So, to be perfectly clear: Everyone hates update 191?

24

Comments

  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler
    I don't dislike the update. It IS an update. We just high expectations
  • Trilateralus
    Trilateralus Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    I thought this sounded like a great idea. Until I found out it replaces bonus heroes. For me that is absolutely a negative. I used BH to raise my lowest 3* to gain LTs and 4* covers, every 3* pull was a chance at another champ level. With every 3* champed there’s no real incentive for me to select a 3* favourite anymore. I get no joy from Gambit shards. This is infinitely worse for my 5* gains. With BH I was close to finishing Thor. At 3 shards per 5* pull I may never pull enough to finish Thor. There is no good reason for this to replace BH rather than supplement it. 
  • Trilateralus
    Trilateralus Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    So I jumped the gun a little. I though you only got 5* shards upon pulling a 5* cover. Knowing you get the shards from every LT is definitely better. Still don’t like the loss of BH. 
  • ROY84
    ROY84 Posts: 30 Just Dropped In
    Trilateralus said:
    So I jumped the gun a little. I though you only got 5* shards upon pulling a 5* cover. Knowing you get the shards from every LT is definitely better. Still don’t like the loss of BH. 
    It's only 3 shards though. You'd have to pull hundreds of covers to get a 5* 

    I've gotten 5* bonus heroes on pulls off 5 or less. 

    I can't even understand the people who defend this. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    One of the logical flaws perpetuated around here with the introduction of Targeted Heroes is that all of a sudden, players are experiencing and will be experiencing

    1) perfect distribution coverage of their characters when they get that one BH cover and
    2) their BH rate are always in line with the expected rate of 5% if TH doesn't exist.

    In the past, I heard a lot of complains about getting BH cover in colour that players do not want and how the game are rigging the BH rate because they are not getting the extra cover based on advertised rate.

    It's magical how TH can shift luck and perception.  :o
  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    HoundofShadow said:
    One of the logical flaws perpetuated around here with the introduction of Targeted Heroes is that all of a sudden, players are experiencing and will be experiencing

    1) perfect distribution coverage of their characters when they get that one BH cover and
    2) their BH rate are always in line with the expected rate of 5% if TH doesn't exist.

    In the past, I heard a lot of complains about getting BH cover in colour that players do not want and how the game are rigging the BH rate because they are not getting the extra cover based on advertised rate.

    It's magical how TH can shift luck and perception.  :o
    We won't be experiencing either 1 or 2.  Bonus Heroes are gone.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,988 Chairperson of the Boards
    Chameleon said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    One of the logical flaws perpetuated around here with the introduction of Targeted Heroes is that all of a sudden, players are experiencing and will be experiencing

    1) perfect distribution coverage of their characters when they get that one BH cover and
    2) their BH rate are always in line with the expected rate of 5% if TH doesn't exist.

    In the past, I heard a lot of complains about getting BH cover in colour that players do not want and how the game are rigging the BH rate because they are not getting the extra cover based on advertised rate.

    It's magical how TH can shift luck and perception.  :o
    We won't be experiencing either 1 or 2.  Bonus Heroes are gone.
    I also haven’t seen one person state 1 or 2 as a premise they are working from... not one person. As usual I don’t know who Hound is referring to when he says “players”. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm referring to some players who are on the Shard Wastage train... the minority...  

    Let's hope the dev don't charge these group of players too much for wildcard shards or the ability to move shards around.

    If the devs did make this change without any "charge", I hope these group of players buy a Stark Salary each to thank the devs.
  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm referring to some players who are on the Shard Wastage train... the minority...  

    Let's hope the dev don't charge these group of players too much for wildcard shards or the ability to move shards around.

    If the devs did make this change without any "charge", I hope these group of players buy a Stark Salary each to thank the devs.
    Not to be argumentative but how do we know who the overall minority or majority are leaning?

    I just don't like feeling like my investments, time.. money.. resources or otherwise, have been wasted.  I'm not meaning to be all doom and gloom over this.. honestly.  I am mostly concerned about wasted shards.  If my investments weren't so devalued by this then I'd be ok with it.

    I felt like I had a choice to select a bonus hero based on my objectives with each pull.  Now I feel as though some level of choice has been taken away and I'm kind of forced to grind along to finish the cover via shards so that I don't feel like my investments, as listed above, were wasted.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Based on what the dev says:
    Actually, a *ton* of players keep characters fav'd past Championing them to gain additional Champion levels specifically to farm rewards. Another batch keep Champed characters up there to get them max champed. For example, the number of players with Thanos and Dr. Strange favorited at the 3-star tier after Championing them is huge, despite "needing" covers for another character. This scales up to players Champing Grocket, C4rol, Juggs, Chavez, etc. at the 4-star tier. So, yes, given that people are using the Bonus Hero system for exactly that, it's very likely that they'll continue to use Shards for exactly the same thing.

    The idea of some kind of Wildcard Shard isn't a bad one. As pointed out in the thread elsewhere though, it also comes with some balancing downsides, some of which could be alleviated with usage restrictions, sure. It's something to keep in mind, and an example of valuable feedback that's come from this thread.

    As for the above "wasted" Shards thought, as stated above, this doesn't match with player play experience in the majority of situations. Players want to keep building characters past Champion for a number of reasons. And for those players that like keeping their characters evenly leveled, those Shards never go away, so they're never really wasted.

    Read the last paragraph.

  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    HoundofShadow said:
    Based on what the dev says:
    As for the above "wasted" Shards thought, as stated above, this doesn't match with player play experience in the majority of situations. Players want to keep building characters past Champion for a number of reasons. And for those players that like keeping their characters evenly leveled, those Shards never go away, so they're never really wasted.

    Read the last paragraph.

    Fair enough.  I just don't think we will actually know how many players feel that shards (and their investments) have been wasted/devalued until this new system has been up and running for a while.  History can help with guessing but, in this case, I don't feel that it can fully predict.  I actually think many players may be so confused by this shard system that they basically ignore it, much like many confused by supports have ignored them.  In that case it would appear to jive with the history but could be for entirely different reasons.

    If some players like to keep their characters evenly leveled then this will help most if they don't target specific characters in those tiers and just let the shards fall where they may.  That's just not my p.o.v. regarding shards.
  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    Also, I can't help but feel like we're just going in circles now.    :D
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,605 Chairperson of the Boards
    Chameleon said:
    JHawkInc said:
    When it comes to 5's, you've even got the benefit of the Latest/Classic split. If you're using shards on a Classic character, you can avoid pulling the 13th cover "naturally" and making the shards go "to waste" by simply not opening Classic tokens with CP in the first place.
    You also have to avoid pulling from the pop-up stores with 3 5s.  I'm now wary of pulling from these stores if my TH (sharget) is in them.  Shouldn't I be excited at the possibility of finishing a classic 5 rather than be fearful of having wasted time and resources towards gaining it?
    Yes. Avoiding those stores is just as easy as avoiding Classic tokens.

    You say we should be excited and not fearful like they are mutually exclusive things.

    I am excited because shards and targeted heroes let me bypass the RNG for a classic 5/5/X character to guarantee I get the right color I need to finish them.

    I am not fearful of wasting time and resources because... that literally can't happen. I can't fear it, because it is impossible. I am 100% in control of this, and can spend my resources in a way that I am at zero risk of finishing a classic 5 (via cover draw) and thus at zero risk of wasting time OR resources.

    I am VERY excited because I have three characters that are 5/5/1 with 4-5 Saved covers EACH, and I finally have a way to specifically pursue the covers I need to champ them without drawing any covers that will go "to waste" (be Saved) EVER AGAIN.

    This update gives agency and takes away bad luck and that is to be praised (regardless whether or not the system needs fine tuning after we have some more experience using it in a live environment).
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    ROY84 said:
    Trilateralus said:
    So I jumped the gun a little. I though you only got 5* shards upon pulling a 5* cover. Knowing you get the shards from every LT is definitely better. Still don’t like the loss of BH. 
    It's only 3 shards though. You'd have to pull hundreds of covers to get a 5* 

    I've gotten 5* bonus heroes on pulls off 5 or less. 

    I can't even understand the people who defend this. 
    Its 167 pulls, not hundreds. 

    How many times did you have dry spells on bonus 5*'s that were longer than 167? I'm sure the spreadsheet people have plenty of data to support how horrible dry spells were.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Chameleon said:
    JHawkInc said:
    When it comes to 5's, you've even got the benefit of the Latest/Classic split. If you're using shards on a Classic character, you can avoid pulling the 13th cover "naturally" and making the shards go "to waste" by simply not opening Classic tokens with CP in the first place.
    You also have to avoid pulling from the pop-up stores with 3 5s.  I'm now wary of pulling from these stores if my TH (sharget) is in them.  Shouldn't I be excited at the possibility of finishing a classic 5 rather than be fearful of having wasted time and resources towards gaining it?
    But this is exactly what they are addressing. Many players wanted a streak breaker so badly to battle rng.

    Suppose shards were implemented as tier specific instead of character specific and bonus heros remained unchanged. You would still have players that are getting dumped on by rng and wanting to walk away from this "trash, unfair, rng on rng game", having to go to the full 167 pulls every time to get the bonus. And other players that are giddy and elated that they they just got their 3rd bonus hero in under 50 pulls. 

    This creates plenty of player discontent and people ready to leave. Shards levels the experience for everyone and removes the rng. Could it be improved? Sure. Could it more heavily favor the players? Sure. Would that ever be enough for for the vocal minority this forum represents? Some, but there would still be others that will always think they "need that oompa oompa now daddy!"
  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    tiomono said:
    Chameleon said:
    JHawkInc said:
    When it comes to 5's, you've even got the benefit of the Latest/Classic split. If you're using shards on a Classic character, you can avoid pulling the 13th cover "naturally" and making the shards go "to waste" by simply not opening Classic tokens with CP in the first place.
    You also have to avoid pulling from the pop-up stores with 3 5s.  I'm now wary of pulling from these stores if my TH (sharget) is in them.  Shouldn't I be excited at the possibility of finishing a classic 5 rather than be fearful of having wasted time and resources towards gaining it?
    But this is exactly what they are addressing. Many players wanted a streak breaker so badly to battle rng.

    Suppose shards were implemented as tier specific instead of character specific and bonus heros remained unchanged. You would still have players that are getting dumped on by rng and wanting to walk away from this "trash, unfair, rng on rng game", having to go to the full 167 pulls every time to get the bonus. And other players that are giddy and elated that they they just got their 3rd bonus hero in under 50 pulls. 

    This creates plenty of player discontent and people ready to leave. Shards levels the experience for everyone and removes the rng. Could it be improved? Sure. Could it more heavily favor the players? Sure. Would that ever be enough for for the vocal minority this forum represents? Some, but there would still be others that will always think they "need that oompa oompa now daddy!"
    Maybe I'm not reading the replies incorrectly or maybe I wasn't clear in my initial post.

    How are they addressing my concerns about having saved shards 'wasted/left behind, etc' when I pull the cover(s) I want before I have saved enough shards?
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Chameleon said:
    tiomono said:
    Chameleon said:
    JHawkInc said:
    When it comes to 5's, you've even got the benefit of the Latest/Classic split. If you're using shards on a Classic character, you can avoid pulling the 13th cover "naturally" and making the shards go "to waste" by simply not opening Classic tokens with CP in the first place.
    You also have to avoid pulling from the pop-up stores with 3 5s.  I'm now wary of pulling from these stores if my TH (sharget) is in them.  Shouldn't I be excited at the possibility of finishing a classic 5 rather than be fearful of having wasted time and resources towards gaining it?
    But this is exactly what they are addressing. Many players wanted a streak breaker so badly to battle rng.

    Suppose shards were implemented as tier specific instead of character specific and bonus heros remained unchanged. You would still have players that are getting dumped on by rng and wanting to walk away from this "trash, unfair, rng on rng game", having to go to the full 167 pulls every time to get the bonus. And other players that are giddy and elated that they they just got their 3rd bonus hero in under 50 pulls. 

    This creates plenty of player discontent and people ready to leave. Shards levels the experience for everyone and removes the rng. Could it be improved? Sure. Could it more heavily favor the players? Sure. Would that ever be enough for for the vocal minority this forum represents? Some, but there would still be others that will always think they "need that oompa oompa now daddy!"
    Maybe I'm not reading the replies incorrectly or maybe I wasn't clear in my initial post.

    How are they addressing my concerns about having saved shards 'wasted/left behind, etc' when I pull the cover(s) I want before I have saved enough shards?
    Because they are not actually wasted. If you want a character badly enough to champ them and you get to 90% or even 10% complete on their shards and draw one organically that does not somehow throw your shards away. 

    What you are feeling frustrated by is rng. Shards addresses rng in the bonus hero system. To completely remove rng they would need to have all tokens give nothing but shards and you pick exactly what you want with every pull. That's not likely to happen.

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