**** Mysterio (Quentin Beck) ****

tiomono

5/5/3

LavaManLee said:

tiomono said:

I just feel like people are hating on him because of low damage numbers.

Nope.  I'm hating on him because he is freaking slow and really has no place on any of my teams.

And that's ok if thats your opinion of him.

I would argue however that a character with a 7 ap cost, a 6 ap cost that accelerates the 7, and a passive that feeds the 6 ap, could only be considered slow because of low damage numbers.

Now no place on any of your teams is a very fair observation. He is not good teamed with strong blue users.

Jormagund

I wasn't thrilled by the experience of using him in shield training but I didn't find him terrible either, comfortable if slow.  Basically I ignored blue but took any AP I did get too keep IW invisible and then used Peggy's red/IW's green to do the damage.  His traps helped hurry things along but weren't essential.

Don't know if the people who lost the bout just had bad boards or just tried to brute force it rather than looking at the team's synergy?

tiomono

5/5/3

Jormagund said:

I wasn't thrilled by the experience of using him in shield training but I didn't find him terrible either, comfortable if slow.  Basically I ignored blue but took any AP I did get too keep IW invisible and then used Peggy's red/IW's green to do the damage.  His traps helped hurry things along but weren't essential.

Don't know if the people who lost the bout just had bad boards or just tried to brute force it rather than looking at the team's synergy?

I tend to ignore the other 2 characters and solely try out the new one. Treat it like a 1v3.

I like to see what the new ones can do solo so I know if they are a threat to deal with immediately when I face them or later in the match. 

The team choice for Mysterio did not have what I would describe as synergy.

Jormagund

tiomono said:

I tend to ignore the other 2 characters and solely try out the new one. Treat it like a 1v3.

I like to see what the new ones can do solo so I know if they are a threat to deal with immediately when I face them or later in the match. 

The team choice for Mysterio did not have what I would describe as synergy.

Yes, sorry poor choice of wording with synergy.  Definitely not a good synergy for the team but with him feeding IW yellow and going invisible himself it sort of worked.

Obviously I used him more as a support character, definitely wouldn't want to try him out solo

himatako

tiomono said:

But with his blue as is you are getting free damage plus a possible stun at no ap loss at all. He is converting to another color at a 1:1 ratio. 

I just feel like people are hating on him because of low damage numbers.

His passive automatically activates when you have 8 or more blue and it costs 5 blue to increase 5 yellow. This can be changed to an active power that says


For my next trick - 5 blue AP

Increases your yellow AP by 5 and deals X damage to the target enemy. If there are Y or more blue AP left after this, also stuns the target for Z turn.


This way, the result of the power is the same but you have more control over when to use it. If Gamora can stun two targets for only 6 AP, a weaker stun for 5AP doesn't sound too op imo. 

tiomono

5/5/3

himatako said:

tiomono said:

But with his blue as is you are getting free damage plus a possible stun at no ap loss at all. He is converting to another color at a 1:1 ratio. 

I just feel like people are hating on him because of low damage numbers.

His passive automatically activates when you have 8 or more blue and it costs 5 blue to increase 5 yellow. This can be changed to an active power that says


For my next trick - 5 blue AP

Increases your yellow AP by 5 and deals X damage to the target enemy. If there are Y or more blue AP left after this, also stuns the target for Z turn.


This way, the result of the power is the same but you have more control over when to use it. If Gamora can stun two targets for only 6 AP, a weaker stun for 5AP doesn't sound too op imo. 

Fair enough. With that change the only difference a passive makes is vs characters that do things on power use like dr strange or luke cage. They would probably  also add that the powers cost cannot be reduced.

ThaRoadWarrior

I find his ability to shuffle colors around interesting. Not too many characters specifically make purple, but typically you want purple to make something else like yellow, so I don’t know if it’s a killer implementation. Obvious partners are blue batteries like Vulture and Bishop, but then for a purple outlet, do you go with red hulk? One of the spider fam like Miles or Gwen? Main event? Not sure but I feel like he has a team out there someplace aside from the obvious bishop/okoye. Maybe something with Nightcrawler on it to get that Bamfinite working?

Yepyep

AlexR said:

Shield Training with him was tinykitty frustrating--- but I didn't come away way with "he's useless". He felt like he could actually be quite interesting ...in a different team. Someone was feeling seriously sadistic. Like, I was feeling like the game was trying to make a philosophical statement about the futility of life by deleting your blue anytime you get close to Peggy's blue.

It kinda goes back to my prior post. Blue is a very valuable colour for many characters-- so you can't just slap him on any random team, because chances are, this will happen: You can't use your best colour in favour of yellow, which we have very few good active users of in the tier.

...but on the other hand! With a constant stream of blue, he was constantly stunning the opponent. I can see a use for that, you just gotta actually put him on a team that does not need blue. Maybe run him on a Vulture team? Idk, would need to experiement more, but I'd still rate him above Talos and Emma Frost. Maybe he'll end up like 4* BW where I just needed some time to find a good synergy-based team that can work with what he can bring to the table.

His powers are arcane and hard to remember. But this matchup seems to have been devised to Itforce us to learn his powers. It took me quite a while to figure out why Peggy JUST COULDN'T GET TO 11 blue.

I'll likely never forget, now. Useless knowledge, because I'll NEVER use him, but this painful experience burned his kit into my brain...

It's kind of like being forced to learn the time schedule for a city bus. It'll never be accurate because of the randomness of other traffic. But somebody came up with it and they're proud enough of it to force us to learn it...

JHawkInc

himatako said:

tiomono said:

But with his blue as is you are getting free damage plus a possible stun at no ap loss at all. He is converting to another color at a 1:1 ratio. 

I just feel like people are hating on him because of low damage numbers.

His passive automatically activates when you have 8 or more blue and it costs 5 blue to increase 5 yellow. This can be changed to an active power that says


For my next trick - 5 blue AP

Increases your yellow AP by 5 and deals X damage to the target enemy. If there are Y or more blue AP left after this, also stuns the target for Z turn.


This way, the result of the power is the same but you have more control over when to use it. If Gamora can stun two targets for only 6 AP, a weaker stun for 5AP doesn't sound too op imo. 

If you do that, it lets you hoard until you have enough AP to stun the enemy team, and it benefits heavily from powers that reduce AP cost (suddenly you could be spending 3 blue to gain 5 yellow, and the smaller drain on the blue would make the stun easier to trigger).

The reality is that having it auto-activate is a balancing mechanism. Part of that is that it makes him harder to use with other blue users.

As a side note, it's kinda comical how much effort people are putting into avoiding using the new character in the one node meant to let you try out the new character.

Personally, I ignored the rest of my team and focused on Mysterio to try him out. He'd be pretty solid (not meta by any means) if his traps did 2-3x the damage.

Borstock

He feels like an invisible tapper. He hides and then pecks at you with his traps, which means you need an Okoye or Gritty. To me, he's MUCH better than a Talos or Emma, because he does actually work as an effective third wheel to meta characters. He's just not much on his own. 

Yepyep

Borstock said:

He feels like an invisible tapper. He hides and then pecks at you with his traps, which means you need an Okoye or Gritty. To me, he's MUCH better than a Talos or Emma, because he does actually work as an effective third wheel to meta characters. He's just not much on his own. 

I'm not the first to say it, but this is definitely the camp Coulson is in. I'm definitely open to being wrong about him being a gimmick. Lord knows I'm almost always wrong about what new characters are good on release!

himatako

JHawkInc said:

If you do that, it lets you hoard until you have enough AP to stun the enemy team, and it benefits heavily from powers that reduce AP cost (suddenly you could be spending 3 blue to gain 5 yellow, and the smaller drain on the blue would make the stun easier to trigger).

The reality is that having it auto-activate is a balancing mechanism. Part of that is that it makes him harder to use with other blue users.

While this is true, we already have a 5 AP 3 turn stun that is 3* Spider Man's blue power. Mysterio's stun only last 1 turn. You would have to spend 15 AP to stun the whole team, and just for one turn. Even when you reduces his AP cost to 3 AP, it will still cost 9 AP to stun 3 targets. Stunning 2 targets cost 6 AP, which is equal to Gamora before the AP reduction. 

One case I can see that this can be abused is when you tag him with IM40 and Shuri.  Use Mysterio's blue to gain yellow and then use IM40's yellow to gain more blue. If you have enough blue to stun the enemy's team for 2-turn, it might be possible to never let the enemy takes their turn. But this strategy needs a time to set up so I'm not sure if it's going to be that bad.

Even when this is a problem, they can always add "this power cost cannot be lowered to less than 5 AP" to his blue to prevent that. 

TPF Alexis

I didn't have much trouble with the Shield Training. Just focused on red and green, and picked up purple and yellow when convenient. Ended up spending most of the match with two, or even all three, of my team members invisible, and then just Force Bubbling or punching someone when I got the AP for it.

Waddles_Pines

Another problem I have is his yellow damages your team.  Are there any good powers that damage your own team (except Thanos)?  It's like they wanted to make him Konran (or whatever the big hand goon is called...).  

RickOShay

After playing a lot of battles in his PvP event, I'm liking his auto-conversion of blue to yellow AP.
Yes, you need to plan a team that doesn't rely on an active blue ability, but the yellow users may do exceptionally well: 
5*: Okoye, Thor, Kitty, 5CM, Doom, and even CW Cap, and OML (& 5* Storm?) have a much easier time getting to use their yellow powers.
4*: Need to test, but should do well with P4nther, AVenom, Nova, C4ge, 4*BW, and maybe Nico, Fury, and Bishop; although these 3 have good blue abilities that would suffer. 

By the way, curious how he plays with Namor. Use Namor purple to add lots of blue to the board, maybe even enough to earn the 'free' stun on your next turn, blue converts to yellow, play Mysterio's yellow so that you earn purple faster to repeat the process. These two could use a red, so maybe Chavez, Blade, Ironheart, Peggy, Sabretooth, or especially Shuri.

Fun to play, and a pain to fight against (not Bishop level of course). 

tiomono

5/5/3

Waddles_Pines said:

Another problem I have is his yellow damages your team.  Are there any good powers that damage your own team (except Thanos)?  It's like they wanted to make him Konran (or whatever the big hand goon is called...).  

Fastball special, but its pricey. I dont mind 3* Gambits black but I would not call it good.

If you are running Mysterios yellow at 3, his drain on your own team is minimal. It's just a bit more than one 3 way match from a 4* for both teams but your keeping mysterio topped off on health for when he takes hits when he is not invis. His yellow is more useful for converting the yellow matches to purple so he stays invis for the whole match.

He should be invis about as much as vulture is airborne. One or two turns max before he disappears into the mist again. 

I feel even with his low damage he is lower mid tier. Not nearly as awful as some feel.

ZootSax

tiomono said:

Waddles_Pines said:

Another problem I have is his yellow damages your team.  Are there any good powers that damage your own team (except Thanos)?  It's like they wanted to make him Konran (or whatever the big hand goon is called...).  

Fastball special, but its pricey. I dont mind 3* Gambits black but I would not call it good.

Sentry's old green used to do team damage and be good.  3* Hulk's black does team damage and enables Hulk Bombing & Hulk/KK/Mohawk to do their thing.  ...otherwise, it's a pretty short list.

Waddles_Pines

ZootSax said:

tiomono said:

Waddles_Pines said:

Another problem I have is his yellow damages your team.  Are there any good powers that damage your own team (except Thanos)?  It's like they wanted to make him Konran (or whatever the big hand goon is called...).  

Fastball special, but its pricey. I dont mind 3* Gambits black but I would not call it good.

Sentry's old green used to do team damage and be good.  3* Hulk's black does team damage and enables Hulk Bombing & Hulk/KK/Mohawk to do their thing.  ...otherwise, it's a pretty short list.

Yeah, I guess my real point was more along the lines of "why is this a thing"?  I just don't get the thought process behind adding a self damaging aspect to a power that's not OP to begin with (also looking at you Banner, Phoenix... that's in addition to direct damage to your team from other powers).  I know the damage is trivial, but can't come up for an argument as to why it's needed...ever...

tiomono

5/5/3

Waddles_Pines said:

ZootSax said:

tiomono said:

Waddles_Pines said:

Another problem I have is his yellow damages your team.  Are there any good powers that damage your own team (except Thanos)?  It's like they wanted to make him Konran (or whatever the big hand goon is called...).  

Fastball special, but its pricey. I dont mind 3* Gambits black but I would not call it good.

Sentry's old green used to do team damage and be good.  3* Hulk's black does team damage and enables Hulk Bombing & Hulk/KK/Mohawk to do their thing.  ...otherwise, it's a pretty short list.

Yeah, I guess my real point was more along the lines of "why is this a thing"?  I just don't get the thought process behind adding a self damaging aspect to a power that's not OP to begin with (also looking at you Banner, Phoenix... that's in addition to direct damage to your team from other powers).  I know the damage is trivial, but can't come up for an argument as to why it's needed...ever...

Banner helps my kitty beat teams that dont make their own specials.

Waddles_Pines

tiomono said:

Waddles_Pines said:

ZootSax said:

tiomono said:

Waddles_Pines said:

Another problem I have is his yellow damages your team.  Are there any good powers that damage your own team (except Thanos)?  It's like they wanted to make him Konran (or whatever the big hand goon is called...).  

Fastball special, but its pricey. I dont mind 3* Gambits black but I would not call it good.

Sentry's old green used to do team damage and be good.  3* Hulk's black does team damage and enables Hulk Bombing & Hulk/KK/Mohawk to do their thing.  ...otherwise, it's a pretty short list.

Yeah, I guess my real point was more along the lines of "why is this a thing"?  I just don't get the thought process behind adding a self damaging aspect to a power that's not OP to begin with (also looking at you Banner, Phoenix... that's in addition to direct damage to your team from other powers).  I know the damage is trivial, but can't come up for an argument as to why it's needed...ever...

Banner helps my kitty beat teams that dont make their own specials.

I applaud your ingenuity .  I never even thought about that.  Learn something new ever day.  I guess you can use Banner with Fatpin too   

Your next mission is to figure out how to use 5* Wasp