How do you counter Bishop?

Dragon_Nexus

Bishop is, IMO, one of the worst designed characters. He's feels completely over powered. Hit him twice and a character is stunned for 4 turns.

God help you if you get a cascade or your entire team is stunned.

Yeah this is a little venty, but I'm at 1850 in Shield Sim and every fight is against Bishop, Kitty and Rocket. I don't have a good BSSM and I cannot think of any 5* or even 4* character that can mitigate what Bishop does before he stuns me.

Rogue is annoying, the previous best tanky character, but you can generally be careful around her and strike when the moment's right. Bishop is just a stun machine. I'm completely at a loss.

Any suggestions? All I want to do is get to 2000 then stop, but I've run out of health packs trying to do it.

Pantera236

Not necessarily how to beat him but if they took his ap gain down just to 4 at least you could get three good hits on him before he starts stunning everybody

ThaRoadWarrior

I'm not sure i have a foolproof team for it myself. I started using Dazzler/Valkyrie in simulator against Gritty teams, but both are so low-leveled they don't tank much on my "good" teams (lvl 271 dazzler has 100% overlap with my only 5* champ Ghost Rider). If you can get Dazzler to eat some damage, then Valkyrie will make some strikes before Dazzler triggers the stun, which can lift an equal number of enemy strikes. I guess Thing could help there too - but the problem with Thing vs Kitty is that you need to eat a certain amount of damage to trigger it, and once it's been triggered once, those defend tiles make it harder for him to do it again. Valkyrie will make strikes all day though, and Kitty can't really keep up with them. so not really a huge saver of health packs, but maybe if you can arrange it so only dazzler takes damage?

Dormammu

I'm at 1100 points in the Sim currently, and every time I queue up a Kitty/Grocket/Bishop team they're worth 75 points, so I believe you when you say that's all you see at the top trying to get to 2k.

The man is an absolute menace. You can't even fight fire with fire and bring your own Gritty/Bishop team because of the fact that you go first; the AI Bishop is going to start stunning before you do and derail everything - usually because it's your Bishop that gets stunned.

I've had limited success with Gritty + 5Widow. If you can get Bishop to stun your Grocket it's not a big deal; Widow's black passive will then stun a random enemy. IF she stuns Bishop or Kitty you can get the upper hand, but even then it boils down to whose strikes get taken off the board quicker.

Rod5

With Gritty Bishop, if you boost match damage to hell then make the first move with Grocket then you are set, he jumps in front and stuns Grocket (so what), then your Bishop either stuns or kills theirs, and you’re good.

Steve111

Silver surfer or 5 Otto can’t be stunned... if you have them available 

Dragon_Nexus

Steve111 said:

Silver surfer or 5 Otto can’t be stunned... if you have them available 

Well damn that's a thought.

Shame SS is on the weaker end of the 5* roster and my Otto is only 5/2/4, so not completely useful.

I can give it a shot, I guess.

Mrcl25

The best way I found is bring my own Bishop, with 4Deadpool and Okoye. The match is over quickly, but your Bishop will need a health pack every fight or two. 

Borstock

I mirror match and intentionally avoid cascades on my first turn. Your Bishop will hurt theirs, then be stunned for 4 turns, but you can usually finish off their Bishop on your next move. It'll be a 2v2 until your Bishop comes back. Then you win. 

spidyjedi84

I go Prowler, Bishop, Medusa. Yes, your Bishop can get hurt early, but you can use any blue he generates with your Prowler to stun and damage that Bishop early. In the meantime, match Grockets tiles and turn the tide of the board in your favor by neutering Kitty. Medusa's there for healing or AP generation from other tiles matched. It's by no means a health pack neutral team, but it is a counter that I've found works against those teams. Prime blue and purple AP with boosts before the match as well.

KGB

Bishop/XPool/Peggy and boost 1 Blue.

You don't do enough match damage on turn 1 for the enemy Bishop to jump in front so you can target Kitty (though your damage is tiny).  Your Bishop will jump in front on their turn and start generating Blue. Once you have 11 Blue (Bishop absorbing 2 attacks) then Peggy stuns enemy Kitty/Bishop and it should be easy from there on out (unless Rocket somehow matches all Peggy's CDs before she make more CD's).

XPool's there to do more retal damage (which will make enemy Bishop jump to the front). But Peggy also ensures the enemy Bishop won't fire his blue since all enemy powers need more AP thanks to Peggy.

Likely need a health pack for your Bishop if they get a big cascade.

I used this team last season to go from 1800-2000 at the end of the season against those and other similar teams that use Rocket.

KGB

P.S. I don't have a really good working Okoye (3/4/2) but I've read that Okoye/XPool/Drax with boosted team ups (and making a team up match on turn 1) works really well to kill the enemy Bishop quickly.

The rockett

Bishop is the one character in the game that I feel needs to be looked at ASAP.  The way he is built is insane.  

Dormammu

KGB said:

P.S. I don't have a really good working Okoye (3/4/2) but I've read that Okoye/XPool/Drax with boosted team ups (and making a team up match on turn 1) works really well to kill the enemy Bishop quickly.

I used to use this team against Bishop but if you don't get the team-up AP on turn one it falls apart and Bishop stuns Okoye, dooming you.

justsing

The rockett said:

Bishop is the one character in the game that I feel needs to be looked at ASAP.  The way he is built is insane.  

I generally don't like calling for nerfs (I usually prefer counters), but Bishop needs a nerf.

HoundofShadow

Just take note of these magic numbers of Level 270 Bishop:

1) 902 damage against his teammates
2) 1804 damage (collected)
3) 451 damage against Bishop

I think 4* players shouldn't have any problem dealing with Bishop, unless their damages have been boosted.

Am I right to say that majority of the players who are affected by Bishop are 5* players? The one calling for his nerf are also 5* players?

Any battery + Stunner will do the trick against Bishop.

justsing

HoundofShadow said:

Just take note of these magic numbers of Level 270 Bishop:

1) 902 damage against his teammates
2) 1804 damage (collected)
3) 451 damage against Bishop

I think 4* players shouldn't have any problem dealing with Bishop, unless their damages have been boosted.

Am I right to say that majority of the players who are affected by Bishop are 5* players? The one calling for his nerf are also 5* players?

Any battery + Stunner will do the trick against Bishop.

I'm a 4* player, and I can deal with Bishop. I still think he should be nerfed.

His thresholds are way too low, especially if you compare them with other 4* characters that have thresholds like XFDP and Thing. Even a match-4 by 4*s will occasionally trigger his passive. He gains too much blue AP way too quickly once his passives get triggered.

My Bishop is level 290 with 17k health. He gains 5 blue AP whenever he takes 502+ damage. That’s ridiculous and OP.

HoundofShadow

Most max champed 4* match damage is 170/149/131 or match-3: 510 / 447 / 393.

To not trigger Bishop's blue passive on a match-3 by a max champed 4*, you should be facing level 293 Bishop(triggers on 514 damage) or higher.

His passive red (1804) requires a higher threshold compared to DPXF (1357) or the Thing (685). However, it can be built up. 

There are other methods of countering him like stunning, destroying blue aps, stopping ap gains etc. With a variety of methods to counter him, I don't see him needing a nerf.

justsing

HoundofShadow said:

Most max champed 4* match damage is 170/149/131 or match-3: 510 / 447 / 393.

To not trigger Bishop's blue passive on a match-3 by a max champed 4*, you should be facing level 293 Bishop(triggers on 514 damage) or higher.

His passive red (1804) requires a higher threshold compared to DPXF (1357) or the Thing (685). However, it can be built up. 

There are other methods of countering him like stunning, destroying blue aps, stopping ap gains etc. With a variety of methods to counter him, I don't see him needing a nerf.

I said match-4s by 4*s, not match-3s by max-champed 4*s.

His passive red has 2 thresholds: 1 for jumping in front, the other for dealing damage. I was referring to #1 (don’t care about #2), which is 902 compared to XFDP and Thing’s 1.3k at level 270. Him jumping in front means he takes the damage and generates the 5 blue AP. 

HoundofShadow

Majority of matches are match-3, unless it's created by abilities or luck.

Making a match-4 against Bishop that will trigger his blue passive is equivalent to triggering 4* Jean Grey's and 3* Loki's abilities. If you can make a match-5 but your opponent is Jean Grey, you will likely make a match-4 instead. Against Loki, you might make a match-3 instead of a match-4.

Solutions:
1) The player can choose to make a match-3 instead of match-4 against Bishop.
2) Make a match-4 against his teammates (requires 902 damage against his teammate to cause him to jump in front, which in turn triggers his blue passive). A match-4 by max champed 4* is 680, which won't trigger him to jump in front.

Another alternative is to use C&D to increase Bishop's threshold by reducing his power levels by 4. 

jp1

If every character that poses a challenge gets a nerf cry we are going to be in a very boring game world. Many solutions have been presented in this thread already. 

ThaRoadWarrior

I'm more interested in strategies than nerfs personally.