3.3 Release
Comments
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I agree about the spoilers and consistency. But we also both know that we are not necessarily going to "behave" and have nothing negative to say about early cards. That's still not an excuse for no spoilers. 😅Mburn7 said:
We've been asking for this for every set Oktagon has worked on (Hibernium, for all their flaws, was pretty consistent posting the card gallery 2-3 weeks before release and spoiling new abilities and stuff)Brakkis said:Brigby said:Hi Everyone. I'm already working on the Pre-Release Notes and it should be ready to be posted later this week, which means if everything goes according to plan, then the 3.3 update should hopefully arrive next week!
If anything changes though, then I'll be sure to let everyone know as quickly as I can
You guys realize you can announce upcoming patches, especially ones with new sets, more than a week before they drop right? You can and you just choose not to. Building hype is a thing.
The standard excuse is that they don't want to have to change something after spoiling it and piss everyone off.
We keep saying that it's ok, but some higher up doesn't seem to care. *sigh*
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So you're telling me that they, as the creators of the game, don't have access to the images that are used in the game without running it on a phone and taking screenshots of each card?ManiiNames said:There is some real work involved in making the screenshots. I know that creating ~140 SS, cropping them appropriately, generating a preview / full-size image, storing them somewhere and then creating hyperlinks for everything is time consuming. Then having to do it again because José updated something across X number of cards. That's probably why they dumped it all through Facebook last time, it was something they were familiar with and FB is already designed to hold and publish images.2 -
Mburn7 said:
We've been asking for this for every set Oktagon has worked on (Hibernium, for all their flaws, was pretty consistent posting the card gallery 2-3 weeks before release and spoiling new abilities and stuff)Brakkis said:Brigby said:Hi Everyone. I'm already working on the Pre-Release Notes and it should be ready to be posted later this week, which means if everything goes according to plan, then the 3.3 update should hopefully arrive next week!
If anything changes though, then I'll be sure to let everyone know as quickly as I can
You guys realize you can announce upcoming patches, especially ones with new sets, more than a week before they drop right? You can and you just choose not to. Building hype is a thing.
The standard excuse is that they don't want to have to change something after spoiling it and piss everyone off.
We keep saying that it's ok, but some higher up doesn't seem to care. *sigh*
Funny thing - It's not up to Oktagon to post these spoilers. It's up to D3. They're the publisher. That's their job. They are responsible for marketing and communication. The fault is on them for sitting on their hands until the week prior to the release with the information. If Oktagon isn't revealing the content to D3 for the spoilers to go up earlier, that is still on D3 to get on them and get the information sooner.2 -
Hmm, good point. I'm never quite sure where the administrative line is between the two companies (besides the obvious Oktagon writes the code and D3Go mans the forums). If it is D3 that is in charge of the spoilers I have absolutely no idea why it takes so long to get any info. Should be as simple as "hey, email me a pic of the new guildmages", right?Brakkis said:Mburn7 said:
We've been asking for this for every set Oktagon has worked on (Hibernium, for all their flaws, was pretty consistent posting the card gallery 2-3 weeks before release and spoiling new abilities and stuff)Brakkis said:Brigby said:Hi Everyone. I'm already working on the Pre-Release Notes and it should be ready to be posted later this week, which means if everything goes according to plan, then the 3.3 update should hopefully arrive next week!
If anything changes though, then I'll be sure to let everyone know as quickly as I can
You guys realize you can announce upcoming patches, especially ones with new sets, more than a week before they drop right? You can and you just choose not to. Building hype is a thing.
The standard excuse is that they don't want to have to change something after spoiling it and piss everyone off.
We keep saying that it's ok, but some higher up doesn't seem to care. *sigh*
Funny thing - It's not up to Oktagon to post these spoilers. It's up to D3. They're the publisher. That's their job. They are responsible for marketing and communication. The fault is on them for sitting on their hands until the week prior to the release with the information. If Oktagon isn't revealing the content to D3 for the spoilers to go up earlier, that is still on D3 to get on them and get the information sooner.0 -
Changing pre-relese would have been good for some cards (baral...)Mburn7 said:
We've been asking for this for every set Oktagon has worked on (Hibernium, for all their flaws, was pretty consistent posting the card gallery 2-3 weeks before release and spoiling new abilities and stuff)Brakkis said:Brigby said:Hi Everyone. I'm already working on the Pre-Release Notes and it should be ready to be posted later this week, which means if everything goes according to plan, then the 3.3 update should hopefully arrive next week!
If anything changes though, then I'll be sure to let everyone know as quickly as I can
You guys realize you can announce upcoming patches, especially ones with new sets, more than a week before they drop right? You can and you just choose not to. Building hype is a thing.
The standard excuse is that they don't want to have to change something after spoiling it and piss everyone off.
We keep saying that it's ok, but some higher up doesn't seem to care. *sigh*
Hibernume spoiled earlier, but resist to change cards pre-release even whe the player saw disaster comming.0 -
Even if they can't release the spoilers beforehand, they could probably make some vague cryptic hints that wouldn't violate protocol and still stir up our interest. Heck just any form of communication will keep us content. It always feels like we have to grab our pitchforks before we get any feedback.
Some nifty quotes to have Brigby relay, which can avoid consumer dissatisfaction:
"Hey guys, we are planning on tentatively releasing the next set by [any date from now until the end of time we will be happy]"
And if there are delays
"So sorry guys, going to be a bit longer because [say reason or make something up we will probably still believe you], thanks for your patience!"
A simple bit of communication can go a long ways0 -
Hell, forget about individual card spoilers... how about just telling us about how the guild mechanics were implemented for PQ? Riot, spectacle, addendum, adapt, afterlife... some are straightforward but some are not. There's no way these things weren't decided on weeks ago, right?
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ManiiNames said:There is some real work involved in making the screenshots. I know that creating ~140 SS, cropping them appropriately, generating a preview / full-size image, storing them somewhere and then creating hyperlinks for everything is time consuming. Then having to do it again because José updated something across X number of cards. That's probably why they dumped it all through Facebook last time, it was something they were familiar with and FB is already designed to hold and publish images.
There was a positively fascinating article I read a couple years back about what actually goes into making screenshots that get distributed as marketing material. Wish I still had a link to it, but it's kind of horrific. I would think that this would be a little easier than that, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if I was wrong.I'd also like to mention that... after a lot of years watching reality shows about failing businesses, it is really depressing to me what people think good marketing is. There is a HUGE gap between what someone who's got their business together can do and what a trained marketing professional can do (my wife's got a bachelor's in Marketing, so I freaking love picking her brain; it's fascinating).
That being said, it's rough for us. We're probably the last group of people they worry about marketing to. We're already engaged enough in the product that we're here on the forums and posting about it. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of us also really like paper Magic, even if we can't play it as much as we want. We already knew that a new set of cards was inbound. Short of a card gallery, which is probably way more time consuming than we think... *shrugs*
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Take this with a grain of salt, because I'm only involved in one portion of the entire marketing/communications process, but when it comes to teasing or unveiling content, it's more of an involved process than most people probably think; to no fault of their own.
The biggest part is the approval process, which really sets the foundation on what we can share and when. Wizards of the Coast is a great partner in that they not only value the consistency and canon of content we provide players, but they're also pretty good about the speed of reviewing and approving assets.
Having said that though, it can still be an inherently lengthy process to approve final assets that will be made available to players. On top of that, if there is anything that needs to be changed or adjusted during the review process, then that adds on additional days or even weeks required to make those changes and get them reviewed again.
Another part to consider is that when there is major/unrevealed content that becomes posted on the forum, we usually like to mirror those reveals on our various social media and communication channels at the same time. Just like the content being shared itself, the social media and communication posts also need to be reviewed to ensure everything is A-OK to share. (For example, revealing a new card set gallery will usually be something we reveal in not only the forum, but also our website and social media channels.)
Now to clarify, I'm not saying all of this to suggest we won't ever provide sneak peeks or teasers in the future. I'm just bringing this up to illustrate how there are a lot of moving parts that need to line up first before we get the opportunity to do so.10 -
Brigby said:Take this with a grain of salt, because I'm only involved in one portion of the entire marketing/communications process, but when it comes to teasing or unveiling content, it's more of an involved process than most people probably think; to no fault of their own.
The biggest part is the approval process, which really sets the foundation on what we can share and when. Wizards of the Coast is a great partner in that they not only value the consistency and canon of content we provide players, but they're also pretty good about the speed of reviewing and approving assets.
Having said that though, it can still be an inherently lengthy process to approve final assets that will be made available to players. On top of that, if there is anything that needs to be changed or adjusted during the review process, then that adds on additional days or even weeks required to make those changes and get them reviewed again.
Another part to consider is that when there is major/unrevealed content that becomes posted on the forum, we usually like to mirror those reveals on our various social media and communication channels at the same time. Just like the content being shared itself, the social media and communication posts also need to be reviewed to ensure everything is A-OK to share. (For example, revealing a new card set gallery will usually be something we reveal in not only the forum, but also our website and social media channels.)
Now to clarify, I'm not saying all of this to suggest we won't ever provide sneak peeks or teasers in the future. I'm just bringing this up to illustrate how there are a lot of moving parts that need to line up first before we get the opportunity to do so.
We understand that there are steps to approve changes from how paper cards function to how they will function in PQ. That these steps take time and can involve some back and forth.
However, we're never asking for a reveal of the entire set, or an entire patch, weeks ahead of its release. What we've asked for is teasers, or spoilers. Paper MTG doesnt just reveal an entire set of cards all at once ahead of release. They put out spoilers of individual cards to build hype around a theme, or a new ability, etc.
Take RNA for example; they didnt reveal Afterlife, Adapt, Riot, Spectacle, or Addendum all at once. They trickled out a card or two with th mechanics. They didnt reveal all 3 Planeswalkers at the same time.
D3's modus operandi has been to wait right until the patch is nearly released and then throw everything at us at once. It's led to long periods of silence and waiting, a rush of excitement for a couple of weeks, and back to lengthy periods of silence.
Take a page from paper and put out a couple of teasers. The alterations been approved for the Riot mechanic? Put up a teaser post with one or two cards that utilize the mechanic and a little blurb about how it functions. Get your playerbase hyped about those Gruul cards. Oh, now you've gotten Spectacle mechanics worked out? Same thing, couple of cards and a blurb. There should just be a pinned post that starts somewhere around a monthish before a set is released that is exclusively for teasing themed cards or mechanics.
We dont expect everything to be shown at once. But start teasing a couple things out here and there and build the excitement.4 -
So if I'm reading what you're saying here correctly, one of the biggest delays is when Wizards of the Coast also edits the content before it's released?Brigby said:Take this with a grain of salt, because I'm only involved in one portion of the entire marketing/communications process, but when it comes to teasing or unveiling content, it's more of an involved process than most people probably think; to no fault of their own.
The biggest part is the approval process, which really sets the foundation on what we can share and when. Wizards of the Coast is a great partner in that they not only value the consistency and canon of content we provide players, but they're also pretty good about the speed of reviewing and approving assets.
Having said that though, it can still be an inherently lengthy process to approve final assets that will be made available to players. On top of that, if there is anything that needs to be changed or adjusted during the review process, then that adds on additional days or even weeks required to make those changes and get them reviewed again.
Another part to consider is that when there is major/unrevealed content that becomes posted on the forum, we usually like to mirror those reveals on our various social media and communication channels at the same time. Just like the content being shared itself, the social media and communication posts also need to be reviewed to ensure everything is A-OK to share. (For example, revealing a new card set gallery will usually be something we reveal in not only the forum, but also our website and social media channels.)
Now to clarify, I'm not saying all of this to suggest we won't ever provide sneak peeks or teasers in the future. I'm just bringing this up to illustrate how there are a lot of moving parts that need to line up first before we get the opportunity to do so.
Considering WotC's punctual nature with all other mtg-related products, and the disaster that was MTGPQ Ixalan (with many cards both defective in card functionality and even basic grammar), this doesn't make a lot of sense.
Additionally, the only social media I'm aware of (since mtgpq doesn't have its own website and nothing gets posted here) is Facebook. When my company unveils our new product line (products and related content being 1/3rd of mtgpq new card images), our social media employee can get all the images up on our facebook, website, and other channels in 2-3 hours leisurely. I would imagine 6 hours would be an abundance of time, not weeks1 -
just more examples of how poorly this application is built,managed and delivered.0
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Wizards of the Coast is the one that reviews the assets Oktagon creates to make sure details are consistent and canon with the Magic: the Gathering universe. For example, if let's say...Chandra's abilities healed creatures, then that would definitely be something where Wizards of the Coast would say "That doesn't quite fit the behavior and abilities Chandra would have. Could you please make a few adjustments to her? Thanks!"FindingHeart8 said:So if I'm reading what you're saying here correctly, one of the biggest delays is when Wizards of the Coast also edits the content before it's released?
Considering WotC's punctual nature with all other mtg-related products, and the disaster that was MTGPQ Ixalan (with many cards both defective in card functionality and even basic grammar), this doesn't make a lot of sense.
Additionally, the only social media I'm aware of (since mtgpq doesn't have its own website and nothing gets posted here) is Facebook. When my company unveils our new product line (products and related content being 1/3rd of mtgpq new card images), our social media employee can get all the images up on our facebook, website, and other channels in 2-3 hours leisurely. I would imagine 6 hours would be an abundance of time, not weeks
As for social media channels, aside from Facebook, we also have Twitter, Instagram, and our email newsletter. All of those posts need to first be approved by 1st party before they are good to go.0 -
If you ever need something to write about for a blog post, the full process you just teased would be really interesting. How is the work on the pre-release notes going?Brigby said:
Wizards of the Coast is the one that reviews the assets Oktagon creates to make sure details are consistent and canon with the Magic: the Gathering universe. For example, if let's say...Chandra's abilities healed creatures, then that would definitely be something where Wizards of the Coast would say "That doesn't quite fit the behavior and abilities Chandra would have. Could you please make a few adjustments to her? Thanks!"FindingHeart8 said:So if I'm reading what you're saying here correctly, one of the biggest delays is when Wizards of the Coast also edits the content before it's released?
Considering WotC's punctual nature with all other mtg-related products, and the disaster that was MTGPQ Ixalan (with many cards both defective in card functionality and even basic grammar), this doesn't make a lot of sense.
Additionally, the only social media I'm aware of (since mtgpq doesn't have its own website and nothing gets posted here) is Facebook. When my company unveils our new product line (products and related content being 1/3rd of mtgpq new card images), our social media employee can get all the images up on our facebook, website, and other channels in 2-3 hours leisurely. I would imagine 6 hours would be an abundance of time, not weeks
As for social media channels, aside from Facebook, we also have Twitter, Instagram, and our email newsletter. All of those posts need to first be approved by 1st party before they are good to go.
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It's done! You can check out the 3.3 Pre-Release Notes HERELaeuftbeidir said:If you ever need something to write about for a blog post, the full process you just teased would be really interesting. How is the work on the pre-release notes going?4 -
What the... "Loop prevention system" ? Based on a 18 seconds counter ? That apply to you as a player as well ? Am I reading this right ? 😭
If that's right that's the worst news ever in this game, totally eclipsing the rest of the announcements.1 -
Can we please NOT release 3.3 at all?
I'd rather not have new cards, than have new cards+loop timer3 -
I want the new cards and willing to see how the timer plays out. I prefer back and forth play, so if this ends up making more of that...
But looking at the card gallery, some of the cost reduction cards probably led to even more brokenness and this is how they decided to deal instead of a case by case basis.0 -
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Thanks for the elaboration @Brigby, however (and I say this respectfully) it feels like a bit of a sidestep from addressing my concerns.Brigby said:
Wizards of the Coast is the one that reviews the assets Oktagon creates to make sure details are consistent and canon with the Magic: the Gathering universe. For example, if let's say...Chandra's abilities healed creatures, then that would definitely be something where Wizards of the Coast would say "That doesn't quite fit the behavior and abilities Chandra would have. Could you please make a few adjustments to her? Thanks!"FindingHeart8 said:So if I'm reading what you're saying here correctly, one of the biggest delays is when Wizards of the Coast also edits the content before it's released?
Considering WotC's punctual nature with all other mtg-related products, and the disaster that was MTGPQ Ixalan (with many cards both defective in card functionality and even basic grammar), this doesn't make a lot of sense.
Additionally, the only social media I'm aware of (since mtgpq doesn't have its own website and nothing gets posted here) is Facebook. When my company unveils our new product line (products and related content being 1/3rd of mtgpq new card images), our social media employee can get all the images up on our facebook, website, and other channels in 2-3 hours leisurely. I would imagine 6 hours would be an abundance of time, not weeks
As for social media channels, aside from Facebook, we also have Twitter, Instagram, and our email newsletter. All of those posts need to first be approved by 1st party before they are good to go.
I am a long-time supporter of Wizards of the Coast (about 20 years now), and they've made their share of mistakes from time to time, but never anything as blatant as the issues from Ixalan. Now you're saying WotC (that's successfully released over 80 sets of MTG cards) allowed MTGPQ to release Ixalan cards with incorrect information, poor grammar, obvious spelling errors? That just doesn't add up, please tell me I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here.
And okay, extra web-content. Well there's 3 total new images on the Twitter account, Instagram wouldn't take long once everything was on facebook. The only arguable addition here is the newsletter.
I guess the reason for delays is the game-altering mechanics like the 18 second Timer, which ironically most of the loyal player base here disapproves of.
Anyways, hopefully that gets resolved at least, and Octagon in the future will actually interact with the player-base before making drastic game-altering changes.
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