So, to be perfectly clear: Everyone hates update 191?

13

Comments

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's simple. The role of the devs is not to make very single player satisfy or happy because it is impossible to do. Therefore, the best outcome is to satisfy the majority of players.

    Unfortunately, you are in the minority. Base on in-game data and analysis of players' playstyles, you are doing things differently from the majority of the players. In the real world, organisation will weigh the pros and cons on whether it make sense to make changes that benefits only the minority. The fact that the dev think that wildcard shard is not a bad idea is good news for the minority. At least, they didn't reject this idea outright.

    If you want to be special and want to stand out among the crowd, prepare to pay special price.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Chameleon said:
    tiomono said:
    Chameleon said:
    tiomono said:
    Chameleon said:
    JHawkInc said:
    When it comes to 5's, you've even got the benefit of the Latest/Classic split. If you're using shards on a Classic character, you can avoid pulling the 13th cover "naturally" and making the shards go "to waste" by simply not opening Classic tokens with CP in the first place.
    You also have to avoid pulling from the pop-up stores with 3 5s.  I'm now wary of pulling from these stores if my TH (sharget) is in them.  Shouldn't I be excited at the possibility of finishing a classic 5 rather than be fearful of having wasted time and resources towards gaining it?
    But this is exactly what they are addressing. Many players wanted a streak breaker so badly to battle rng.

    Suppose shards were implemented as tier specific instead of character specific and bonus heros remained unchanged. You would still have players that are getting dumped on by rng and wanting to walk away from this "trash, unfair, rng on rng game", having to go to the full 167 pulls every time to get the bonus. And other players that are giddy and elated that they they just got their 3rd bonus hero in under 50 pulls. 

    This creates plenty of player discontent and people ready to leave. Shards levels the experience for everyone and removes the rng. Could it be improved? Sure. Could it more heavily favor the players? Sure. Would that ever be enough for for the vocal minority this forum represents? Some, but there would still be others that will always think they "need that oompa oompa now daddy!"
    Maybe I'm not reading the replies incorrectly or maybe I wasn't clear in my initial post.

    How are they addressing my concerns about having saved shards 'wasted/left behind, etc' when I pull the cover(s) I want before I have saved enough shards?
    Because they are not actually wasted. If you want a character badly enough to champ them and you get to 90% or even 10% complete on their shards and draw one organically that does not somehow throw your shards away. 

    What you are feeling frustrated by is rng. Shards addresses rng in the bonus hero system. To completely remove rng they would need to have all tokens give nothing but shards and you pick exactly what you want with every pull. That's not likely to happen.
    Sorry, no.  What I am feeling frustrated by is the high potential of wasting my investments and being disappointed that I saved shards toward someone I now no longer need to save towards. Basically, the choice I previously had (to change my bonus hero whenever I wanted to) has been taken away.  Naturally, there is RNG to all of our regular pulls.

    I will reiterate my question.

    How are they addressing my concerns about having saved shards 'wasted/left behind, etc' when I pull the cover(s) I want before I have saved enough shards?

    For me this isn't the about semantics of what we call the shards we no longer feel we need or want.
    Because rng gave you what you wanted "early" in your example. In my opinion that still equates to an issue with rng. 
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2019
    What I like from the new system is what most like, no RNG anymore. And in my case I wont waste any shard as I am just going to "favorite" chars from Classic and open Latest (I don't care about 4s that much).

    The real problem I see FOR NOW, is that this will not fix Dilution AT ALL. As I said, at least for now. They really REALLY need to up the amount of shards we are getting. Like ASAP. Next patch. They are late already. Do it now!

    I also don't like as other people has also mentioned that it doesn't reward with more shards when you get a good pull (a 5 from an LT a 4 from a token, etc.). It should give extra shards in those cases.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares said:

    I also don't like as other people has also mentioned that it doesn't reward with more shards when you get a good pull (a 5 from an LT a 4 from a token, etc.). It should give extra shards in those cases.
    This could be interesting. Something like in legendary tokens when you draw a 5* you could get 25% more shards than normal on that pull or something similar. Just apply this same principal on every token type. Heroic just gave you a 3*? Heres 13 shards instead of 10.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,988 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    Polares said:

    I also don't like as other people has also mentioned that it doesn't reward with more shards when you get a good pull (a 5 from an LT a 4 from a token, etc.). It should give extra shards in those cases.
    This could be interesting. Something like in legendary tokens when you draw a 5* you could get 25% more shards than normal on that pull or something similar. Just apply this same principal on every token type. Heroic just gave you a 3*? Heres 13 shards instead of 10.
    I disagree. I don’t like the idea of “the rich get richer”. So I’m pulling more 5s than you and because of that I get more 5* shards? Just because I’m lucky? Nah. 

    I like the idea someone had that said each pull gives us an infinitesimally small chance of filling the meter completely and getting a “bonus”. How I’d tweak that is each shard bumps that percentage by a small amount. So once you’re at 400/500 you have way better odds than someone at 10/500. It encourages the grinding they seem to love (ugh), brings back the “anything can happen” feeling, is a true “bonus” not based on the lucky getting better payouts, and could be a fun way to bridge the gap in rewards since currently we are getting covers at a lower rate than before. Could make for some great “best moments” when someone is 6 shards in and gets the bonus.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,744 Chairperson of the Boards
    Chameleon said:
    tiomono said:
    Chameleon said:
    tiomono said:
    Chameleon said:


    I will reiterate my question.

    How are they addressing my concerns about having saved shards 'wasted/left behind, etc' when I pull the cover(s) I want before I have saved enough shards?

    For me this isn't the about semantics of what we call the shards we no longer feel we need or want.
    The Devil's Advocate response, I think, is that you will EVENTUALLY want to use those shards to either add a champ level to that character or farm that character. They aren't wasted, they're just progress you aren't utilizing until later.

    Most likely much later, but later.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    Polares said:

    I also don't like as other people has also mentioned that it doesn't reward with more shards when you get a good pull (a 5 from an LT a 4 from a token, etc.). It should give extra shards in those cases.
    This could be interesting. Something like in legendary tokens when you draw a 5* you could get 25% more shards than normal on that pull or something similar. Just apply this same principal on every token type. Heroic just gave you a 3*? Heres 13 shards instead of 10.
    I disagree. I don’t like the idea of “the rich get richer”. So I’m pulling more 5s than you and because of that I get more 5* shards? Just because I’m lucky? Nah. 

    I like the idea someone had that said each pull gives us an infinitesimally small chance of filling the meter completely and getting a “bonus”. How I’d tweak that is each shard bumps that percentage by a small amount. So once you’re at 400/500 you have way better odds than someone at 10/500. It encourages the grinding they seem to love (ugh), brings back the “anything can happen” feeling, is a true “bonus” not based on the lucky getting better payouts, and could be a fun way to bridge the gap in rewards since currently we are getting covers at a lower rate than before. Could make for some great “best moments” when someone is 6 shards in and gets the bonus.
    Isn't that essentially still "the rich get richer"? Some will get the bonus more often and some will not.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,988 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    Polares said:

    I also don't like as other people has also mentioned that it doesn't reward with more shards when you get a good pull (a 5 from an LT a 4 from a token, etc.). It should give extra shards in those cases.
    This could be interesting. Something like in legendary tokens when you draw a 5* you could get 25% more shards than normal on that pull or something similar. Just apply this same principal on every token type. Heroic just gave you a 3*? Heres 13 shards instead of 10.
    I disagree. I don’t like the idea of “the rich get richer”. So I’m pulling more 5s than you and because of that I get more 5* shards? Just because I’m lucky? Nah. 

    I like the idea someone had that said each pull gives us an infinitesimally small chance of filling the meter completely and getting a “bonus”. How I’d tweak that is each shard bumps that percentage by a small amount. So once you’re at 400/500 you have way better odds than someone at 10/500. It encourages the grinding they seem to love (ugh), brings back the “anything can happen” feeling, is a true “bonus” not based on the lucky getting better payouts, and could be a fun way to bridge the gap in rewards since currently we are getting covers at a lower rate than before. Could make for some great “best moments” when someone is 6 shards in and gets the bonus.
    Isn't that essentially still "the rich get richer"? Some will get the bonus more often and some will not.
    But not necessarily “the rich” (ie people getting better pull results getting more shards). This method is a true bonus that could happen to anyone. More akin to the old system while keeping the monetizing of the new one. 
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    Polares said:

    I also don't like as other people has also mentioned that it doesn't reward with more shards when you get a good pull (a 5 from an LT a 4 from a token, etc.). It should give extra shards in those cases.
    This could be interesting. Something like in legendary tokens when you draw a 5* you could get 25% more shards than normal on that pull or something similar. Just apply this same principal on every token type. Heroic just gave you a 3*? Heres 13 shards instead of 10.
    I disagree. I don’t like the idea of “the rich get richer”. So I’m pulling more 5s than you and because of that I get more 5* shards? Just because I’m lucky? Nah. 

    I like the idea someone had that said each pull gives us an infinitesimally small chance of filling the meter completely and getting a “bonus”. How I’d tweak that is each shard bumps that percentage by a small amount. So once you’re at 400/500 you have way better odds than someone at 10/500. It encourages the grinding they seem to love (ugh), brings back the “anything can happen” feeling, is a true “bonus” not based on the lucky getting better payouts, and could be a fun way to bridge the gap in rewards since currently we are getting covers at a lower rate than before. Could make for some great “best moments” when someone is 6 shards in and gets the bonus.
    Isn't that essentially still "the rich get richer"? Some will get the bonus more often and some will not.
    But not necessarily “the rich” (ie people getting better pull results getting more shards). This method is a true bonus that could happen to anyone. More akin to the old system while keeping the monetizing of the new one. 
    But you would still have people not getting the same "bonus" pulls. Which leads to massive player dissatisfaction. I know rng was a big sore spot with a lot of players in regards to progress.
  • Godzillafan67
    Godzillafan67 Posts: 615 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2019
    bluewolf said:
    As I opened tokens this morning....watching my shards....paying close attention to shift targets and avoid too much spillover....

    I found my head started playing Avril Lavigne's "Complicated". That's my summation at the moment of the used-to-be-fun process of opening covers.

    Please make this better and more intuitive.
    For me, as I opened my tokens and watched the shards accumulate this morning, I found the droll, rote process of opening covers to suddenly be more engaging.  Well, except for tokens where I open one, click to accept shards, open the next, click to accept shards, open the next, etc.

    Yes, we players are not a hive mind.  We are engaged uniquely and have different goals and tactics to achieve those goals.

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    Polares said:

    I also don't like as other people has also mentioned that it doesn't reward with more shards when you get a good pull (a 5 from an LT a 4 from a token, etc.). It should give extra shards in those cases.
    This could be interesting. Something like in legendary tokens when you draw a 5* you could get 25% more shards than normal on that pull or something similar. Just apply this same principal on every token type. Heroic just gave you a 3*? Heres 13 shards instead of 10.
    I disagree. I don’t like the idea of “the rich get richer”. So I’m pulling more 5s than you and because of that I get more 5* shards? Just because I’m lucky? Nah. 

    I like the idea someone had that said each pull gives us an infinitesimally small chance of filling the meter completely and getting a “bonus”. How I’d tweak that is each shard bumps that percentage by a small amount. So once you’re at 400/500 you have way better odds than someone at 10/500. It encourages the grinding they seem to love (ugh), brings back the “anything can happen” feeling, is a true “bonus” not based on the lucky getting better payouts, and could be a fun way to bridge the gap in rewards since currently we are getting covers at a lower rate than before. Could make for some great “best moments” when someone is 6 shards in and gets the bonus.
    Isn't that essentially still "the rich get richer"? Some will get the bonus more often and some will not.
    But not necessarily “the rich” (ie people getting better pull results getting more shards). This method is a true bonus that could happen to anyone. More akin to the old system while keeping the monetizing of the new one. 
    But you would still have people not getting the same "bonus" pulls. Which leads to massive player dissatisfaction. I know rng was a big sore spot with a lot of players in regards to progress.
    It was definitely in the top 5 reasons I left.
  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd honestly be kind of curious to see the results if this thread had a poll, but don't want to dilute the topic to yet another thread.  

    Personally, I'm disappointed by the statistical reduction in bonus covers, but pleased by the nearest thing to "colorless" covers this game will likely ever see.  Given my relatively light play style, I honestly doubt I'll see much of a difference in my 4* progress (the reduction in rewards will be little different from being in a "BH dry spell" for me and the TH can always be the most needed cover).  

    So I guess I'd say I'm generally positive on TH, but it's more of a lateral move than a true upgrade from BH, even if it might support my personal playstyle better.

    I'm not a Top 5% player, though, for whom those statistical differences will be far more immediately noticeable out of the gate due to the higher number of tokens opened, plus the greater need to keep the latest characters covered to keep up.  I get the complaints, but hope that event rewards are upgraded to even the current gap between BH & TH...or some vault tokens added to TH, even though they were ineligible for BH, which might be the easiest way to close the gap without completely revamping the reward tables.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,277 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares said:
    What I like from the new system is what most like, no RNG anymore. And in my case I wont waste any shard as I am just going to "favorite" chars from Classic and open Latest (I don't care about 4s that much).

    The real problem I see FOR NOW, is that this will not fix Dilution AT ALL. As I said, at least for now. They really REALLY need to up the amount of shards we are getting. Like ASAP. Next patch. They are late already. Do it now

    Well stated. In fact the amount of earnable shards needs to 100% offset the extra pulls needed now under the new system since we need to open a fair number more tokens to get our guaranteed BH. The rate should not be less than what we had.

    And those earnable shards have to be easy progression targets and not T10 finishes because otherwise you just enrich a tiny fragment of the ultra competitive players and not the casual ones who this system was supposed to help based the surveys (ie easier to cover the heroes you want which was stated in the original post on Shards by ICEIX).

    KGB
  • JSP869
    JSP869 Posts: 824 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:
    You don't need to open 400 heroics to earn a few 4* covers. You need to open only 27 Classic or LTs to get a 4* cover.
    That's what I did after Shards went live, immediately got my first "bonus" level for Kate taking her to 305, and after pulling this week's Heroic Tokens (& other event Tokens) she's currently at 371 / 400 towards her next '"bonus" level.

    The plan is to get Kate to 320 to help me finish my currently 3/4/3 Clint Barton. He's already at 132 / 500, and after doing the math, 290 more Legendary pulls will have earned me two "bonus" Clint covers, although Kate will still be shy of 320. But I'll also be earning 3 shards for Kate with every Heroic and Event Token I pull, so I might get her to 320 around the same time I make my 290th Legendary Pull.

    Also helping Kate is that I've BH/Sharded 3* Hawkguy, and his "bonus" covers have been rolling in. Unfortunately my dupe Hawkguy is only 249 so he won't give up a Kate cover for another 16 levels, but adding 17 levels to him will give me two LTs, plus a third LT when I champion him again (14 more covers :tongue: ), and he'll give me a second Kate cover at 183 (another 17 covers :lol: )

    As Dutch said, I've just got to stick to the plan.

  • grumbLEGO
    grumbLEGO Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    Honestly, I’ll take working toward a certainty over the odds of maybe getting what I need any day. I’d love to see the 5*s showing up a progress rewards in SL 10(patent pending), and the shards mean that maybe it’ll take longer and it’s at “lower” odds, but eventually I will get the cover I need. I’ll miss the surprise of a bonus cover but it beats the disappointment of always missing the odds. 

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