Thor is strong, but he doesn't need nerfing IMO.

Here are the changes I would personally make.....

4*

Baglady - Reduce the AP cost of her yellow and blue powers, and increase the damage her green does.
X-Farce - Needs a complete rework IMO. When he's outclassed by 2* Wolvie it's time to go back to the drawing board.

3*

BWGS - Give her a bit more HP, reduce green to 17 AP at max, and reduce the red cost to 12 at max. Red does nowhere near enough damage to warrant that kind of cost.
Daredevil - Give him one active attack power and let him choose the location of his traps. He might be blind but I'm pretty sure he'd have an idea where he places them.
Doom - Give him a third power. Make it a strike tile power for great synergy with his attack tiles.
IM40 - Reduce the AP cost of his blue power to 14-16 AP, and get rid of the AP drain from both his red and blue powers. He'd be a front line damage dealer then similar to Thor.
Loki - Also needs a third power. Make it an illusion themed trap tile where he can choose the location of the trap. That would fit the theme of his character and allow him to deal some damage.
cMags - Increase the cost of his blue by 1-2 AP, and increase the cost of his red to at least 5 AP. Make the red do more damage to offset the fact it can't be spammed any more. His purple is powerful but it's rare to get max damage out of it, so can stay unchanged.
Psylocke - Reduce the amount of AP stolen, but tweak the power. If there isn't enough AP in the enemy's largest colour pool, steal the additional AP from other colours. It would make the power more useful, especially as it relies on a countdown tile.
Rags - Another who needs a third power. As he's a clone of Thor, perhaps a lightning based power, but more like Storm's where it destroys tiles rather than changing the colour of them.

2*

OBW - I know I said I'm not a fan of nerfs, but OBW is definitely in need of a little work. Maybe reduce the effectiveness of her AP stealing, or increase the AP cost. The fact she is used alongside so many 141 characters shows just how OP she is.
Bullseye - Needs a third power.
Cap America - His red could do with a damage increase to make him a more useful 2* character.
Daken - Needs a third power, perhaps just copy the blue power from Lazy Daken and make it inline with other 2* powers.
M Hawkeye - The best archer in the world can't select where his countdown tiles go? That simple change would make him a very useful 2* character.
Moonstone - Gravity Warp should always do damage, and Control Shift needs an AP reduction.
Bag-Man - He's Bag-Man, need I say more?

That's a fair number of characters who need changing but I think most of those changes are sensible and easy to implement. It would give players more variety in the characters they use and many more characters would be useful in different situations.

Unknown

3rd skill for Loki, Rags, Doom
XF Wolvy needs a buff, just bringing the strike tile damage in line with other heroes would be ok for the start ( come on it's 4 months now )
OBW needs a nerf, I know that's unpopular but she's beats any other ** by a margin, that can't be justified
Daredevil needs a rework, 3 trap skills on the same hero is just silly
IM40 needs a buff, he wasn't really good when he came out but now is complete trash in comparison to others in his weight class( LT, BP, Shieldbro )
GSBW needs a big buff or rework

Unknown

Ya know what? I was kinda wantin to hear some1 who thinks lazy Thor is balanced and doesn't need brought down a bit. Kind of curious as to their logic in that decision.

Unknown

I think the community as a whole agrees on most of the changes need. Adding third powers could be a project for the devs, but adjusting the ap required for a lot of characters is very simple. When ever they get around to changing a character the do so much when so little is required. I feel like in one day they could tweak 10 players and make the game a lot more diverse. But in reality it will probabaly be months of waiting for cmags to become unusable and these other characters stay unchanged. It's a bummer, because I feel like there are a lot of good easy suggestions here. I never even though about how much fun DD could be before reading this thread.

Unknown

I honestly don't think that OBW is op at all, she's fairly balanced imo.

It's just she is used allot because the other options besides herself are trash
or are to difficult to acquire (aka The Hood, spiderman, Falcon)

If D3 would actually buff/rework the support characters, made them easier to get;
or even just created better Support characters and stop making crazy amounts of characters that have main color focuses like RED it would help.

Also introducing character should I feel be a big PVE event and they should happen farther down the line. When it's done right you get to see cool events like Hulk
rather then some crazy PVP tourney that requires copious amounts of time and babysitting. That should be left to people that want to acquire more covers for the character they already have.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Ya know what? I was kinda wantin to hear some1 who thinks lazy Thor is balanced and doesn't need brought down a bit. Kind of curious as to their logic in that decision.

Because he is Thor, he's a freakin' God!!!! Of course he should stomp on us puny humans.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Ya know what? I was kinda wantin to hear some1 who thinks lazy Thor is balanced and doesn't need brought down a bit. Kind of curious as to their logic in that decision.

Speaking personally, I would bring him down a bit, but there's a difference in category between Spidey and LazyThor

On the top of the list there's characters that simply must be redone for the health of the game: old Rags, old Spidey, cMags, etc
Then there's characters who need rebalanced because they have no use: Daredevil, Loki, X-Force, etc
Finally, there's characters who aren't in line with the power levels of other characters but only by a matter of degree; they don't give effortless wins on offense and can be handled on defense: LazyThor, OBW, etc

The third category is one I'm much less concerned about than the first two

Unknown

MikeHock wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Ya know what? I was kinda wantin to hear some1 who thinks lazy Thor is balanced and doesn't need brought down a bit. Kind of curious as to their logic in that decision.

Because he is Thor, he's a freakin' God!!!! Of course he should stomp on us puny humans.

Then what should we call rags and Loki? Lmao.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

MikeHock wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Ya know what? I was kinda wantin to hear some1 who thinks lazy Thor is balanced and doesn't need brought down a bit. Kind of curious as to their logic in that decision.

Because he is Thor, he's a freakin' God!!!! Of course he should stomp on us puny humans.

Then what should we call rags and Loki? Lmao.

Isn't Ragnarok a **** copy of Thor produced by Oscorp? I wouldn't put him in god group.

Unknown

KevinMark wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

MikeHock wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Ya know what? I was kinda wantin to hear some1 who thinks lazy Thor is balanced and doesn't need brought down a bit. Kind of curious as to their logic in that decision.

Because he is Thor, he's a freakin' God!!!! Of course he should stomp on us puny humans.

Then what should we call rags and Loki? Lmao.

Isn't Ragnarok a tinykitty copy of Thor produced by Oscorp? I wouldn't put him in god group.

We shall dub him "godlike" since he does have godlike powers after all.

Unknown

It could be argued that Thor isn't broken at least. Just heads and shoulders above everyone else.

If instead of nerfing Thor, everyone else was buffed, I could live with that just fine.

But yeah, just knock off a few points of damage off yellow and green. Very small adjustment.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

It could be argued that Thor isn't broken at least. Just heads and shoulders above everyone else.

If instead of nerfing Thor, everyone else was buffed, I could live with that just fine.

But yeah, just knock off a few points of damage off yellow and green. Very small adjustment.

I would say knock off 600-1000 health.
Take about 500 damage off his yellow.
Take about 300-400 damage off his green to target and to team.

Dayv

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Some of this is already covered in the color discussion thread.

Some character's could have their least popular color changed. For example, the Hulk's red could be changed.

Indestructible - Purple Passive
The Hulk is dangerous to hit. When damaged for over 5% of his health, a random basic Purple tile becomes a 3 turn Countdown tile. For each Purple AP, 1% of the damage received is reflected back, and Hulk heals the same amount as he shrugs it off.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: 2% reflected and healed per purple AP. Level 3: Countdown timer reduced to 2. Level 4: 3% reflected and healed. Level 5: 4% reflected and healed.

At level 5, if Hulk collects 25 Purple, then he could get countdown timers which eventually reflected and healed 100% of all major attacks -- unless the countdown tiles are removed. With 3AP, it would be 12% healed/reflected. This also feeds into the "strongest there is" theme for the Hulk, and matches well with the Anger power.

Two passives with the same triggering condition on the same character?

Yeeeeeah, I'm gonna go with "no" on that.

Unknown

DayvBang wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Some of this is already covered in the color discussion thread.

Some character's could have their least popular color changed. For example, the Hulk's red could be changed.

Indestructible - Purple Passive
The Hulk is dangerous to hit. When damaged for over 5% of his health, a random basic Purple tile becomes a 3 turn Countdown tile. For each Purple AP, 1% of the damage received is reflected back, and Hulk heals the same amount as he shrugs it off.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: 2% reflected and healed per purple AP. Level 3: Countdown timer reduced to 2. Level 4: 3% reflected and healed. Level 5: 4% reflected and healed.

At level 5, if Hulk collects 25 Purple, then he could get countdown timers which eventually reflected and healed 100% of all major attacks -- unless the countdown tiles are removed. With 3AP, it would be 12% healed/reflected. This also feeds into the "strongest there is" theme for the Hulk, and matches well with the Anger power.

Two passives with the same triggering condition on the same character?

Yeeeeeah, I'm gonna go with "no" on that.

We did happen to discuss hulk a little in alliance chat today.
We decided he does need balancing.
His green matches should have highest damage on game for green.
Why? Because he's the hulk. Duh.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Ya know what? I was kinda wantin to hear some1 who thinks lazy Thor is balanced and doesn't need brought down a bit. Kind of curious as to their logic in that decision.

If that's in relation to me saying that I don't believe he's too OP - it's not that I think he's completely balanced, because he's not. Thor is a very powerful character. However, he isn't broken to me simply because he can be countered. You can deny him AP by using OBW or The Hood, or by simply matching away green and yellow yourself. There are other powerful characters like Patch and cMags who can take him down pretty much in one shot if the board falls nicely.

In a game like MPQ we're always going to get some characters who are more powerful than others. If anyone was roughly on a par with everyone else, I'd find it pretty boring, as it would just be like different skins for the same characters. Thor is certainly one of the best characters in the game, but I don't think he's broken and in need of a nerf. I can understand why others may disagree though.

Unknown

I've had this discussion briefly with the devs at PAX, I'm sorry to disappoint but it seems like they're fine with new characters being stupidly strong and older ones being obsolete, case in point with IM40 - they think he's fine. For costing more and doing less than newer characters, while also being at equal health pools (or less, coughThor/Sentrycough). However, that won't stop me from posting my suggestions:

FIRST AND FOREMOST: The best design decision a dev can make with the way things are right now is forcing players into a tough decision of "I don't know which covers to max out!". Amazing examples of this are Punisher, Magneto, Patch, Falcon, etc. The worst examples in the game of this are Black Panther, LThor, Hood, etc, where you go "Gee I want <X> power always at 5 and there's a 99% chance I'll pick another power to push to 5". People need to be challenged to think and provide more variation in their builds, right now most of the characters basically say "Durr push <X> to 5 with every build, then pick another one to go to 5 because the third power is awful". Daredevil, IM40, and Psylocke suffer immensely from this syndrome.

DAREDEVIL:
Allow trap tiles to exist on the same tile as other tile types. It makes zero sense as to why you'd bother making the trap tile graphic only on the extremities of the tile and not do this - there's nothing preventing it visually, and it basically makes an already weak / risky character even weaker now that 3* Daken is live.

IM40:
Iron Man often has one of the most destructive arsenals in Marvel built into him - he needs to feel like it. He's built suits that specifically take down Thor and Hulk purely to counter them. He really needs to feel like the threat he is - Recharge is fine (although he'd be even more fine if his yellow cost wasn't scaling so high, I feel 6/8/10/12/14 should be reworked to 6/7/8/9/10). His damage needs to be increased waaay more - as it is he's only gaining 10% in damage from some covers. Are you kidding me? That's a complete joke if I ever saw it, fix this.

GSBW:
This is one of the stupidest developer flops I've ever seen. When Natasha was in the grey suit, she was the Ruskie variant of Captain America. As such, she should reflect it! Her health pool being that laughably low really needs to be fixed, she should be able to take a severe beating - not be a complete glass cannon. She literally needs her health nearly doubled for her to be pushed into viability, right now she isn't living nearly long enough on defense to get her sniper rifle off, but honestly if she were at a higher health threshold, she'd pretty much be fine.

Doctor Doom, Loki, and Ragnarok:
Give them a third power that pushes them in a very new direction. Give Doom a direct damage ability. Give Loki something that actually scales with levels. Give Ragnarok a support or yet another destructive ability (something that, say, destroys 4 yellow tiles without AP gain and deals frontloaded damage?) He could scream control if his current arsenal weren't so god awful. Make it 6 yellow to destroy more yellow and you'll have yourself a cascade machine! Until they get a third power, they're floppy turds outside of their LRs and featured tournaments... except Loki, he's always bad in PvP.

X-Force
Holy **** are you serious how is he still this bad are the devs even trying? I can't begin to even fathom how awful he is, given he's a tankier and lower damaging version of Patch who loses out in the long term on his healing. Not to mention how Nick Fury is being pushed out. X-Force needs an overhaul and he needs it now, stop sitting around with your thumb up your derriere with regards to rebalancing him and get around to it - Invisible Woman is amazing, her only issue is that on defense she's awful because anyone with a cheaper green or blue will use it.. and render her obsolete. She's hard to build a team around that will use her right - X-Force won't quite have that issue, as you can just make him have the primary red and green abilities, while letting supports like Hood and Black Panther work alongside him. I won't even make a suggestion here, you could take Wolverine in so many directions and you're letting him sit and stagnate as one of the biggest jokes in the game - a 4* who deals less damage than his 2* variant.

That's really all I have to say. Most characters in the game I'm fine with, although I do feel newer characters are pushing it a bit over the top - LThor, Black Panther, Captain America, and Sentry could all do with toning down (Sentry could do with a complete overhaul honestly, if he comes out as-is I'm done), and other people in the thread have touched on that fact repeatedly. I'm hoping to see older characters brought on par with newer ones - when IM40 gets his blue off, you should be terrified, not 'Ooph, my team got slapped, well at least he just lost a lot of his AP'. It needs something such as far higher damage (3.5-4k party wide damage), and/or a 4-5 turn team-wide stun for 20AP + 2 of other colors. It sounds like a lot, but take a moment and actually consider how expensive the skill is. Things like this are what I'd like to see! Hopefully the devs get their act together and stop pushing the game in the worst possible direction, as they have been for a few months now.

Unknown

@kama

Thanks for the great post! Lots of good points and suggestions. I especially like the daredevil 1 about traps being on strike tiles and stuff.

It is easy to see the recent power creep. It makes people want to spend on the new characters because they are so overpowered but in turn this is gonna hurt the game. All 2*'s should be in the same generalized power level as other 2*'s. 3*'s all in a bit better power level. 4*'s should be the best. I feel kinda silly even having to write that. Seems like the most obvious thing. They don't care about the 4*'s because they make the most off their 3*'s.

The thing is, new 3* don't have to be OP to make us want them. Sure, having really strong characters is awesome. But we want all our 3*'s awesome. Especially with the death of the spider roster variety is becoming increasingly important. With 1/2 our roster **** that so much has went into it can get depressing at times. The reason we will keep buying new characters is because they are good 3* characters that give us new mechanics, a new color combo, support abilities on red green etc etc and attacks on support colors, because it's 1 of our favorite characters. I can think of tons of reasons why I would love to buy a new balanced character without them having to be OP. I did the poll a while back with the most wanted characters. Including gambit or nightcrawler or 1 of those other high finishers I'm sure would pull in some revenue.

I really hope a lot of people speak out against this power creep because I personally see it as a bad direction for the game. The power creep should be by implementing a 4* every couple months to create a gradual creep. For this to happen they have to be better than 2*'s which wolvie isn't. IW only would fall into the average 3* category. I use her 230 all the time. I'll take punisher of lazy Thor or many others any day.

TLDR: please stop letting these characters sit as relics. Please give them the buffs they deserve and stop this power creep before it sucks away the rest of the fun. Pleeeease!!!!!