Class of 2013 PVP

jp1

I find it interesting that Line collusion, cupcake teams, and coordinated sniping are not viewed as “unfair” or “cheating”. 

I realize there isn’t much the Devs could do about it. However, it speaks volumes when people who think certain aspects are broken or unfair are taking total advantage of others.

tiomono

jp1 said:

I find it interesting that Line collusion, cupcake teams, and coordinated sniping are not viewed as “unfair” or “cheating”. 

I realize there isn’t much the Devs could do about it. However, it speaks volumes when people who think certain aspects are broken or unfair while taking total advantage of others.

I'm personally very against alliance mega families and coordinating outside the game as well. Cooperating with opponents in a competitive atmosphere is bogus.

Daredevil217

tiomono said:

jp1 said:

I find it interesting that Line collusion, cupcake teams, and coordinated sniping are not viewed as “unfair” or “cheating”. 

I realize there isn’t much the Devs could do about it. However, it speaks volumes when people who think certain aspects are broken or unfair while taking total advantage of others.

I'm personally very against alliance mega families and coordinating outside the game as well. Cooperating with opponents in a competitive atmosphere is bogus.

Agree. I just hit everyone. I know what slice my alliance plays in and try to go elsewhere to avoid accidentally hitting friendlies. Otherwise, I don’t even look at names unless I notice I’m queueing the same teams over and over. I would absolutely sign the petition to end coordination. 

Also agree that I’d love to hear your anti-Bishop strat @acescracked

bluewolf

The game will finally be dead if the outside coordination is somehow eliminated.

There are plenty of whales who do so mostly for PVP dominance, and coordination is a major part of that.

And a major reason for HP purchases is shielding and hopping for high scores, also requiring coordination.

So...yeah.  

Bowgentle

Also, go play s2, see how you enjoy PVP without being able to feast on 75 pointers.

jp1

Bowgentle said:

Also, go play s2, see how you enjoy PVP without being able to feast on 75 pointers.

Can’t recall the last time I’ve hit a 75 pointer. Going solo on PVP most teams I wind up queuing are worth 20-50 points. Once I hit 500 or so 35 is a high pointer and average is 25.

Takes a little more work, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about sitting in  a Line room waiting for my turn for a cupcake. Not much real competition in that.

Bowgentle

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

Also, go play s2, see how you enjoy PVP without being able to feast on 75 pointers.

Can’t recall the last time I’ve hit a 75 pointer. Going solo on PVP most teams I wind up queuing are worth 20-50 points. Once I hit 500 or so 35 is a high pointer and average is 25.

Takes a little more work, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about sitting in  a Line room waiting for my turn for a cupcake. Not much real competition in that.

I haven't used LINE all year and can find 75s all the time in s1.

jp1

bluewolf said:

The game will finally be dead if the outside coordination is somehow eliminated.

There are plenty of whales who do so mostly for PVP dominance, and coordination is a major part of that.

And a major reason for HP purchases is shielding and hopping for high scores, also requiring coordination.

So...yeah.  

That’s a shame. Isn’t the whole point of whaling to be able to dominate on your own merit?

I realize it is detrimental for my own game, but if I weren’t going to play it straight I might as well have a sandboxed account and save a lot of time and money.

jp1

Bowgentle said:

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

Also, go play s2, see how you enjoy PVP without being able to feast on 75 pointers.

Can’t recall the last time I’ve hit oa 75 pointer. Going solo on PVP most teams I wind up queuing are worth 20-50 points. Once I hit 500 or so 35 is a high pointer and average is 25.

Takes a little more work, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about sitting in  a Line room waiting for my turn for a cupcake. Not much real competition in that.

I haven't used LINE all year and can find 75s all the time in s1.

Wish I could say the same. Maybe our MMR is different enough to account for it?

fight4thedream

Daredevil217 said:

Well... I Bishoped my way to around 1100 and couldn’t get further because everyone else is Bishoping as well. Not taking on that suicide mission. Sorry to the guy I double tapped for 15 points... working as intended. Sorry to all the low level rosters I beat on for 9 points each because they didn’t have Bishop... working as intended. Sorry to the two people who took defensive losses... working as intended. Congrats to the two people who beat me (2-2 overall on D). Weird just floating around in the last 6 hours skipping and skipping, not getting hit (aside from the above mentioned 4 times) despite being the only unshielded person in the top twenty. Working as intended I’m sure. Anyway, I’m shielding out. Tired of scrolling through an endless sea of either 4 point 4* rosters or Bishop teams. I don’t think I’m going to get that 1200 points. Ah well. 

Bring on 2014 Sim!

Let's be real here: You didn't reach 1200 because of 1. poor timing and 2. you lacked the will.

1. Poor Timing

Off season events are always a riskier pursuit since less people are willing to spend on shields. Usually most high scorers will put up big points early and then shield out much earlier than they usually do. Some people will hit 1200 and float for the rest of the event and some people will go for the 75 wins. With less people hopping, there are less points all around. If you want to reach 1200, your best bet is to join the event in Cl8 or 9 as early as possible and work from there. Keep your eye on the leader boards and you will get a good sense of when people are climbing, hopping and how much points are out there in general. 

2. Lack of Will

Your refusal to take the risk to battle other Bishop teams is probably what ultimately cost you 1200. I understand you don't have an ideal roster to handle Bishop/Kitty/Grocket but you are not the only one. And there were people that were able to reach 1200 running the same team. Instead of scrolling around looking for an easy target, it would have been more fruitful for you to at least experiment with possible counters. 

Having looked over your roster, your best bet is fighting lower level Bishop/Kitty/Grocket teams with:

5* Thanos/*5 Black Panther/Bishop

Depending on the board, you are going to have to decide whether you are able to remove enough strike tiles quick enough to reduce damage intake or try to match blue so as not to trigger the opponent's Bishop passive. 

If luck is on your side, your Bishop will survive the next match and have enough blue to stun Kitty. Your Bishop probably won't survive much longer after that, but if he does and hasn't been stunned, stun the opponent Bishop.

Next comes the tricky part. If your opponent Bishop still has some health left, under most circumstances you will want Thanos to get stunned before BP so he will hopefully be active when BP downs the opponent Bishop. After that, Thanos and BP should be able to down Rocket and then Kitty. 

There are risks, no doubt, and you will most likely need health packs but once you get the hang of it you should be mostly successful. Just be careful not go up against a higher level Kitty/Bishop. Experiment a bit and get a feel for your team's strength limit.

5* Thanos/5* Black Panther/5* Doom (recommend using black AP boosts)

The strategy behind this team is two-pronged: your main strategy is to have Thanos stunned first, then Black Panther. For your specific builds, Doom should be tanking yellow, blue, Thanos tanking black, yellow, green, and Black Panther red. Once Thanos is stunned your BP should be tanking Black and Purple. Chase Black. 

Once your Thanos is back, avoid matching your main colors and then BP should come back down down Bishop. While the opponents team is stunned continue chasing black. BP should down Grocket. By the time Kitty is back your Doom should have enough black to finish her off.

The second prong is your plan B. If things get too crazy, try to have Doom go down first to remove all the special tiles. After that, you should be able to take out the opponent team depending on how much damage you have taken.

Admittedly, you are going to end up using a lot more health packs than you are probably used to using. But a good defensive team isn't supposed to be easy. 

And I would also argue reaching the final progression goal isn't supposed to be easy, either. But that's a debate for another thread.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To bring this discussion back on topic, I agree that at least one node should have required a character from the Class of 2013 PvP. Otherwise these events end up being repeats of S.H.I.E.L.D. Simulator for the most part. At least at the higher end of PvP play. 

Bowgentle

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

Also, go play s2, see how you enjoy PVP without being able to feast on 75 pointers.

Can’t recall the last time I’ve hit oa 75 pointer. Going solo on PVP most teams I wind up queuing are worth 20-50 points. Once I hit 500 or so 35 is a high pointer and average is 25.

Takes a little more work, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about sitting in  a Line room waiting for my turn for a cupcake. Not much real competition in that.

I haven't used LINE all year and can find 75s all the time in s1.

Wish I could say the same. Maybe our MMR is different enough to account for it?

Don't think so.
Difference is probably that I know how to time my climbs and just go for 1200 on first shield.
I don't hop.

jp1

Bowgentle said:

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

Also, go play s2, see how you enjoy PVP without being able to feast on 75 pointers.

Can’t recall the last time I’ve hit oa 75 pointer. Going solo on PVP most teams I wind up queuing are worth 20-50 points. Once I hit 500 or so 35 is a high pointer and average is 25.

Takes a little more work, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about sitting in  a Line room waiting for my turn for a cupcake. Not much real competition in that.

I haven't used LINE all year and can find 75s all the time in s1.

Wish I could say the same. Maybe our MMR is different enough to account for it?

Don't think so.
Difference is probably that I know how to time my climbs and just go for 1200 on first shield.
I don't hop.

I almost never shield, and very very rarely hop. I hit my slice as early as possible for as many seed teams as I can get. Wait for retals  after my first climb, hit those of they are worth it, and do my final climb as close to the event end as I can swing based on real life responsibilities. Is this strategy a poor one?

I welcome suggestions.

fight4thedream

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

Also, go play s2, see how you enjoy PVP without being able to feast on 75 pointers.

Can’t recall the last time I’ve hit oa 75 pointer. Going solo on PVP most teams I wind up queuing are worth 20-50 points. Once I hit 500 or so 35 is a high pointer and average is 25.

Takes a little more work, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about sitting in  a Line room waiting for my turn for a cupcake. Not much real competition in that.

I haven't used LINE all year and can find 75s all the time in s1.

Wish I could say the same. Maybe our MMR is different enough to account for it?

Don't think so.
Difference is probably that I know how to time my climbs and just go for 1200 on first shield.
I don't hop.

I almost never shield, and very very rarely hop. I hit my slice as early as possible for as many seed teams as I can get. Wait for retals  after my first climb, hit those of they are worth it, and do my final climb as close to the event end as I can swing based on real life responsibilities. Is this strategy a poor one?

I welcome suggestions.

You need to get a good idea when "waves" occur in the slice you play in. "Waves" are when a high number of high point players hop together suddenly injecting the shard with high point Qs. Often they will leave an easy team called a grill for their teammates and allies to use to hop with. However, once the wave ends it becomes "dry out" and it is very difficult to climb.

If you check the leader boards of your slice and see a lot of high point players in your t10 it means you simply aren't timing your climb properly.   

Bowgentle

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

jp1 said:

Bowgentle said:

Also, go play s2, see how you enjoy PVP without being able to feast on 75 pointers.

Can’t recall the last time I’ve hit oa 75 pointer. Going solo on PVP most teams I wind up queuing are worth 20-50 points. Once I hit 500 or so 35 is a high pointer and average is 25.

Takes a little more work, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about sitting in  a Line room waiting for my turn for a cupcake. Not much real competition in that.

I haven't used LINE all year and can find 75s all the time in s1.

Wish I could say the same. Maybe our MMR is different enough to account for it?

Don't think so.
Difference is probably that I know how to time my climbs and just go for 1200 on first shield.
I don't hop.

I almost never shield, and very very rarely hop. I hit my slice as early as possible for as many seed teams as I can get. Wait for retals  after my first climb, hit those of they are worth it, and do my final climb as close to the event end as I can swing based on real life responsibilities. Is this strategy a poor one?

I welcome suggestions.

Time your climbs to the 24, 11, 8, 3hr mark.

jp1

Appreciate the suggestions. I’ll give it a shot and see if my overall scores improve.

Im not highly competitive in PVP, just recently started coming in at around 9k a season. So, I’m working to improve as much as possible without the aforementioned Line coordination.

Kixty

This has been a fun event for me.   It is very Shield SIM-ish, but there is more variety.  I've had my lunch eaten by a max thorkoye team and a x-wolvie, 3mags,gsbw team. I've used a bunch of my roster and haven't shielded at all.  I wont get to 900 due to the easy target I am, but 40 wins is a cinch

Phumade

fight4thedream said:

Daredevil217 said:

Well... I Bishoped my way to around 1100 and couldn’t get further because everyone else is Bishoping as well. Not taking on that suicide mission. Sorry to the guy I double tapped for 15 points... working as intended. Sorry to all the low level rosters I beat on for 9 points each because they didn’t have Bishop... working as intended. Sorry to the two people who took defensive losses... working as intended. Congrats to the two people who beat me (2-2 overall on D). Weird just floating around in the last 6 hours skipping and skipping, not getting hit (aside from the above mentioned 4 times) despite being the only unshielded person in the top twenty. Working as intended I’m sure. Anyway, I’m shielding out. Tired of scrolling through an endless sea of either 4 point 4* rosters or Bishop teams. I don’t think I’m going to get that 1200 points. Ah well. 

Bring on 2014 Sim!

Let's be real here: You didn't reach 1200 because of 1. poor timing and 2. you lacked the will.

1. Poor Timing

Off season events are always a riskier pursuit since less people are willing to spend on shields. Usually most high scorers will put up big points early and then shield out much earlier than they usually do. Some people will hit 1200 and float for the rest of the event and some people will go for the 75 wins. With less people hopping, there are less points all around. If you want to reach 1200, your best bet is to join the event in Cl8 or 9 as early as possible and work from there. Keep your eye on the leader boards and you will get a good sense of when people are climbing, hopping and how much points are out there in general. 

2. Lack of Will

Your refusal to take the risk to battle other Bishop teams is probably what ultimately cost you 1200. I understand you don't have an ideal roster to handle Bishop/Kitty/Grocket but you are not the only one. And there were people that were able to reach 1200 running the same team. Instead of scrolling around looking for an easy target, it would have been more fruitful for you to at least experiment with possible counters. 

Having looked over your roster, your best bet is fighting lower level Bishop/Kitty/Grocket teams with:

For once I actually agree with Fight.
 
The game is so old now and player response are so ingrained that big T5 players don’t really need line TBH.

People have played with and against the same people In Their roster class that they instinctively know play times and if that person will snap reshield go for the 3x etc.  

CC teams are a misnomer since the avg Baker has to put out big 5* and big 4*.  Truthfully most grills are equivalent to what a transitioning 5* roster uses.  

And finally,  while coordinated sniping exists,  that’s only an issue for the biggest point generators in a shard.  While everyone thinks they are the target of an mpq assassin squad in truth,  it’s usually because they didn’t skip around enough to get a sense of who’s actively climb/ floating etc.  in turn those hitting are almost certainly hitting indiscriminately and not bothering to let some pass and block others.

in any case, it just boils down to knowing the people and their habits in the shard,  vs your specific competitors in your bracket.  The theory craft of mpq teams and what beats what is pretty basic now and well understood.

What is hard is knowing how other players react and adapting to the real que environment

Bowgentle

Phumade said:

fight4thedream said:

Daredevil217 said:

Well... I Bishoped my way to around 1100 and couldn’t get further because everyone else is Bishoping as well. Not taking on that suicide mission. Sorry to the guy I double tapped for 15 points... working as intended. Sorry to all the low level rosters I beat on for 9 points each because they didn’t have Bishop... working as intended. Sorry to the two people who took defensive losses... working as intended. Congrats to the two people who beat me (2-2 overall on D). Weird just floating around in the last 6 hours skipping and skipping, not getting hit (aside from the above mentioned 4 times) despite being the only unshielded person in the top twenty. Working as intended I’m sure. Anyway, I’m shielding out. Tired of scrolling through an endless sea of either 4 point 4* rosters or Bishop teams. I don’t think I’m going to get that 1200 points. Ah well. 

Bring on 2014 Sim!

Let's be real here: You didn't reach 1200 because of 1. poor timing and 2. you lacked the will.

1. Poor Timing

Off season events are always a riskier pursuit since less people are willing to spend on shields. Usually most high scorers will put up big points early and then shield out much earlier than they usually do. Some people will hit 1200 and float for the rest of the event and some people will go for the 75 wins. With less people hopping, there are less points all around. If you want to reach 1200, your best bet is to join the event in Cl8 or 9 as early as possible and work from there. Keep your eye on the leader boards and you will get a good sense of when people are climbing, hopping and how much points are out there in general. 

2. Lack of Will

Your refusal to take the risk to battle other Bishop teams is probably what ultimately cost you 1200. I understand you don't have an ideal roster to handle Bishop/Kitty/Grocket but you are not the only one. And there were people that were able to reach 1200 running the same team. Instead of scrolling around looking for an easy target, it would have been more fruitful for you to at least experiment with possible counters. 

Having looked over your roster, your best bet is fighting lower level Bishop/Kitty/Grocket teams with:

For once I actually agree with Fight.
 
The game is so old now and player response are so ingrained that big T5 players don’t really need line TBH.

People have played with and against the same people In Their roster class that they instinctively know play times and if that person will snap reshield go for the 3x etc.  

CC teams are a misnomer since the avg Baker has to put out big 5* and big 4*.  Truthfully most grills are equivalent to what a transitioning 5* roster uses.  

And finally,  while coordinated sniping exists,  that’s only an issue for the biggest point generators in a shard.  While everyone thinks they are the target of an mpq assassin squad in truth,  it’s usually because they didn’t skip around enough to get a sense of who’s actively climb/ floating etc.  in turn those hitting are almost certainly hitting indiscriminately and not bothering to let some pass and block others.

in any case, it just boils down to knowing the people and their habits in the shard,  vs your specific competitors in your bracket.  The theory craft of mpq teams and what beats what is pretty basic now and well understood.

What is hard is knowing how other players react and adapting to the real que environment

Yeah, it basically boils down to "know your slice".

Daredevil217

Bowgentle said:

Yeah, it basically boils down to "know your slice".

And you can argue that’s my problem. 

I don’t know the players in my slice. I don’t know their habits. I don’t check leaderboards. I don’t check the names of the people I hit. I don’t care about waves (actually just heard of this term now). I still don’t know the difference between a “grill” and a “cupcake”.  I play in different slices and at different times randomly. I want to just play the game without studying player habits and leaderboards...

So yeah, you can say the fact that I don’t play the meta game within the game is my problem, and I’ll say that’s probably fair. I think it’s a shame that that is just accepted as part of hitting max PROGRESSION (not placement) and the problem is with the player (me) unwilling to do that, and not the game itself.

Also, Fight, I honestly want to thank you for taking the time to shoot me some counter team ideas. I’ll have to give them a try in 2014 Sim. I chuckled reading the first one and seeing:

“Depending on the board...“

“If luck is on your side...”

“so he will hopefully be active when BP downs the opponent Bishop”.

“There are risks, no doubt”

”you should be mostly successful. Just be careful not go up against a higher level Kitty/Bishop.”

So many things need to go right!! Also, I’ll be bummed not to be able to put Gritshop back on defense. But at least I can put two fives and Bish which might be enough of a deterrent to fend of swarms of attacks? What are your thoughts on the best 4* double 5 defensive team I can put out after trying your counter?

Also, I am one 4* BH away from a 450 BSSM so of you have counters involving him I’m down to hear those too. Again, thanks!!

fight4thedream

Daredevil217 said:

Also, Fight, I honestly want to thank you for taking the time to shoot me some counter team ideas. I’ll have to give them a try in 2014 Sim. I chuckled reading the first one and seeing:

“Depending on the board...“

“If luck is on your side...”

“so he will hopefully be active when BP downs the opponent Bishop”.

“There are risks, no doubt”

”you should be mostly successful. Just be careful not go up against a higher level Kitty/Bishop.”

So many things need to go right!! Also, I’ll be bummed not to be able to put Gritshop back on defense. But at least I can put two fives and Bish which might be enough of a deterrent to fend of swarms of attacks? What are your thoughts on the best 4* double 5 defensive team I can put out after trying your counter?

Also, I am one 4* BH away from a 450 BSSM so of you have counters involving him I’m down to hear those too. Again, thanks!!

I know that it might seem funny to players who are used to the soft Okoye/Thor meta where basically as long as you denied the opponent team AP you are pretty much guaranteed to win, but I find these kinds of challenges more puzzle-like and interesting. 

Going into a battle not certain of victory, having to consider the board layout and the possible risks of a move, trying to find the best strategy by considering your opponent team's strengths and weaknesses and a bit of luck I think puts both the "puzzle" and the "quest" back into MPQ in my humble opinion.

If you are interested in developing a strong defensive team, then you really should focus on building up your Bishop. Although I have heard reports that Worthy Cap, 5* Hawkeye and JJ are quite the headache on defense, I think in general Kitty/Grocket/Bishop are the current best defensive team, with the possible exception of high level Okoye/Dr. Strange/Bishop team but not as many players are running around with that team. 

Another solid partner for Bishop in the 4* realm would Peggy since she increases AP costs, there is a stronger likelihood that your Bishop will stun the opponent Bishop. The only issue is if he can survive long enough to stun Kitty next. A good 5* partner would be 5* Thor but it seems you have intentionally left yours under-leveled to take advantage of Okoye/Thor Deluxe meta to save health packs. Although to be honest, your Thor probably isn't at a high enough level to carry that team. 

Besides Bishop, Worthy Cap has quite a bit of potential.  I had a lot of fun in Worthy Cap PvP running him, Bishop, and 5* Thor together. If my Worthy Cap had more levels, I would definitely give it a go against Kitty/Bishop/Gritty just to see how it stacked up. Not sure it would be effective at all, but worth seeing how things turned out. 

BSSM and 5* Thor are quite effective against Kitty/Grocket teams in normal PvP events but against teams running Bishop/Grocket/Kitty I don't recommend using BSSM unless you have a viable Surfer since I am pretty sure (although please correct me if I am wrong) that BSSM's strike reduction is rendered inactive when he is stunned. 5* Thor/Surfer/BSSM usually don't have much difficulty handling that match up as long as you can keep BSSM from getting stunned. 

Once you get that final BSSM cover, you should be ok against Kitty/Grocket teams in normal PvP although you still need to be careful against higher level Kittys. You have to make sure she doesn't get yellow otherwise you might end up with a long drawn out match. Additionally with your Thor being under-leveled you are reducing the effectiveness of that team. His red actually ignores protect tiles but once she has your team doing only -1 damage I doubt 11K will be enough to down a 470+ Kitty as fast as you would like.  

While your roster definitely has a lot of room to grow, I think you have enough options that you should be able to successfully reach 1200. But as stated before, with the PvP meta being what it is, you are going to have to study up a bit or simply get lucky with your timing.