Supports only apply to one version of a character

2

Comments

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
    Right. There have been (at least) 3 suggestions and all have problems. 

    1. Dupe supports that you can apply to any characters

    2. Dupe supports that you can only apply to dupe characters

    3. Have your single support apply to all versions of a character you own. 

    I was pointing out how all three proposed solutions come with issues. I do agree that it would be nice to be able to rotate between all versions of a character we have without having to dig through the roster. That seems to be the best solution to this problem, and wouldn’t effect how I believe supports are intended to work. 
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    Right. There have been (at least) 3 suggestions and all have problems. 

    1. Dupe supports that you can apply to any characters

    2. Dupe supports that you can only apply to dupe characters

    3. Have your single support apply to all versions of a character you own. 

    I was pointing out how all three proposed solutions come with issues. I do agree that it would be nice to be able to rotate between all versions of a character we have without having to dig through the roster. That seems to be the best solution to this problem, and wouldn’t effect how I believe supports are intended to work. 
    I don't understand why the 3rd option is bad? Are there objective problems with it that I'm failing to see, or are people who commented previously that they're against such a solution simply expressing their subjective opinions? 
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    Right. There have been (at least) 3 suggestions and all have problems. 

    1. Dupe supports that you can apply to any characters

    2. Dupe supports that you can only apply to dupe characters

    3. Have your single support apply to all versions of a character you own. 

    I was pointing out how all three proposed solutions come with issues. I do agree that it would be nice to be able to rotate between all versions of a character we have without having to dig through the roster. That seems to be the best solution to this problem, and wouldn’t effect how I believe supports are intended to work. 
    I do not know why 3 is an issue.  I believe that they should cross over to the dupe character.  I am not sure what Smokey is asking for but I believe he is asking for the same thing. 

    As for dupe supports, i am not asking for dupe supports. I can see the issue with that for sure but if the Dev team tells us that this is working as intended then the question back to them is why cannot we have a dupe support for our dupe character that we have on the main one. We just need to wait for them to get back to us on why this is happening and then ask more questions.  
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2019
    Kolence said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Right. There have been (at least) 3 suggestions and all have problems. 

    1. Dupe supports that you can apply to any characters

    2. Dupe supports that you can only apply to dupe characters

    3. Have your single support apply to all versions of a character you own. 

    I was pointing out how all three proposed solutions come with issues. I do agree that it would be nice to be able to rotate between all versions of a character we have without having to dig through the roster. That seems to be the best solution to this problem, and wouldn’t effect how I believe supports are intended to work. 
    I don't understand why the 3rd option is bad? Are there objective problems with it that I'm failing to see, or are people who commented previously that they're against such a solution simply expressing their subjective opinions? 
    The problem is if you want one support on Grocket A and a different support on Grocket B, you can’t have that option despite them being separate characters. You have to have the same support on all versions and I’m sure some people would complain about that.  For example, some people have a champ professor X and a winfinite version built differently. They might like having the option to have different supports on these different characters that serve different functions.  
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think purplemur found the issue. Just remove the 2 hour restriction and let the people swap when they want, as often as they want.

    Top placement is so time dependant that it would force tough decisions on players with dupe characters. No one support is the absolute best in all situations. But I cannot see a reason why the timer exists. I'm not sure how it could be exploited if it were not there. But I just enjoy the game and am not really into minmaxing every action I take so I'm probably missing something.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's quite obvious why this is being suggested.  By allowing dupe character to share the same support or allow dupe supports to be rostered, the top players won't have to spend time to use healthpack to revive R4G with the best support available after being Thanos-ed multiple time. Also, since the game will auto-switch to the next highest health R4G, the top end players won't have to spend time switching to the better R4G.

    Allowing this will only widen the gap between the top players and the rest of the players trying to catch up in placement. Instead of using 1 R4G to speed play PvE, it become compulsory to have more than 1 R4G plus the right support to fight for placement.

    By allowing dupe support to be rostered, this could be abused potentially.

    Again, this suggestion is something that benefits only the top x% players, who are speed playing PvE and are generally bored of MPQ and can't wait to finish MPQ as soon as possible.

    Again, this could be implemented if the devs can come up with something to monetise this "problem".




  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    It's quite obvious why this is being suggested.  By allowing dupe character to share the same support or allow dupe supports to be rostered, the top players won't have to spend time to use healthpack to revive R4G with the best support available after being Thanos-ed multiple time. Also, since the game will auto-switch to the next highest health R4G, the top end players won't have to spend time switching to the better R4G.

    Allowing this will only widen the gap between the top players and the rest of the players trying to catch up in placement. Instead of using 1 R4G to speed play PvE, it become compulsory to have more than 1 R4G plus the right support to fight for placement.

    By allowing dupe support to be rostered, this could be abused potentially.

    Again, this suggestion is something that benefits only the top x% players, who are speed playing PvE and are generally bored of MPQ and can't wait to finish MPQ as soon as possible.

    Again, this could be implemented if the devs can come up with something to monetise this "problem".




    If you think health packs is a problem then you don’t know top end PVE players.  Either they buy them and don’t care or have enough characters on their roster, I have 41 champed 2* so I never have to buy a health pack for them, 

    Also, if you think allowing the support will separate top end PVE players from not top end then again you do not understand top end PVE players.  It’s all about the timers, boosting where needed and a few other things.  
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    It's quite obvious why this is being suggested.  By allowing dupe character to share the same support or allow dupe supports to be rostered, the top players won't have to spend time to use healthpack to revive R4G with the best support available after being Thanos-ed multiple time. Also, since the game will auto-switch to the next highest health R4G, the top end players won't have to spend time switching to the better R4G.

    Allowing this will only widen the gap between the top players and the rest of the players trying to catch up in placement. Instead of using 1 R4G to speed play PvE, it become compulsory to have more than 1 R4G plus the right support to fight for placement.

    By allowing dupe support to be rostered, this could be abused potentially.

    Again, this suggestion is something that benefits only the top x% players, who are speed playing PvE and are generally bored of MPQ and can't wait to finish MPQ as soon as possible.

    Again, this could be implemented if the devs can come up with something to monetise this "problem".




    If you think health packs is a problem then you don’t know top end PVE players.  Either they buy them and don’t care or have enough characters on their roster, I have 41 champed 2* so I never have to buy a health pack for them, 

    Also, if you think allowing the support will separate top end PVE players from not top end then again you do not understand top end PVE players.  It’s all about the timers, boosting where needed and a few other things.  
    I agree with all of this. The issue is not health packs. The issue is:

    1. I have a support that allows faster clears.
    2. The game is automatically switching out the faster character with a slower one, resulting in slower clears
    3. Rummaging through my roster to reselect the faster character, results in slower clears. 

    Nothing to do with packs. And allowing any of the proposed suggestions will not upset the apple cart. Top players will be top players either way. 

    I agree with Rockett about what the problem is which is why I say supports are probably working as intended and the real issue is around the game auto selecting characters for us. My suggestion was to have something in the options we could set to let us decide if we want the game auto-swapping lower heath characters. Turn that option off and it will always keep the version of the character you selected, regardless of their health. A quicker way to cycle through all versions of a character was my other suggestion. And saved teams is another suggestion (that is long over due anyway!). But I’m not down with the suggestions to change supports for the other issues it creates. 
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    Kolence said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Right. There have been (at least) 3 suggestions and all have problems. 

    1. Dupe supports that you can apply to any characters

    2. Dupe supports that you can only apply to dupe characters

    3. Have your single support apply to all versions of a character you own. 

    I was pointing out how all three proposed solutions come with issues. I do agree that it would be nice to be able to rotate between all versions of a character we have without having to dig through the roster. That seems to be the best solution to this problem, and wouldn’t effect how I believe supports are intended to work. 
    I don't understand why the 3rd option is bad? Are there objective problems with it that I'm failing to see, or are people who commented previously that they're against such a solution simply expressing their subjective opinions? 
    The problem is if you want one support on Grocket A and a different support on Grocket B, you can’t have that option despite them being separate characters. You have to have the same support on all versions and I’m sure some people would complain about that.  For example, some people have a champ professor X and a winfinite version built differently. They might like having the option to have different supports on these different characters that serve different functions.  
    Well, Grocket A and Grocket B are actually the same character. You can't put both as part of the same team.

    Again, I see no reason why each of the duplicates shouldn't take advantage of the one support you decided to assign to that character. The same restriction on team composition also prevents doubling or tripling of the support effects someone mentioned earlier (if I understood that right).

    And people will complain just about anything anyway, so... :)
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kolence said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Kolence said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Right. There have been (at least) 3 suggestions and all have problems. 

    1. Dupe supports that you can apply to any characters

    2. Dupe supports that you can only apply to dupe characters

    3. Have your single support apply to all versions of a character you own. 

    I was pointing out how all three proposed solutions come with issues. I do agree that it would be nice to be able to rotate between all versions of a character we have without having to dig through the roster. That seems to be the best solution to this problem, and wouldn’t effect how I believe supports are intended to work. 
    I don't understand why the 3rd option is bad? Are there objective problems with it that I'm failing to see, or are people who commented previously that they're against such a solution simply expressing their subjective opinions? 
    The problem is if you want one support on Grocket A and a different support on Grocket B, you can’t have that option despite them being separate characters. You have to have the same support on all versions and I’m sure some people would complain about that.  For example, some people have a champ professor X and a winfinite version built differently. They might like having the option to have different supports on these different characters that serve different functions.  
    Well, Grocket A and Grocket B are actually the same character. You can't put both as part of the same team.

    Again, I see no reason why each of the duplicates shouldn't take advantage of the one support you decided to assign to that character. The same restriction on team composition also prevents doubling or tripling of the support effects someone mentioned earlier (if I understood that right).

    And people will complain just about anything anyway, so... :)
    Well since you are using the one-per-team restriction as your definition of same character...

    Are Angel and Archangel the same character? Thor and Thoress? Banner and Cho? How about Parker Spidey, Black Suit Spidey, 1* Spidey and Bag-Man? Because you can’t have any of them on the same team either. Having a support assigned to Black Suit auto-assigned to Parker, Infinity War, 3* Spidey and dupe 3* Spidey would just be awful.

    Similarly, maybe I want my champ professor with a support that floods the board with specials to buff, while my undercovered winfinite version does NOT want specials on the board (which is why he is undercovered) because they get in the way of his match 5s. Sure I can’t play both professors together, but they are different characters. 
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2019
    Oh come on. Where did I say that? The definition is if their Name and (Parenthesis Text) both match, they're the same character. At least that seems to be how supports view it. Some of them are expressly restricted to just one version of the same character Name.

    There are other restrictions and exceptions, but that's for the devs to try to explain, or not.

    I disagree with how Cho can block the Hulk from the team, or why Thoress couldn't be in the same team with any other Thor "Odinson". Or how Angel and Archangel can be in the same team but teen Jean and Phoenix can't.

    I guess when you combine comic logic and dev logic and Marvel other reasons, anything is possible...  :p

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kolence said:
    Oh come on. Where did I say that?
    Here...

    Kolence said:
    Well, Grocket A and Grocket B are actually the same character. You can't put both as part of the same team.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm aware the top players have tons of HPs. Naturally, buying healthpacks is not an issue.

    These are suggested to reduce the number of taps and clicks in the game. That's why it's more rote playing. I don't think the devs want to encourage that.

    In terms of priority, this probably rank way down the list, unless they can capitalize on it somehow.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm aware the top players have tons of HPs. Naturally, buying healthpacks is not an issue.

    These are suggested to reduce the number of taps and clicks in the game. That's why it's more rote playing. I don't think the devs want to encourage that.

    In terms of priority, this probably rank way down the list, unless they can capitalize on it somehow.
    Really?   It took almost 1 year to get rid of tapping and they were quite until many of us blew up the forums and Discord with this issue.  

    Also, if they don’t want to make the game faster then get rid of top end rewards.  
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
    One possible solution would be to have supports act like they are equipped on all copies of the same character, unless the user has equipped different supports on them.  That would allow players to use multiple copies with the same support if they want, and it would also allow players to set different supports on their dupes if they wanted.  

    The only downside is the dev time spent on it.  Personally I’d rather have the dev time spent on features that affect a larger portion of the player base.  
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    Are Angel and Archangel the same character? Thor and Thoress? Banner and Cho? How about Parker Spidey, Black Suit Spidey, 1* Spidey and Bag-Man? Because you can’t have any of them on the same team either. Having a support assigned to Black Suit auto-assigned to Parker, Infinity War, 3* Spidey and dupe 3* Spidey would just be awful.
    Not trying to contradict your larger point, but you can pair up Angel and Archangel on the same team.
  • Sm0keyJ0e
    Sm0keyJ0e Posts: 730 Critical Contributor
    Great points being brought up from all sides here. I really think the issue boils down to this:
    Daredevil217 said:

    I agree with Rockett about what the problem is which is why I say supports are probably working as intended and the real issue is around the game auto selecting characters for us. My suggestion was to have something in the options we could set to let us decide if we want the game auto-swapping lower heath characters. Turn that option off and it will always keep the version of the character you selected, regardless of their health. A quicker way to cycle through all versions of a character was my other suggestion. And saved teams is another suggestion (that is long over due anyway!). But I’m not down with the suggestions to change supports for the other issues it creates. 

    I don't understand why the game tries to pick characters for you. What if I want to whittle down the health of only one version of the character? Why does the game make recommendations like this? I've seen it elsewhere like in boss fights: Hawkeye or Black Widow is the required toon, and the game goes off and fetches a 2* or 3* version when I have a perfectly usable 5* version. Seems like an old mechanic that is now getting in the way of duplicate toons. 

    They have structured PVE in such a way that speed and time is important. That's all there is to it. So yes, every advantage you can get is both wanted and in fact needed. I cannot waste time sifting through my roster of 330+ toons trying to find the "right" version of a toon in PVE if I want to compete.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Great points being brought up from all sides here. I really think the issue boils down to this:
    Daredevil217 said:

    I agree with Rockett about what the problem is which is why I say supports are probably working as intended and the real issue is around the game auto selecting characters for us. My suggestion was to have something in the options we could set to let us decide if we want the game auto-swapping lower heath characters. Turn that option off and it will always keep the version of the character you selected, regardless of their health. A quicker way to cycle through all versions of a character was my other suggestion. And saved teams is another suggestion (that is long over due anyway!). But I’m not down with the suggestions to change supports for the other issues it creates. 

    I don't understand why the game tries to pick characters for you. What if I want to whittle down the health of only one version of the character? Why does the game make recommendations like this? I've seen it elsewhere like in boss fights: Hawkeye or Black Widow is the required toon, and the game goes off and fetches a 2* or 3* version when I have a perfectly usable 5* version. Seems like an old mechanic that is now getting in the way of duplicate toons. 

    They have structured PVE in such a way that speed and time is important. That's all there is to it. So yes, every advantage you can get is both wanted and in fact needed. I cannot waste time sifting through my roster of 330+ toons trying to find the "right" version of a toon in PVE if I want to compete.
    I have had the game offer up my single cover 1* hawkeye vs a boss instead of my max champed 3* 2* or my 1-5-1 level 300 5* hawkeye. So yeah......that's an issue.
  • MegaBee
    MegaBee Posts: 1,018 Chairperson of the Boards
    jamesh said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Are Angel and Archangel the same character? Thor and Thoress? Banner and Cho? How about Parker Spidey, Black Suit Spidey, 1* Spidey and Bag-Man? Because you can’t have any of them on the same team either. Having a support assigned to Black Suit auto-assigned to Parker, Infinity War, 3* Spidey and dupe 3* Spidey would just be awful.
    Not trying to contradict your larger point, but you can pair up Angel and Archangel on the same team.
    Whoa.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,495 Chairperson of the Boards
    Truthfully it works both ways.  Most of the times its better to have the AI default to the biggest dupe. and there are just as many times where you want the AI to pick weakest dupe to be fodder.  It all just depends on what you need to accomplish.  In Pvp, its much better to have the AI pick the weak dupe when your climbing and when your hopping its better to have it pick the max champ version.  Same arguments can be made in pve.

    The overwhelming majority of rosters, don't have the roster width, or the experience to leverage that fact into a time advantage.  But there are enough players and rosters with the rosters and experience to take advantage of that fact, that devs should make that a USER toggle option for scl 9 players.  It should pick dupes based on either Highest dupe, Lowest Dupe, or EXACT last char used.

    From my perspective its no different than seeing the AP trays during a match.  Sometimes, i need to monitor ap levels, and sometimes it just easier to play without tray indicator.  but it should always be a user selectable option


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