HoundofShadow said: I think the misunderstanding came from "retiring 4* land", which I last remembered.That explains why what I wrote didn't make sense.There are a lot of similarities between MPQ and other collectible "card" (match-3) or "character" game as far as dilution and useless character releases is concern: 1) It's more difficult to get what you want as more cards or characters are added in. 2) RNG. I believe the devs are also looking at how their competitors are dealing with these issues. However, those devs from other games don't seems to be stopping new releases despite feedbacks from players and they have been running the games since 2014/2015. Increasing CP gain is one solution. The problem is how many is enough for the vets? 50 CP a week will net the players an extra 104 LT or 130 Classic per year. Will that be enough?Making 5* easier to get? Since 5* is the top prize of the game, the devs are unlikely to make it easy. Again, how do you define easy? Add 5* covers in SCL 10 progression? Reduce the number of days needed from 90 days to 60 or 45 days to get 5* covers from daily login? Could it be Support that will turn your 5* into a 6*?What's the net effect of retiring new 4* release and making 5* easier to get? The gap between new players and vets will increase many fold, compared to now. How do you solve this? If your answer is increase the rewards that newer players get to speed up their 3* or 4* progression, then this will affect future character bundle prices, which is another source of income for them. The devs either reduce the price of their bundles or include more covers per bundle, which means taking a hit in their sales or ROI.
DAZ0273 said: HoundofShadow said: I think the misunderstanding came from "retiring 4* land", which I last remembered.That explains why what I wrote didn't make sense.There are a lot of similarities between MPQ and other collectible "card" (match-3) or "character" game as far as dilution and useless character releases is concern: 1) It's more difficult to get what you want as more cards or characters are added in. 2) RNG. I believe the devs are also looking at how their competitors are dealing with these issues. However, those devs from other games don't seems to be stopping new releases despite feedbacks from players and they have been running the games since 2014/2015. Increasing CP gain is one solution. The problem is how many is enough for the vets? 50 CP a week will net the players an extra 104 LT or 130 Classic per year. Will that be enough?Making 5* easier to get? Since 5* is the top prize of the game, the devs are unlikely to make it easy. Again, how do you define easy? Add 5* covers in SCL 10 progression? Reduce the number of days needed from 90 days to 60 or 45 days to get 5* covers from daily login? Could it be Support that will turn your 5* into a 6*?What's the net effect of retiring new 4* release and making 5* easier to get? The gap between new players and vets will increase many fold, compared to now. How do you solve this? If your answer is increase the rewards that newer players get to speed up their 3* or 4* progression, then this will affect future character bundle prices, which is another source of income for them. The devs either reduce the price of their bundles or include more covers per bundle, which means taking a hit in their sales or ROI. Maybe instead of lecturing the vets (and no I am not claiming to be one) you could put your hand in your pocket and support the Devs instead of your "I don't spend a dime" mentality? If not, I guess, don't lecture the vets or those who do spend on the game? Just an idea.
DyingLegend said: Absolutely correct that a new player will never be able to catch up. I've tried to get friends to play the game, but it's way too intimidating and the time commitment is waaaayyy to much.
GoldenArm said: Maybe they just need more vaults, with fewer characters in each.Like instead of just "Latest" and "Classic" (which mean precisely nothing atm as many older characters are in the Latest vault, and new-ish chars are in the Classic vault..), have a permanent "Spiderverse" vault, an "Avengers" vault, etc...In other words, give players a way to target characters somewhat.Newer players may never be able to champ ALL in-came characters, but at least you can build up a roster of your favourites.Essentially, make the game work like a comic book store. If you love the Fantastic 4 and dislike the X-Men, you can get everything related to FF and only dabble in X-men when something interesting pops up.Heck, this might even lead to some PVP variety long-term!
Vhailorx said: GoldenArm said: Maybe they just need more vaults, with fewer characters in each.Like instead of just "Latest" and "Classic" (which mean precisely nothing atm as many older characters are in the Latest vault, and new-ish chars are in the Classic vault..), have a permanent "Spiderverse" vault, an "Avengers" vault, etc...In other words, give players a way to target characters somewhat.Newer players may never be able to champ ALL in-came characters, but at least you can build up a roster of your favourites.Essentially, make the game work like a comic book store. If you love the Fantastic 4 and dislike the X-Men, you can get everything related to FF and only dabble in X-men when something interesting pops up.Heck, this might even lead to some PVP variety long-term! This would mitigate dilution, and is something I have suggested in the past (e.g. when vaulting was introduced). But it does nothing to fix bloat in the 4* tier. Basically the only way to move the needle now with a 4* release is with something like bishop. even good new releases like sabretooth and ronin will see little use because a 280 new 4* will never compete with a 340+ vintage 4* like Medusa or Carol. I think this is really hurting veteran interest in even roster building their 4*s.
tiomono said: Vhailorx said: GoldenArm said: Maybe they just need more vaults, with fewer characters in each.Like instead of just "Latest" and "Classic" (which mean precisely nothing atm as many older characters are in the Latest vault, and new-ish chars are in the Classic vault..), have a permanent "Spiderverse" vault, an "Avengers" vault, etc...In other words, give players a way to target characters somewhat.Newer players may never be able to champ ALL in-came characters, but at least you can build up a roster of your favourites.Essentially, make the game work like a comic book store. If you love the Fantastic 4 and dislike the X-Men, you can get everything related to FF and only dabble in X-men when something interesting pops up.Heck, this might even lead to some PVP variety long-term! This would mitigate dilution, and is something I have suggested in the past (e.g. when vaulting was introduced). But it does nothing to fix bloat in the 4* tier. Basically the only way to move the needle now with a 4* release is with something like bishop. even good new releases like sabretooth and ronin will see little use because a 280 new 4* will never compete with a 340+ vintage 4* like Medusa or Carol. I think this is really hurting veteran interest in even roster building their 4*s. I think sabretooth will get much more play from the 5* players than Carol or medusa. He is a really really really good counter to one of the biggest meta threats.I'm pretty sure the only 4's you will routinely see as a low level 5* player will be America Chavez, grocket, bishop, and sabretooth. I'm not sure what the game looks like when your 5*'s start getting 50 or more champ levels on them. But I imagine you won't be seeing many 4's beyond the 4 I listed.
One thing to keep in mind is the IP itself.
Mysterio may not be worth much mechanically, as a tool to advance your roster and increase your game experience.
But there's also the standpoint of "having and getting to play with Marvel characters." It's another character crossed off of Marvel's massive list, and that counts for something. I'm more than willing to admit he will never get used because his damage output is poor, but as a big Mysterio fan, he's in the game, and that's awesome. As a collector, I want every character, even ones I'm not familiar with, and so getting some that I really like is a big win.
Now, in the grand scheme of things, you'd want the two to overlap as much as possible (and with some, like Gambit and Kitty, they really knock it out of the park). But not having the mechanical value doesn't make the characters a waste, because there's still the collector's value. It's why people get hyped for characters just because of the name, and why we can regularly have "who do you want to add?" threads.
It's also why I think 4's are just not ever going to go away. You need that spot to just drop in a Black Cat or a Talos so you can add characters for the sake of adding Marvel characters without overly padding the 5* tier in the process. Really, if they were still doing lower releases, this would be a good place for 3* characters as well. I mean, do you really want to eliminate the tier and then have someone like the Wrecking Crew come along and start taking up 5* spots? they'd be GREAT 2*-3* characters, really, but I'm not sure we'd want them as a 5*, and that's where keeping more than one tier of character open for new releases holds a purpose.
It's a shame dilution is an issue at all, really. It'd be fun to go back in and drop in some characters to the 3* tier for the sake of adding more names to the list of available characters without filling in the more desirable high tier slots.
JHawkInc said: One thing to keep in mind is the IP itself.Mysterio may not be worth much mechanically, as a tool to advance your roster and increase your game experience.But there's also the standpoint of "having and getting to play with Marvel characters." It's another character crossed off of Marvel's massive list, and that counts for something. I'm more than willing to admit he will never get used because his damage output is poor, but as a big Mysterio fan, he's in the game, and that's awesome. As a collector, I want every character, even ones I'm not familiar with, and so getting some that I really like is a big win.Now, in the grand scheme of things, you'd want the two to overlap as much as possible (and with some, like Gambit and Kitty, they really knock it out of the park). But not having the mechanical value doesn't make the characters a waste, because there's still the collector's value. It's why people get hyped for characters just because of the name, and why we can regularly have "who do you want to add?" threads.It's also why I think 4's are just not ever going to go away. You need that spot to just drop in a Black Cat or a Talos so you can add characters for the sake of adding Marvel characters without overly padding the 5* tier in the process. Really, if they were still doing lower releases, this would be a good place for 3* characters as well. I mean, do you really want to eliminate the tier and then have someone like the Wrecking Crew come along and start taking up 5* spots? they'd be GREAT 2*-3* characters, really, but I'm not sure we'd want them as a 5*, and that's where keeping more than one tier of character open for new releases holds a purpose.It's a shame dilution is an issue at all, really. It'd be fun to go back in and drop in some characters to the 3* tier for the sake of adding more names to the list of available characters without filling in the more desirable high tier slots.
PiMacleod said:Which I why I still don't understand why they just won't release people in a tier that's fitting to their character. Black Cat HAD to be a 4*? Really?! This goes along with your Wrecking Crew example. Put people where they belong (mostly). Sure, the original releases... Leave them where they are. It would shake up too much to change Juggs for example (even though most people would love an actually accurate Juggs). But new characters... Put them where they go. If they belong around a 3* area, throw them there. Guess what? It won't hurt 4* dilution then, would it? In fact, it could become another feeder that's missing for existing 4*s!I think throwing more characters on the 2* and 3* tiers would give more variety to those tiers, add more feeders to each, and even though it would make the climb a little harder for newer people, it would also give them MORE feeders for already existing people. Feeders are pretty important, I'm sure we can all agree... And if doing this reduces the amount of 4* releases, this also reduces the ongoing dilution that keeps happening over time.I mean, like you said, what veteran is spending money on 4*s that don't impact the meta? The whales. But they will spend it on any release, because the collectors wanna have them all, no matter what. So there's not really much of a loss there, I'd think.
ZootSax said:...Only Star Lord (one of the newest 3*'s) uses charged tiles.