How many games do you want to be FORCED to play per day?

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  • Falizar
    Falizar Posts: 70 Match Maker
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    Why does someone feel forced to play any event??!!
  • Outersider
    Outersider Posts: 119 Tile Toppler
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    As a veteran player (started at the beginning) and as a retired person who has some time on his hands, I do find that the game seems to be more of a grind now. The events tend to make you play more games and achieve little (note I am aware that the higher level you get the more it takes... but still... ) the changes in color mastery to me come close to actually a game breaker. I actually think that it's the worse change in the history of the game).  I do all the events, do the training grounds each day and have time to work on color mastery also though with the changes I'm getting frustrated.   When the next set arrives it may be my last depending on how things go. Seriously disappointed with the game during the past year. Little thought seems to have been made to some changes and the  bug issues that keep reoccurring mean little thought is given to quality control (as a retired programmer it was a something that was required for doing my job....  no one seems to do it anymore though, to me thats not an excuse. 
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
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    2 TG is a bit too much and due to timing I can't finish both. My only priorities are RT and totps which are a lot in themselves.

    @Brigby My biggest concern and I hope it applies to many is that  coalitions events finish on weekdays, typically on Mondays. Can you guys make all coalition events finish on weekend?
    Dragon War for instance finishes on Monday. After clearing all the nodes on Sunday, you still have two games per nodes to clear on Monday. The first set of nodes starts when people are about to get ready for school/work or whatever and the last set of nodes happen during school/work times. Don't you think this is an inconvenience?
    If you play for a competitive competitive coalition, you may feel pressured to fulfill you obligations to do all nodes. 
    For next updates please focus on more new coalitions events.
  • Fiddler
    Fiddler Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
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    I am remembering Quick Battle and its leader boards. Now that was a grind! Ten hour sessions on the app to try to get to the top.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Theros said:
    2 TG is a bit too much and due to timing I can't finish both. My only priorities are RT and totps which are a lot in themselves.

    @Brigby My biggest concern and I hope it applies to many is that  coalitions events finish on weekdays, typically on Mondays. Can you guys make all coalition events finish on weekend?
    Dragon War for instance finishes on Monday. After clearing all the nodes on Sunday, you still have two games per nodes to clear on Monday. The first set of nodes starts when people are about to get ready for school/work or whatever and the last set of nodes happen during school/work times. Don't you think this is an inconvenience?
    If you play for a competitive competitive coalition, you may feel pressured to fulfill you obligations to do all nodes. 
    For next updates please focus on more new coalitions events.
    If the issue is about timezones, to add to this, coaltion events could just start (and end) 24 hrs more early, with enough puffer that you won't lose a charge in the first at least 24 hours as well.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Falizar said:
    Why does someone feel forced to play any event??!!

    Completionism is a real thing, but basically people who feel it in games need to know their own minds better and adapt their coping mechanisms to a level where they can actually cope!

    The OP feels driven to play everything, that they can't leave rewards on the table...

    This is really basic "I have to do these things every day." thinking, it's destructive and depressing and actually _can't_ lead to a happy life. Because succeeding doesn't lead to happiness, just very mild middle of the road relief that the tasks are done. So you are automatically set up to only feel "ok or worse" because the possibility of "feeling great!" about these things doesn't exist as long as they are a chore.

    You instead need to analyse what parts of the game you enjoy and work out how to maximise those.

    Resources like runes and gold you will get regardless _over time_. You aren't missing anything by being patient and setting the level of your goals to somewhere where it makes you happy.

    Instead of going "Sigh, I have to do training grounds again, what a drag..." I set your level of "must do" to only include Rising Tensions and progression on any specific days events. By setting "Completion" to that level and placing training grounds and other play into "Bonus or extra play" space in my head, I can get the satisfaction of completeness without too much pain and then if I _do_ play some of the other stuff I can feel BETTER because I managed to do more that day!

    It's a bit like "Is this a 50% discount? Or does it normal just cost twice as much as it should?", the reality isn't what drives your feelings, it's your perception of reality that drives your feelings.

     
    So set your "Completion" bar to something solid that you can do easily every day and enjoy like RT.

    And then when you _finish_ that go,  "Hmmm, I have another hour free, great! I'll play around with this new deck idea in Training Grounds because I _want_ to!"
    Changing it to something you only do when you want, when you _choose_ on purpose totally changes your relationship with it.



    Kinesia
    Gaming Psychologist
    Weaponised Empathy






  • Firinmahlazer
    Firinmahlazer Posts: 417 Mover and Shaker
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    I definitely feel like I'm leaving money on the table not playing dailies. If it were up to me I'd go back to 1 TG but I'm the minority apparently. 
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 971 Critical Contributor
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    Firinmahlazer said:
    I definitely feel like I'm leaving money on the table not playing dailies. If it were up to me I'd go back to 1 TG but I'm the minority apparently. 
    I get that sentiment and I think this sentiment is also where the OP iss coming from but.... 

    Only months ago we had only one event to play, so we haven't lost anything compared to that. Even better, we gained the choice to pick the even we like and not play the others, we can choose to play legacy or standard. 

    Instead of asking to remove event because you can't keep up think of it this way:
    None of us are playi g it all and that is not the point of the choice of events. So just pick what you like..... 
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2019
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        I also feel like i'm missing something if i leave an event behind (Aka loose an oportunity of more currencies) ... But i also keep in mind it is nothing more than addict behaviour ... And everytime i decide to skip something , i realize how cool it is just because i can feel the "pressure" disappear.

        I can't help thinking kinesia makes a very good point here ... The "loss" feeling is just a mental twist.

        When you spend 10 - 20 minutes grinding a TG you are ironically loosing much more than 10 crystals ... you're loosing real lifetime that could have been used for some more urgent, meaningful or vital things.
       After 30 TG ... you've spent about 10 hours ... And in most cases you'll buy a pack of dupe cards that will bring you nothing more than frustration... And 1/10 of a pixelized mythic.

       I'm not trying to say it worthless playing this game ... On the contrary, it has to be played for good reasons to be worth playing.
      Do the daily grind because you like swapping and trying new decks ... Try to get top 5 because you like challenges ... 
       However, do not play the game just because you think you can gather more currencies ... you'll probably never get enough of them to feel free and acomplished anyway.

       As for the 2 training grounds ... You can also consider that you've won an oportunity to play any deck, at any time, without any pressure ... Which is, from a leisure point of view, priceless.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
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    For the last 3 months all I’ve played are coalition events. Not even TG every day. I don’t even have all the GRN exclusives from that daily event. 

    I don’t feel forced to play at all. Right now I’m enjoying being causal. 

    Before i played TG or AX every day TotP once a week. Sometimes the individual PvE events. 

    Ive never felt forced to play a single event or node in this game. That’s why I enjoy it so much. 
  • arNero
    arNero Posts: 358 Mover and Shaker
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    Frankly I don't feel like posting here again after seeing a few of the replies, but looking back on the past few days, in very particular: Last Thursday, Sunday and Monday today, I found that I will need to revise some of my statements.

    I still think the new double-Training Ground is kinda annoying and makes the game more grindy, especially since whereas the old single TG rewards 15 crystals from 4 wins, averaging 3,75 crystals earned per win, the new double TG rewards 20 after 8 wins, averaging 2,5 crystals. Now, I firmly believe this is being excessively melodramatic, but I'm speaking about this because frankly, I'm still feeling a bit sore that Rising Tension offers less jewels than Across Ixalan despite requiring more effort to complete (ok, fine, you can say that you don't have to get 60 points to get 20 jewels, but that still means it less than Across Ixalan's 25 jewels, though fine, you can argue that free 500 orbs per day fro the dupe mythics makes it easier to craft stuffs except Masterpiece).

    However, looking back about when I made this thread (I posted this thread on a Wednesday, the day Emrakul's Corruption ended), and those three days I mentioned, I realized I may have not properly pinned the blame, and now I'd like to say that the real reason why I blew up and made this thread is because of the weekday events, such as last week's Emrakul's Corruption and this week's Trial of Ambition.

    See, those node-based events usually run only for two days, but in total they often require 20-30 games to play in that short time span. They then compound this disaster by adding a SECOND weekday event, some of them being disastrously grindy (like BfZ PvEs, which at least require like 15 games EACH just to get full progression thanks to their HORRIBLY-designed contradictory objectives). And then to worsen the matter, after such double-event day is over, suddenly there is this Thursday lull where there is no event of note.

    So, one angry question: What's with this uneven distribution of daily activities???

    You (or the previous dude, whatever) have done well of listening to the playerbase's request to have coalition events only on weekends, because that's precisely when people have more time to focus and play. Which then due to the lack of Across Ixalan, Rising Tension, Trials of the Planes etc, suddenly weekend seems bare; people have time to play, but there's not enough games to finish. But then you start not one but TWO grindy events on a bloody Monday (or Tuesday, whatever), when in addition to those events there are already daily events that already take up time, during days when people have work to do IRL. And what's worse, some weekdays have grindy events, and some other days are devoid (Eldrazi not included) of meaningful events aside from the dailies.

    Seriously?

    This issue with weekday events needs to be addressed eventually. Like, instead of having to cram 30 games played in just 2 day, why not spread it into the entire week? The Kaladesh PvE events (Revolt Against Consulate and the other one) are actually PERFECT example on how a weekday event should be run: They each require at least 8 games to get all the goodies, so having 4 days to do so makes it really leisurely to finish them. And while Dominaria's Journey Through History does run for 2 days, the fact that it's possible to fully complete it in only 4-6 games make it more rewarding than those other node-based weekday events that require 30.

    Of course, if such node-based weekday events were to be stretched to the entire week, obviously their node recharges need to follow suit; each node recharging still at 8 hours completely defeat the purpose of asking these events to be stretched so that they don't demand too much time. Like, maybe one node recharge per 12 hours? 16 hours? Or 24 hours? Or better yet, taking cues from Trial of the Planes, all node charges available from the start and no further recharge? (as for this last one, I sympathize with a few players who have complained that having the nodes recharged once every eight hours have deprived them from completely enjoying the game due to missing a few matches, which is why I suggest TotP's system). If you prefer to keep weekday events running only two days, then in addition to my suggestions above, CUT DOWN the number of games needed to be played. 20 games in 2 days is NOT fun; between 8-10 is quite grindy enough already especially when some days have double events.

    Phew.

    Back to my statements on TGs: Okay, fine, I may have been overmelodramatic in suggesting the TG gone, but I still think having to play 8 games for full reward is still annoying, especially when they weekday events are such a screw up like this. So, I take back my demand to have double-TG removed, but at the same time, I still would rather we play fewer games for the TGs. I mean, come on; Last time we only need 4 games to complete the daily TG, now we have to do 8? Cut it down a little can ya, like 3 games each?

    As for the issues about weekdays event, I think I should make another thread about it, but frankly, considering the current atmosphere, I'll refrain, if only because what I'd say won't have any positive impact to me anyway.

    So, tl;dr:

    1) I take back my statements that both TGs must go, but at the same time 4 games each is still too much. 3 per TG should be enough; if you're not willing to consolidate the Rune rewards (a.k.a, 1st and 2nd wins to give more Runes than previously), hey, there's still Rising Tension.

    2) Weekday events that require like 20-30 games to play should not run for just 2 days when they require so MANY games being played; instead, run such weekday events through the entire week (5 days), and then either a) Make each node of those events start with fewer charges (not necessarily one) and the recharge rate is reduced (at least once per 12 hours, maybe consider also once per 16 hours or 24 hours), or b) All charges are available from the start a la TotP and NO recharge, or c) If you insist on running those damn events for only two days, reduce the number of charges and recharge; having to play 15 games per DAY is stupid, and this is before factoring in the daily stuffs.

    3) For quick weekday events like Journey Through History, which you can fully complete in just 4-6 games, letting them run for two days is still ok.

    I'm okay you accuse me for being overdemanding, but hey, in this day and age, no game should demand hours of play just to get the base daily needs.
  • Feden
    Feden Posts: 79 Match Maker
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    We get it, you don't care much for playing games and just want quick and easy rewards.  The game still doesn't demand, require, or force you to do anything though.  

    I'll just echo Kinesia's post, as they said it better and kinder than I could.

    You (universal you that is, I and most others fall into it at times as well), need to fix your mindset to go back to enjoying the game.

    Whenever you want to play the game, open it and see what events there are, not the other way around (studying the event schedule and trying to fit your schedule around it, which is unhealthy and can only work for a few long term).  Out of those events, pick one, a couple, that look fun and go match some gems.

  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
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    The game has gotten more grindy.  Some people love to grind, some people people hate it. The developers constantly have to balance the needs of beginners and casual players vs people without lives who would happily play 18 hours a day if the rewards were there. 

    If the game is too grindy the casual player (and their money) are driven out of the game.  If it’s not grindy enough, grinders find other uses for their time (and money).  

    The question is, “is the game too grindy for casual players?” (I suspect it’s impossible to make it grindy enough for some of the players here, given the ongoing clamoring for QB to return.).  Without any data, it’s a difficult question to answer.  But the fact that people are complaining about it indicates that it is for at least some people.
  • Tremayne
    Tremayne Posts: 1,611 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I disagreed with @arNero in his first post, but the criticism about enough on the weekends I can sympathise with.

    the current setup has plenty options on weekdays (you tend to lean towards to much content) but weekends tend to have a lot less content, so I would urge D3 to add some additional events to the schedule during weekends.

    But some events are sufficiently taxing to stand alone while others are to light.
    then there is the issue about coalition stuff which I do not have much info on, but based upon previous debates I assume the additional contents on weekends must be non-coalition based.

    BTW - @arNero just because we disagree does not mean we do not like your perspective and inputs, so I hope you will continue to participate in the discussion.
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2019
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    @arNero

      You don't have to feel like a minority here, i think we all understand you point of view and i don't think anyone would be against more rewards for lesser time investment ...

      Besides, you do not have to feel at a disadvantage when you see the answers to you post ... You're legitimately talking about your gamer experience and noone is judging (or should be judging you) as none is holding any truth here ... 

     However, individual feelings apart, you pointed out a few annoying facts, and players shared their point of view about how to deal with them. There's nothing personal here.

      A first fact is the game being less rewarding and more grindy.
      Another fact is the inequal repartition of events.
       The consequence is the game being kinda capricious to play.
       
        We, players, have 2 options...
    1) feel frustrated as long as We're unsatisfied because the game COULD be diferent.
    2) Find ways to adapt ourselves to the game AS IT IS  (Aka ... capricious, grindy and somehow greedy)

       Of course we can ask for a change ... But we'll never know if there's a chance to see it ... so the B option is probably the most realistic path to a peaceful and enjoyable experience.
  • Gabrosin
    Gabrosin Posts: 259 Mover and Shaker
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    It may require significant work, but this game should take some design cues from Arena.  The daily and weekly rewards accumulate from victories in any mode of play, and instead of events like training grounds where you've got a threshold to reach to achieve maximum rewards, there's just an always-open ladder play option.  Beyond that, there are daily quests, something that could work really well to improve variety in this game.  Could require you to win with a specific PW, or play a certain tribe of creatures, or whatever other secondaries would make sense.

    The most important thing is that the reward scale is flipped.  The biggest rewards happen for the first victories, with diminishing rewards for subsequent ones.  Events still give bigger rewards the better you do cumulatively, but for the daily grind, it doesn't feel like you *have* to go do all fifteen matches.  If you've only got time for 4-5 you still get a big chunk of the reward track.  If you can only manage one, you still did okay for the day!

    With Training Grounds, if I don't feel like I can invest half an hour grinding through four matches just to get 10 crystals, then I don't have a reason to start.

  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,434 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The OP misses the mark about TG, I think.  The rewards are more of a bonus for playing rather than an actual "reward". I don't know if you started playing when TG was already active, but you may not be aware of just how awesome TG really is and have taken it for granted.  I started when Quick battle was around and there literally was absolutely no way to test your decks.  Running them for rest in QB was event suicide. Nor the events on the weekend.  You just didn't do it.  So when TG was created,  it provided players for the first time ever to have a place in which we could test builds without our rankings being affected.  To me it was a godsend. Somewhere along the lines the mind think from a place to test builds to a place to farm crystals daily took over. Take away TG and we won't have an objective free testing area for players... especially important for newer players
  • Tilwin90
    Tilwin90 Posts: 662 Critical Contributor
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    So many comments on such an eye-rolling title I won't even bother to read it all. 

    I am assuming this isn't about content for new players, this isn't about encouraging players to get into the game.  and this isn't about how Oktagon can better improve the tiers.
    This is about being forced to play too much.

    I'll just state one thing: nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. 
    You are free to play the game at your own pace, and consequently settle for certain level, rewards etc.
    But do it to have fun, whatever your playstyle make sure you ENJOY IT! The more you turn it into a chore, the less excitement you will get from it, and the sooner you'll stop playing.
    End of story.
  • Outersider
    Outersider Posts: 119 Tile Toppler
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    Here's the thing do you want to have more players playing the game, or players leaving the game due to the high cost of grinding....  It seems that the latter has been the basis for every decision made recently. They don't care about veteran players....  The new player levels rewards are just downright insulting when it comes to it... Seriously if I've gotten to level 42 then you can bet that 95% of the players who have that level have every Origin card... so we lets insult them by rewarding them an Origin pack.  Seriously...... This isn't a reward it's a punishment for putting time and money into this game.  Rewards need to mean something if you want people to continue to play. Don't reward me with Runes ( I have 2.3 million that have no purpose). There is no reason to continue levelling when there is nothing to gain by it.    I have enjoyed playing the game for the past few years, but this constant disregard for veterans is insulting.   I no longer recommend the game to friends due to the frustration. and every time I see that damn rate this game popup you get a 1. 

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