Who should be next in line for balancing? v2

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Yeah, back to the topic of characters that actually need balancing. Haha!
I still think daredevil would be much more fun of his skills were as is except all 3 would randomly be placed on any tiles. That would make him more fun to play against and make him more useful.

Very true, but it still leaves him lacking against goon, but it'd be a major step in the right direction and would definitely make me skip him in PvP.

HairyDave

Psykopathic wrote:

moonstone / bagman - just ****?

I wouldn't go lumping those two together.

Moonstone actually has an (arguably) useful skill or two and in my opinion doesn't need a lot of tweaking to make her useful:
Gravity Warp - either needs to do at least some damage all the time as a bonus or have some direct control over which tile gets moved.
Photon Blast - fine as it is
Control Shift - either reduce the cost to something a little more reasonable (e.g. 12-14) or be able to select the CD to take over.

TL/DR version: make em cheaper or lose the randomness

Bagman is just all broke

M1Lance

Wolverine (xforce) - Needs major work as he is a 4* character with 1* powers even at max level
Spiderman (classic) - Needs to be rebuffed as his only use is for his semi-ok healing ability, purple is worse than bullseye and blue is worse than MBW (1 and 2 star characters)
IM40 - Red and blue need to remove the AP drains

Unknown

Putting trap on a random color would weaken Daredevil, not make him more powerful. Ambush, probably his best ability, is on red which is one of the more valuable estate, and Radar Sense is also on a premium tile if you're in desert/forest (hard to imagine anyone would fight on that map if they don't plan on using Oasis/Thorned Rose). Equalizer not so much but it's not that good anyway. I don't know where people get these fairy tales of people bringing out Daken 2* to counter your level 141 Daredevil's Ambush. Prior to lazy Daken, there is not a single character that can effectively get rid of Ambush that was at all competitive at the top tier, so if people actually brought out Doom or Wolverine 2* or whatever to deal with your hypothetical level 141 Daredevil, he's already done his job. In reality nobody uses Daredevil anyway and because of that, nobody is going to actually have to worry about him. For PvE, only Daken can deal with Daredevil effectively in the DA lineup, and with Daken nerfed in general it's no longer the case where Daken nodes are the only one that matter (due to their difficulty).

Now does that mean you should go and level up Daredevil? No, he's still not very good in general, but the placement of his trap is not the issue here. It's more of an opportunity cost as he is a good second string 3* but why level him up when there are at least 8 first string 3*s out there?

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

soenottelling wrote:

Red-massive damage,mild board control.
Blue: stuns and heavy ap/board control
Green: above average damage and strike tiles.
Black: average damage and attack tiles
Purple: defensive- tiles and ap stealing.
Yellow: kinda all.over the place. Hood's is board control, bp is strike.tiles, thor is massive damage/board control, its also self.healing for wolvie/patch, and def tiles. Fury's avenged assemble color being yellow is not a misnomer.imo. yellow is the wilder joker color that does what they need a skill to do but don't want to fit elsewhere.

There are exceptions to all of these though so I wouldn't call any of them rules or think of limiting any colors to certain types of skills.

Mag c purple
Loki black
Hulk / rags / storm c green
OBW blue.
Mag c blue technically sposed to be defense.

Red is prolly most stereotypical. Prolly a lot more examples but those are just a few off the top of my head.

-Actually, mag's purple has board control...its just also does damage. Regardless, it is a bit of a misnomer. Fhena gain, mags is kinda in general. Doesn't use his top 3 colors, low ap move, his red breaks the red mold and does pitiful damage and shakes the board (using.thier guidelines ..which they have stated they have a rough form.of for each color...it SHOULD be green).
-Obw blue is a tile control move, countdown tiles. The healing is just what it became used for. Only 2 heals in the game, and the other is yellow, which is the wild card color.
-I did forget to add "tile destroy" to green though. Hulk, rags, both storm, Juggs..even punisher.

-as for Loki's black, there definently are a few little misnomers, but they mostly come from either A. Old characters and/or B. Due to trying to give a character a move that fits thier color scheme.

So, while the riles aren't part of a constitution or anything, they are rough guidelines. And ice has said as much that there are certain types of moves they try to link to certain colors (its the reason why ht had a green instead of a yellow supposedly for one example)

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Putting trap on a random color would weaken Daredevil, not make him more powerful. Ambush, probably his best ability, is on red which is one of the more valuable estate, and Radar Sense is also on a premium tile if you're in desert/forest (hard to imagine anyone would fight on that map if they don't plan on using Oasis/Thorned Rose). Equalizer not so much but it's not that good anyway. I don't know where people get these fairy tales of people bringing out Daken 2* to counter your level 141 Daredevil's Ambush. Prior to lazy Daken, there is not a single character that can effectively get rid of Ambush that was at all competitive at the top tier, so if people actually brought out Doom or Wolverine 2* or whatever to deal with your hypothetical level 141 Daredevil, he's already done his job. In reality nobody uses Daredevil anyway and because of that, nobody is going to actually have to worry about him. For PvE, only Daken can deal with Daredevil effectively in the DA lineup, and with Daken nerfed in general it's no longer the case where Daken nodes are the only one that matter (due to their difficulty).

Now does that mean you should go and level up Daredevil? No, he's still not very good in general, but the placement of his trap is not the issue here. It's more of an opportunity cost as he is a good second string 3* but why level him up when there are at least 8 first string 3*s out there?

If you go in with a good rainbow team against daredevil and he uses his red. You know it's on red so you just match green or black or whatever else you need. BP and LThor basically avoid him with their good colors. If you use him and put his red tile out and it's on the only red match possible and you need red ap you basucally waste it or keep yourself from gathering it.

If all 3 skills were random you couldn't avoid the colors. You could have 4-5 traps out on multiple colors and when 1 springs you get surprised with what hits you. Are you gonna get taken down? Lose some ap? Seems much more exciting to me.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Putting trap on a random color would weaken Daredevil, not make him more powerful. Ambush, probably his best ability, is on red which is one of the more valuable estate, and Radar Sense is also on a premium tile if you're in desert/forest (hard to imagine anyone would fight on that map if they don't plan on using Oasis/Thorned Rose). Equalizer not so much but it's not that good anyway. I don't know where people get these fairy tales of people bringing out Daken 2* to counter your level 141 Daredevil's Ambush. Prior to lazy Daken, there is not a single character that can effectively get rid of Ambush that was at all competitive at the top tier, so if people actually brought out Doom or Wolverine 2* or whatever to deal with your hypothetical level 141 Daredevil, he's already done his job. In reality nobody uses Daredevil anyway and because of that, nobody is going to actually have to worry about him. For PvE, only Daken can deal with Daredevil effectively in the DA lineup, and with Daken nerfed in general it's no longer the case where Daken nodes are the only one that matter (due to their difficulty).

Now does that mean you should go and level up Daredevil? No, he's still not very good in general, but the placement of his trap is not the issue here. It's more of an opportunity cost as he is a good second string 3* but why level him up when there are at least 8 first string 3*s out there?

Red is Valuable? Everybody except LazyCap can quite comfortably avoid red tiles entirely. Similarly, Oasis/Rose are luxuries, once you see the notification that he's used Radar Sense avoiding environmental tiles doesn't cost you much. So the only time either of those traps will be set off is through cascades. His BLUE is his MOST likely to be activated trap (but it kind of sucks, so it's not so dangerous).

And EVERY competitive character is extremely effective at getting rid of DD's traps, what are you smoking? Thor, Hulk, Patch, Mags, Punisher, Hood, even GSBW and Human Torch have extremely good abilities that are extremely good at eliminating Ambush tiles

Now, If Ambush was on GREEN, where all the best abilities live and lots of tiles get generated, it could be much more deadly

Unknown

gamar wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Putting trap on a random color would weaken Daredevil, not make him more powerful. Ambush, probably his best ability, is on red which is one of the more valuable estate, and Radar Sense is also on a premium tile if you're in desert/forest (hard to imagine anyone would fight on that map if they don't plan on using Oasis/Thorned Rose). Equalizer not so much but it's not that good anyway. I don't know where people get these fairy tales of people bringing out Daken 2* to counter your level 141 Daredevil's Ambush. Prior to lazy Daken, there is not a single character that can effectively get rid of Ambush that was at all competitive at the top tier, so if people actually brought out Doom or Wolverine 2* or whatever to deal with your hypothetical level 141 Daredevil, he's already done his job. In reality nobody uses Daredevil anyway and because of that, nobody is going to actually have to worry about him. For PvE, only Daken can deal with Daredevil effectively in the DA lineup, and with Daken nerfed in general it's no longer the case where Daken nodes are the only one that matter (due to their difficulty).

Now does that mean you should go and level up Daredevil? No, he's still not very good in general, but the placement of his trap is not the issue here. It's more of an opportunity cost as he is a good second string 3* but why level him up when there are at least 8 first string 3*s out there?

Red is Valuable? Everybody except LazyCap can quite comfortably avoid red tiles entirely. Similarly, Oasis/Rose are luxuries, once you see the notification that he's used Radar Sense avoiding environmental tiles doesn't cost you much. So the only time either of those traps will be set off is through cascades. His BLUE is his MOST likely to be activated trap (but it kind of sucks, so it's not so dangerous).

And EVERY competitive character is extremely effective at getting rid of DD's traps, what are you smoking? Thor, Hulk, Patch, Mags, Punisher, Hood, even GSBW and Human Torch have extremely good abilities that are extremely good at eliminating Ambush tiles

Now, If Ambush was on GREEN, where all the best abilities live and lots of tiles get generated, it could be much more deadly

Especially if it's on green and you didn't know it. Most characters attacks are very direct and unavoidable. Randomization at least makes them less avoidable and scarier to go up against.

Unknown

I actually like DD. The main reason I had disinterest with him at launch was Spidey colour overlap and stunlock negates enemy matching. When news of the Spidey nerf came, I gave him more serious thought... until gold Daken came.

I would just remove the ability for strike tiles to disable traps or be overwritten by any other means. Tile destruction should be the only way imo. I suppose also reduce the cost of his radar sense to 7 like his other abilities and scale back the AP steal.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

bwgs - the glass cannon. Its really nice that her pink feeds her green so well but lets face it, her red sucks and her green is so expensive the AI getting it off is a nearly unwitnessed event. The AI can get the pink off but cant use it properly and on top of all that she can be broke like a twig. Help her out guys, come on, just a little something to put her on par.

I agree with everything u said except for this. I'm a super heavy user of GSBW, i've build every other character as a support for her and i think her green and purple are perfect as it is. Her red skill is the only one that needs a rework.

Unknown

Pucco wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

bwgs - the glass cannon. Its really nice that her pink feeds her green so well but lets face it, her red sucks and her green is so expensive the AI getting it off is a nearly unwitnessed event. The AI can get the pink off but cant use it properly and on top of all that she can be broke like a twig. Help her out guys, come on, just a little something to put her on par.

I agree with everything u said except for this. I'm a super heavy user of GSBW, i've build every other character as a support for her and i think her green and purple are perfect as it is. Her red skill is the only one that needs a rework.

I absolutely agree. I think her red needs a decent bump to make it a viable option. Maybe more like the hoods yellow. Wouldn't that be interesting. Also a health bump to around 5400-5700 probably. I can't remember what her max is off top of my head but I know it's pretty low.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Pucco wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

bwgs - the glass cannon. Its really nice that her pink feeds her green so well but lets face it, her red sucks and her green is so expensive the AI getting it off is a nearly unwitnessed event. The AI can get the pink off but cant use it properly and on top of all that she can be broke like a twig. Help her out guys, come on, just a little something to put her on par.

I agree with everything u said except for this. I'm a super heavy user of GSBW, i've build every other character as a support for her and i think her green and purple are perfect as it is. Her red skill is the only one that needs a rework.

I absolutely agree. I think her red needs a decent bump to make it a viable option. Maybe more like the hoods yellow. Wouldn't that be interesting. Also a health bump to around 5400-5700 probably. I can't remember what her max is off top of my head but I know it's pretty low.

In situations where she had only red ability in my lineup, i found her red ability to be very useful. In fact, if they dropped it to 8 AP, removed added damage, i think shed be op. Being able to carve out those tiles is very useful

Unknown

Bugpop wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Pucco wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

bwgs - the glass cannon. Its really nice that her pink feeds her green so well but lets face it, her red sucks and her green is so expensive the AI getting it off is a nearly unwitnessed event. The AI can get the pink off but cant use it properly and on top of all that she can be broke like a twig. Help her out guys, come on, just a little something to put her on par.

I agree with everything u said except for this. I'm a super heavy user of GSBW, i've build every other character as a support for her and i think her green and purple are perfect as it is. Her red skill is the only one that needs a rework.

I absolutely agree. I think her red needs a decent bump to make it a viable option. Maybe more like the hoods yellow. Wouldn't that be interesting. Also a health bump to around 5400-5700 probably. I can't remember what her max is off top of my head but I know it's pretty low.

In situations where she had only red ability in my lineup, i found her red ability to be very useful. In fact, if they dropped it to 8 AP, removed added damage, i think shed be op. Being able to carve out those tiles is very useful

I couldn't see her as viable enough to level by the time I got enough covers for her. It just seemed lackluster to me.
So do you think she's fine as is? Or if not what tweaks do you think need made?

Unknown

She is right where she needs to be, using the power level of recently released characters as a comparison.

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

If you go in with a good rainbow team against daredevil and he uses his red. You know it's on red so you just match green or black or whatever else you need. BP and LThor basically avoid him with their good colors. If you use him and put his red tile out and it's on the only red match possible and you need red ap you basucally waste it or keep yourself from gathering it.

If all 3 skills were random you couldn't avoid the colors. You could have 4-5 traps out on multiple colors and when 1 springs you get surprised with what hits you. Are you gonna get taken down? Lose some ap? Seems much more exciting to me.

Prior to lazy Thor, it's difficult to have a team that covered red but does not absolutely need red. Lazy Thor does change that as he can use red competently but it certainly isn't his go-to move. At the time Daredevil was introduced, red is likely one of your primary attack colors, so shutting that down is already pretty powerful. From my experience against the computer, you're actually not very likely to hit a trap at all unless you use Magneto (who matches a ridiculous number of tiles with his blue), so I think shutting down red and enviornmental reliably can be as useful as getting the effect of the trap itself. Yes, that won't work on lazy Thor, but it works well on most teams that use red.

Mind you, I'm not saying he's that powerful, but the 'just override red with Summon Demons/Phermone Rage' is some kind of fairy tale. I think I've ever seen a Daredevil once outside of Blind Justice in all my PvP games (not counting BattleAngel, who always have Daredevil) so I'm pretty sure people are not actually having their emergency backup 2* Daken to deal with Ambush.

Unknown

There are a number of what I might call " Legacy powers" which are basically the original powers at release, many of which were conceptual.

I think we need to see more reworking of characters. I think any reworking of existing 1 and 2 star characters are just going to be put into a gold version of that character.

It may be we see platinum versions of Loki Doom and Ragnarok.

Unknown

Just thought of something that might be interesting for daredevil.

On top of what his blue already does:
Trap will also activate if a countdown tile goes off.
If enemy countdown enemy team takes x amount if damage.
If friendly countdown heal team x amount of damage.

Unknown

Good thread:
I think you hit on hose of them right off the bat. Things like four star characters should be better than 3s. All characters should have three abilities both seem so obvious. And revamping mags really would could be as easy as raising the costs a little. It took 4 months to do spidey and they totally botched it.

I don't really want them to nerf OBW. I agree that she is way better than she should be for two star, that being said, without her the transition to three star would be rough if not impossible. I never would have gotten so far without her, and now it's even harder to accumulate three star covers in completion, with more compote on for less covers. At worst make her level three pink 10 ap and equivalently raise 4/5. But raising players need her.

I don't know why people think hood needs to be better. He is the ninja of this game silently waiting and the second best origional roster left.

Ironman 40s abilities are so expensive for there usefulness. I love playing with him and think he pairs well with some simply because of his yellow disappearing act. But he is pretty much a one ability tank.

Hulk needs to be looked at. He is a defensive character I guess, but with powered red and green I never know when ai will choose him. Hulk should be super strong. Have you guys looked at his muscles.

Lazy Thor is pretty scary and seems unfairly better than others, but there has to be someone who is strongest.

Unknown

I think since all the powers should be in line with each other. At least that is what the spidey changes say..
Magneto patch lazy daken and lazy thor should be next.

Since spideys heal is now
2314 for 12y
3248 for 12y15b

Magneto damage move 27purple for 3200ish damage
Etc.

Seems to be the next logical step

Unknown

Jazzhands wrote:

I think since all the powers should be in line with each other. At least that is what the spidey changes say..
Magneto patch lazy daken and lazy thor should be next.

Since spideys heal is now
2314 for 12y
3248 for 12y15b

Magneto damage move 27purple for 3200ish damage
Etc.

Seems to be the next logical step

Spiderman heals up to 3 guys, while Magneto deals damage to one guy, so divide that by 3 and that is actually pretty close to what Magneto's purple is doing right now.

His heals is still quite potent. There's a problem in that healing doesn't work on the dead and usually someone is going to die when you're on the receiving end of a Call the Storm/Rage of the Panther and soon Supernova but those attacks are probably a bit too strong to begin with.