crackninja said: Just wanted to point out that the average player will likely never champ a single 4*, especially now with the state of dilution. The average person has a shot at champing a 5* within a year with dedicated play, but that is by no means the progress of the average player.The examples of people that have done it did not include extraordinary measures, but they did require a lot of time invested, again, well beyond what the average player spends playing this game.
n25philly said: Phumade said: n25philly said: Phumade said: n25philly said: Maybe the experience is different in a buy club where you are getting all kinds of bonuses, but every time I've spent money it feels like I get a small tick forward and i ended up feeling like kind of wasted it. I mainly like to make the occasional small purchase to support the game because I like it so much. Let me rephrase this since you want to make this an emotional argument vs a real dollars vs hours spent.What do you think the appropriate pricing for 800 hrs of entertainment should be? or let state it more bluntly. What does progress mean in a game like MPQ? Possessions in the electronic context are pointless, its not like I get to take my roster when I leave. Once you leave this game, your roster is worthless. So at the end, the only meaningful measure is how much money did you spend to waste those hours (win a match or got sniped you still got a rush/excitement). and trust me compared to other activities $500 dollars for 800 hours of real time use is a very very reasonable proposition.Your fallacy which a lot of people make is trying to measure progress against other players and compare your spend/effort to their accomplishments. but who cares about that in the long run? at the end day for my time and money MPQ is still the cheapest form of entertainment by a country mile does it really matter how I place or who I play for? I personally play this game because I enjoy it. Not everyone plays to be at the top. Hell, I didn't even champ my first 4* until right before day 1000. I hope with every legendary pull that I don't pull 5*'s. I guess I didn't get entertained because I didn't do it your way. Dilution is a real a major problem in this game and trust me there are way, way more people that are going to get frustrated and leave then there are ones that are going to throw $500-800 on it. LOL please you do you and enjoy the game how you want. but please don't assume that random arbitrary players can't achieve 39 5* covers in 360 game days with 2hrs per day and moderate spending (Sub $1 per hour of play) and don't make blanket statements on what is and isn't theoretically possible, cause the roadmap was laid out pretty explicitly.I said the exact same numbers, but hopefully in a more positively easily digestible fashion. Please note 3 examples of random people who have less than 360 game days have all given their testimonials as to their placements, dollar spend and current rosters states. So you should really put your feeling in the perspective of actual players going through that day 360 exp.If you don't think you can achieve those metrics. please say that YOU can't get it done, not that the AVG player can't get it done. because nothing those players have said pointed to an unfair or unlevel playing field.and speaking of dilution. How did Dilution slow any of those players from 3 5* champs? Near as i can tell all three players indicate that they can sustain their current level of performance on a 3 to 4 month basis. I don't see how dilution affected their ability to compete beyond essentials and loaners.I play plenty of events with a weak 144 loaner and plenty with a maxduped 479. my placements and scores really don't change in a meaningful way. Wow, you remind me of someone I knew on here that got himself banned for his attitude. I have to ask are you even reading my posts when you respond to them? Where did I say you can't get whatever by throwing money at it? My point through the whole is that you can't expect everyone to do that. That is all. You seem offended that I do not play the way you do.Seriously this entire post seems to be angry and directed at something I never even said. Like the other person it's kind of funny to read. It's like you are just trying to pick a fight.
Phumade said: n25philly said: Phumade said: n25philly said: Maybe the experience is different in a buy club where you are getting all kinds of bonuses, but every time I've spent money it feels like I get a small tick forward and i ended up feeling like kind of wasted it. I mainly like to make the occasional small purchase to support the game because I like it so much. Let me rephrase this since you want to make this an emotional argument vs a real dollars vs hours spent.What do you think the appropriate pricing for 800 hrs of entertainment should be? or let state it more bluntly. What does progress mean in a game like MPQ? Possessions in the electronic context are pointless, its not like I get to take my roster when I leave. Once you leave this game, your roster is worthless. So at the end, the only meaningful measure is how much money did you spend to waste those hours (win a match or got sniped you still got a rush/excitement). and trust me compared to other activities $500 dollars for 800 hours of real time use is a very very reasonable proposition.Your fallacy which a lot of people make is trying to measure progress against other players and compare your spend/effort to their accomplishments. but who cares about that in the long run? at the end day for my time and money MPQ is still the cheapest form of entertainment by a country mile does it really matter how I place or who I play for? I personally play this game because I enjoy it. Not everyone plays to be at the top. Hell, I didn't even champ my first 4* until right before day 1000. I hope with every legendary pull that I don't pull 5*'s. I guess I didn't get entertained because I didn't do it your way. Dilution is a real a major problem in this game and trust me there are way, way more people that are going to get frustrated and leave then there are ones that are going to throw $500-800 on it. LOL please you do you and enjoy the game how you want. but please don't assume that random arbitrary players can't achieve 39 5* covers in 360 game days with 2hrs per day and moderate spending (Sub $1 per hour of play) and don't make blanket statements on what is and isn't theoretically possible, cause the roadmap was laid out pretty explicitly.I said the exact same numbers, but hopefully in a more positively easily digestible fashion. Please note 3 examples of random people who have less than 360 game days have all given their testimonials as to their placements, dollar spend and current rosters states. So you should really put your feeling in the perspective of actual players going through that day 360 exp.If you don't think you can achieve those metrics. please say that YOU can't get it done, not that the AVG player can't get it done. because nothing those players have said pointed to an unfair or unlevel playing field.and speaking of dilution. How did Dilution slow any of those players from 3 5* champs? Near as i can tell all three players indicate that they can sustain their current level of performance on a 3 to 4 month basis. I don't see how dilution affected their ability to compete beyond essentials and loaners.I play plenty of events with a weak 144 loaner and plenty with a maxduped 479. my placements and scores really don't change in a meaningful way.
n25philly said: Phumade said: n25philly said: Maybe the experience is different in a buy club where you are getting all kinds of bonuses, but every time I've spent money it feels like I get a small tick forward and i ended up feeling like kind of wasted it. I mainly like to make the occasional small purchase to support the game because I like it so much. Let me rephrase this since you want to make this an emotional argument vs a real dollars vs hours spent.What do you think the appropriate pricing for 800 hrs of entertainment should be? or let state it more bluntly. What does progress mean in a game like MPQ? Possessions in the electronic context are pointless, its not like I get to take my roster when I leave. Once you leave this game, your roster is worthless. So at the end, the only meaningful measure is how much money did you spend to waste those hours (win a match or got sniped you still got a rush/excitement). and trust me compared to other activities $500 dollars for 800 hours of real time use is a very very reasonable proposition.Your fallacy which a lot of people make is trying to measure progress against other players and compare your spend/effort to their accomplishments. but who cares about that in the long run? at the end day for my time and money MPQ is still the cheapest form of entertainment by a country mile does it really matter how I place or who I play for? I personally play this game because I enjoy it. Not everyone plays to be at the top. Hell, I didn't even champ my first 4* until right before day 1000. I hope with every legendary pull that I don't pull 5*'s. I guess I didn't get entertained because I didn't do it your way. Dilution is a real a major problem in this game and trust me there are way, way more people that are going to get frustrated and leave then there are ones that are going to throw $500-800 on it.
Phumade said: n25philly said: Maybe the experience is different in a buy club where you are getting all kinds of bonuses, but every time I've spent money it feels like I get a small tick forward and i ended up feeling like kind of wasted it. I mainly like to make the occasional small purchase to support the game because I like it so much. Let me rephrase this since you want to make this an emotional argument vs a real dollars vs hours spent.What do you think the appropriate pricing for 800 hrs of entertainment should be? or let state it more bluntly. What does progress mean in a game like MPQ? Possessions in the electronic context are pointless, its not like I get to take my roster when I leave. Once you leave this game, your roster is worthless. So at the end, the only meaningful measure is how much money did you spend to waste those hours (win a match or got sniped you still got a rush/excitement). and trust me compared to other activities $500 dollars for 800 hours of real time use is a very very reasonable proposition.Your fallacy which a lot of people make is trying to measure progress against other players and compare your spend/effort to their accomplishments. but who cares about that in the long run? at the end day for my time and money MPQ is still the cheapest form of entertainment by a country mile does it really matter how I place or who I play for?
n25philly said: Maybe the experience is different in a buy club where you are getting all kinds of bonuses, but every time I've spent money it feels like I get a small tick forward and i ended up feeling like kind of wasted it. I mainly like to make the occasional small purchase to support the game because I like it so much.
No I read all of the posts and I'm tying to help the avg reader distinguish between1 jaded players view of how day 360 players progress vs.actual testimonials from players in that journey.Please feel free to enjoy or progress the game however you want to play it. but don't project your feelings on a a neutral population that is achieving theirs goals INSPITE of what you are complaining about.You are an experienced player with LINE experience. I just think its wrong for someone with your experience to paint a picture that is counter factual to what those other players have stated.I'm not arguing this as a whale. I'm saying as a day 360 player, I would have no issues compiling 39 5* covers, and that your statements only reflect your playstyle pref. As Bluewolf said, vet experience has no bearing or meaning as to what a fresh account can accomplish in 360 days. Let their ACTUAL results speak for themselves.
ThaRoadWarrior said: So much of the ability to earn rewards is about node access, so you definitely need a complete roster to earn enough resources to play well.
Phumade said: And what exactly do you think an avg play devotes to this game? I just said 800 hrs spread out over 360days. Thats just a little north of 2hrs a day.What do you feel an avg player actually devotes to this game or should we just make up the numbers in our mind?If you think the avg player only does 60 m a day, let me recast that player profile to 720 game days at 1 hr a day. or 1400 day player who devotes 30m a day.This is my exact point. You cannot claim an avg player profile unless your prepared to discuss engagement time/ dollar spend etc.I mean seriously is an Avg only doing 30m a day? that won't even get the mega whales through both grinds.
Phumade said: ThaRoadWarrior said: So much of the ability to earn rewards is about node access, so you definitely need a complete roster to earn enough resources to play well. Far be it from me to argue with anyone's actual testimonial, but it changes to whole complexion of the post when its pointed out. Your using "complete roster" to infer champed status. But It should be pointed out to the avg reader, that actually you can play the node with 1 cover
ThaRoadWarrior said: I’m not really implying champ status. But there are nuances to how one does well at this game (and by this game, I’m meaning both the core mechanic of gem matching level to level as well as the meta game of roster building through resource acquisition) that are bigger than just having 1 cover. Which if you’ve been playing anything like as long as you say, I’m sure you are already aware and are just being argumentative. But for your straw man “average reader,” I’ll elaborate.you need at least one cover to access the node. If you are playing at a high SCL in story, which you should be if you want to maximize your resource acquisition potential, you need better than that. You need a character that can at worst survive the node, if not at best actually help you. Nothing in the game is as easy to get on purpose, when you want it, as a specific 3* character. Bonus heroes at that tier are highly reliable. 4* characters are much harder to get on purpose, but not impossible. 4* play is very attainable, and meta 4*s can be chased in a matter of weeks or perhaps months if you need one to counter some otherwise challenging meta. 3* characters play up really well. The 4* transition definitely snowballs after your first one if you spend as you go and get covers frequently. This is not the case when you transition to 5* play. A low covered 5* is a liability on required nodes-even with other champions, winning at all is not a guaranteed proposition at SCL9. So yes, 1 cover let’s you attempt the node, but it does not mean you will succeed. Champing “the wrong 5*” can actually make things very hard for you in PVP. The delta between the good ones, okay ones, and bad ones is wild. That it can take a human year, 1/80th of a person’s actual lifespan to grow another one, is crazy. Yet here we all are.
I’m not really implying champ status. But there are nuances to how one does well at this game (and by this game, I’m meaning both the core mechanic of gem matching level to level as well as the meta game of roster building through resource acquisition) that are bigger than just having 1 cover. Which if you’ve been playing anything like as long as you say, I’m sure you are already aware and are just being argumentative. But for your straw man “average reader,” I’ll elaborate.
crackninja said: Phumade said: And what exactly do you think an avg play devotes to this game? I just said 800 hrs spread out over 360days. Thats just a little north of 2hrs a day.What do you feel an avg player actually devotes to this game or should we just make up the numbers in our mind?If you think the avg player only does 60 m a day, let me recast that player profile to 720 game days at 1 hr a day. or 1400 day player who devotes 30m a day.This is my exact point. You cannot claim an avg player profile unless your prepared to discuss engagement time/ dollar spend etc.I mean seriously is an Avg only doing 30m a day? that won't even get the mega whales through both grinds. I would guess the average player plays 20 minutes a day. I made that up in my mind at your request, but it's my honest guess.Time spent and rewards are not linear. Some rewards are front loaded, and many are backloaded.Time spent isn't even equally valuable for different players for many reasons, so trying to build a simple model to set expectations isn't terribly useful.As far as spending goes, from what I have seen (and this could be totally off, as I'm just one person), extremely casual players still spend regularly. I suspect they may actually spend more than most dedicated grinders who just don't see the value in spending.
ThaRoadWarrior said: While we’re breaking arguments down, it seems like you keep leaning on the experiences of 1500 Day players who start over and are basically doing New Game +. You’d have to try pretty hard to convince me those are the same “average day 360 players” you also continue to reference.
MoonKnight said: @abenness she is actually 5/1/3. So the black is fine, but still a bad distribution for champing. I have been EXTREMELY lucky in the classics pulling her. I pulled 45 times from a mini hoard in the one store to rule them all (Thor/Okoye/kitty) and all I got was one Okoye red. But other than that, from classics and the small time she was in latests. I think iso is the biggest issue for me now for hoarding. Trying to get 4* to 209 and getting the recently released 4* to 209 takes a ton of iso, and it doesn’t seem like even with a lot of play I’m going fast enough at the moment. I also don’t want to test MMR with one champed 5* with Kitty floating around. All I’ll see is Gritty with a champed 5* instead of 330ish.
ThaRoadWarrior said: Who can keep up with the dizzying intellect of this master debater? I’m over it.
Phumade said: The dude clearly stated he was t25 ish in most of his pvp events and t10 in scl7 (pve?). He wasn’t late bracket sniping to goose his placements. Those are all pretty typical results in my eyes.
DAZ0273 said: AgainstDilution .This really is the main thing and I am so amazed it has come full circle to where we are again. We can talk about extra clears etc but a new player knows nothing if that.
Phumade said: DAZ0273 said: AgainstDilution .This really is the main thing and I am so amazed it has come full circle to where we are again. We can talk about extra clears etc but a new player knows nothing if that. I'll just say this simply. Dilution is only bad if you think from the perspective of having ever char blah blah. But it has no affect on your ability to play and compete in any tier beyond mandatory essentials. 1 cover vs 13 cover champ is meaningless in the context of escalating champion levels. Any one single loaner can be surrounded by high level 3*/4* champs that cover any weakness thourgh scl7. And because placement is SELF selected through Shield ranks (You can always drop to a winning easier scl, and its been discussed before whats the best tradeoff between placement, SCL and progression for any one roster state. TL/DR: I could care less about the pace of new release. The chars really don't make a difference in placement or are relatively easy to plan around. They are just personal play trophies