How many games do you want to be FORCED to play per day?

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arNero
arNero Posts: 358 Mover and Shaker
edited February 2019 in MtGPQ General Discussion
Okay, so someone once said: When the game becomes a job, people look for another game since most already have a job.

There has been several changes in the game the last few months and especially the last few weeks that now makes the game feel EXTREMELY time-demanding to play and enjoy, even if just to get the daily progression rewards, forget other things.

In particular, Rising Tension (which needs more game to get the full progression compared to Across Ixalan, on top of giving less jewels), and the all new double Training Grounds per day (requiring 8 games now to get all the gems). In a somewhat unrelated note (maybe), the new card mastery system makes it really, REALLY slow to master cards, which some players don't quite seem bothered with but still annoying, since what it means now is that mastering cards will take a very, very long time.

Anyway, this means that now we need to play even more games now just to get our usual daily rewards. Back during Ixalan, before counting the weekly events, we need to play probably just 7-10 games per day to get all the daily progression rewards (from a single Training Ground + Across Ixalan), which then considering that weekly events usually require some 20 to 30 games (per event that often lasts only two days), translates to like, 10 additional games to play to get the baseline daily rewards which in particular includes non-renewable resources (gems and jewels). Now, it easily takes 12-20 games per day (again, before factoring in weekly events) just to get the rewards. Now, if the rewards for these events are largely just runes, it's probably not bad, but again, there are non-renewable resources to be chased here.

Okay, now in case you are wondering why I complain about this, I'll give one example: Hearthstone. I can safely say that I'm not the biggest fan of that game, but I'm fine with playing it until this very day. Why? Barring very, very bad quest roll, I usually only need to play like 3 to 5 games per day (or, with luck, per THREE days), which, considering my daily schedule, allows me to quickly finish my quest log (or wait for tomorrow) then forget about the game for a while (here's a hint: I've spent a measly 15 minutes to complete two daily quests in Hearthstone today). And not just Hearthstone; I also have one or two other daily quest game I play which I also LOVE because I only need to play it like just a total of less than half an hour PER DAY and still not miss out much. Even Plants vs Zombies 2, which frankly I don't like very much, is still BETTER than Magic Puzzle Quest. Why? Oh, sure, the PvP mode demands hours of play per game, admittedly, but the rest of the daily rewards are obtainable within half an hour, tops, something that Magic Puzzle Quest just can NOT and will NOT allow these days.



So, tl;dr, I do NOT like being forced to play more games daily just to get my daily fix, and I've found the latest changes is making the game demanding more and more of our time to play without giving proper enough rewards for all those. And in case you're saying "But you can always skip some events", mind you I do not BOTHER with Trials of the Planes and have pretty much sworn it off, i.e., even right now I am already NOT playing fully to get all daily rewards, and the current system still feels way too demanding. Go figure.

But aside from complaining about that, I'd like to hear about your opinion about this: Do you think the game now is making people play more for roughly the same, or god forbid, less reward? And how many games can you tolerate being forced to play to get your daily progression rewards?

For me personally, something like 10 - 15 in total (that includes weekly events) is plenty enough already, which, for me, necessitates the following:

1) Disband BOTH Training Grounds and move its gems rewards to Rising Tension (or any other daily event like it or Across Ixalan). Losing the Rune rewards is not an issue since currently Rising Tension is relatively generous with it as long as you're lucky enough to fulfill as many secondary objectives as possible.
2) Create something similar to the old Free Battle mode (I can't even remember anymore what its name is), and give it a leaderboard with rewards for, say, top 10 or top 20 players per day with something. Like, if you give people 20 extra jewels per day for playing TotP, give the best player (or biggest overachiever if you don't limit the number of games allowed) like 5 - 10 jewels, going down from there. That way, let those players who have all the time in the world to play to their hearts content, while we who only have a few minutes just focus on what matter more without losing too much.

EDIT:

Okay, guys.... thanks for reminding me again that I am but a minority here. If you all only have this single game to play and nothing else, or who knows, this game is the only thing you do in your life, okay, fine, I guess the excessive number of event to play to get the nonrenewable resources feel too few to you, okay, I got your message.

EDIT 2: I've posted something else in this thread, but since it's only my second post and I think I may not want to post here again, here's a quote for your reference so that you don't have to search for my post:

arNero said:
Frankly I don't feel like posting here again after seeing a few of the replies, but looking back on the past few days, in very particular: Last Thursday, Sunday and Monday today, I found that I will need to revise some of my statements.

I still think the new double-Training Ground is kinda annoying and makes the game more grindy, especially since whereas the old single TG rewards 15 crystals from 4 wins, averaging 3,75 crystals earned per win, the new double TG rewards 20 after 8 wins, averaging 2,5 crystals. Now, I firmly believe this is being excessively melodramatic, but I'm speaking about this because frankly, I'm still feeling a bit sore that Rising Tension offers less jewels than Across Ixalan despite requiring more effort to complete (ok, fine, you can say that you don't have to get 60 points to get 20 jewels, but that still means it less than Across Ixalan's 25 jewels, though fine, you can argue that free 500 orbs per day fro the dupe mythics makes it easier to craft stuffs except Masterpiece).

However, looking back about when I made this thread (I posted this thread on a Wednesday, the day Emrakul's Corruption ended), and those three days I mentioned, I realized I may have not properly pinned the blame, and now I'd like to say that the real reason why I blew up and made this thread is because of the weekday events, such as last week's Emrakul's Corruption and this week's Trial of Ambition.

See, those node-based events usually run only for two days, but in total they often require 20-30 games to play in that short time span. They then compound this disaster by adding a SECOND weekday event, some of them being disastrously grindy (like BfZ PvEs, which at least require like 15 games EACH just to get full progression thanks to their HORRIBLY-designed contradictory objectives). And then to worsen the matter, after such double-event day is over, suddenly there is this Thursday lull where there is no event of note.

So, one angry question: What's with this uneven distribution of daily activities???

You (or the previous dude, whatever) have done well of listening to the playerbase's request to have coalition events only on weekends, because that's precisely when people have more time to focus and play. Which then due to the lack of Across Ixalan, Rising Tension, Trials of the Planes etc, suddenly weekend seems bare; people have time to play, but there's not enough games to finish. But then you start not one but TWO grindy events on a bloody Monday (or Tuesday, whatever), when in addition to those events there are already daily events that already take up time, during days when people have work to do IRL. And what's worse, some weekdays have grindy events, and some other days are devoid (Eldrazi not included) of meaningful events aside from the dailies.

Seriously?

This issue with weekday events needs to be addressed eventually. Like, instead of having to cram 30 games played in just 2 day, why not spread it into the entire week? The Kaladesh PvE events (Revolt Against Consulate and the other one) are actually PERFECT example on how a weekday event should be run: They each require at least 8 games to get all the goodies, so having 4 days to do so makes it really leisurely to finish them. And while Dominaria's Journey Through History does run for 2 days, the fact that it's possible to fully complete it in only 4-6 games make it more rewarding than those other node-based weekday events that require 30.

Of course, if such node-based weekday events were to be stretched to the entire week, obviously their node recharges need to follow suit; each node recharging still at 8 hours completely defeat the purpose of asking these events to be stretched so that they don't demand too much time. Like, maybe one node recharge per 12 hours? 16 hours? Or 24 hours? Or better yet, taking cues from Trial of the Planes, all node charges available from the start and no further recharge? (as for this last one, I sympathize with a few players who have complained that having the nodes recharged once every eight hours have deprived them from completely enjoying the game due to missing a few matches, which is why I suggest TotP's system). If you prefer to keep weekday events running only two days, then in addition to my suggestions above, CUT DOWN the number of games needed to be played. 20 games in 2 days is NOT fun; between 8-10 is quite grindy enough already especially when some days have double events.

Phew.

Back to my statements on TGs: Okay, fine, I may have been overmelodramatic in suggesting the TG gone, but I still think having to play 8 games for full reward is still annoying, especially when they weekday events are such a screw up like this. So, I take back my demand to have double-TG removed, but at the same time, I still would rather we play fewer games for the TGs. I mean, come on; Last time we only need 4 games to complete the daily TG, now we have to do 8? Cut it down a little can ya, like 3 games each?

As for the issues about weekdays event, I think I should make another thread about it, but frankly, considering the current atmosphere, I'll refrain, if only because what I'd say won't have any positive impact to me anyway.

So, tl;dr:

1) I take back my statements that both TGs must go, but at the same time 4 games each is still too much. 3 per TG should be enough; if you're not willing to consolidate the Rune rewards (a.k.a, 1st and 2nd wins to give more Runes than previously), hey, there's still Rising Tension.

2) Weekday events that require like 20-30 games to play should not run for just 2 days when they require so MANY games being played; instead, run such weekday events through the entire week (5 days), and then either a) Make each node of those events start with fewer charges (not necessarily one) and the recharge rate is reduced (at least once per 12 hours, maybe consider also once per 16 hours or 24 hours), or b) All charges are available from the start a la TotP and NO recharge, or c) If you insist on running those damn events for only two days, reduce the number of charges and recharge; having to play 15 games per DAY is stupid, and this is before factoring in the daily stuffs.

3) For quick weekday events like Journey Through History, which you can fully complete in just 4-6 games, letting them run for two days is still ok.

I'm okay you accuse me for being overdemanding, but hey, in this day and age, no game should demand hours of play just to get the base daily needs.


Thank you.
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Comments

  • Thuran
    Thuran Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
    edited February 2019
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    Uhm, RT is 4 games a day, the EXACT same as AI....

    In addition, with the removal of visual aid, it can be blazed through at very high speed, and training grounds can be freely ignored, unless you REALLY want 15 crystals....even then, legacy TG takes potentially less than 10-20 mins, and standard TG is similar...

    The point is, you aren't really forced to play any of them, with coalition events being the onlybtrue exception


  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I actually do sympathize with the OP.  When you are playing a game and you feel like you either have to spend an onerous amount of time or fall behind other players, it doesn't feel good.  And frankly it takes a lot of time each day to play the dailies.  Even with my highly optimized decks it often takes at least a couple of hours to play 8 games of TOTP, 8 games of TG, and 4 games of RT.  Then we have stuff like Journey events, AX, RATC, etc.  that have great prizes for the time, but still takes time.  Add in NoP, FIRF, EC, etc... no idea why anyone plays these at this point...
    Oh, and then a weekly coalition event with 40-45+ games. And then Duels...  It genuinely is a lot.

    I was always one to argue for more content... so I should be happy in some ways.  But the fact that so much is wrapped up in time sensitive content does tend to make it feel like a job.   I do think they could step back a little bit and focus on the new leveling system.

    That being said, it is all voluntary.. I made a resolution to not play TG this year... so far so good (unlike my other resolutions  :D )
  • Dropspot
    Dropspot Posts: 200 Tile Toppler
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    I don't feel obligated to play any games at any time. I play what I think has the best rewards for the limited time I can play the game everyday. That said I don't play everything and I like they offer more than what I can play because there are players that can play more than me. Of course they will have more resources and chances of getting better cards than me, but that is a choice I made by only playing what I can.

    I find RT the best event they made in ages, and I really enjoy it, it's basically the only one I play during the week. I can only thank the devs for the amount of events there are nowadays there was a time we had a lot fewer options to play. 
  • ertaii
    ertaii Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
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    I'd be happy to play all the events if only the game let me log in ^^

    The part that is annoying me is the hour schedule for TG. It starts in the middle of the night and stops quite early, in Europe. Not convenient for those of us that have a social life.
  • NinjaE
    NinjaE Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
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    If you aren't playing a game because you enjoy playing the game, then you may be playing the wrong game.

    I like playing matches, and I like deckbuilding. These in and of itself are their own rewards for me, and everything else is bonus. The only "obligation" I feel to play is coalition events, and I would play those anyways.

    The rewards are light years better than they used to be, and I can't really back you on "I'm not able to get enough rewards fast enough."

  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
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    ertaii said:
    I'd be happy to play all the events if only the game let me log in ^^

    The part that is annoying me is the hour schedule for TG. It starts in the middle of the night and stops quite early, in Europe. Not convenient for those of us that have a social life.
    Luckily the Venn Diagram of MTG fans and people with a vibrant social life has a very very tiny intersection  :D  :D:

    I have noticed the TG end much earlier for me as well (used to be 10-11 PM, now its 6-7 PM).  I'm not sure why they would change that, but I can see how it would be annoying if it shifted even earlier.
  • Dkrone
    Dkrone Posts: 34 Just Dropped In
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    I'm happy they have more games than I can play, it drives me nuts when I want to play and there is nothing available. My suggestion would be to put more games on the weekend and less during the week, or relax the time limits some. I come home from work and I have about 2 hours before events expire, so I play what I can. The next round usually doesn't start until later at night, and I can't always stay up to play. The weekend rolls around and I'm thinking "I've got time now, let's rock" only to find that TG is all that is available. I could do the entire week's events if they would have them available through the weekend. I get that some events are tournament style so it makes sense to have a time limit, but something like Rising Tensions or the single player events could run all week. This would alleviate the "feels like a job" aspect in my opinion. If I can't play on Wednesday then at least I can catch up on Saturday. 
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
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    I'm at my personal limit as far as dailies go.  I sometimes end up skipping one or more TGs and even some TotP.

    Ultimately I feel like I'm swimming in resources so it's not a big deal.

    But I can appreciate the perception/feeling like I'm leaving stuff on the table when I skip events.
  • EvilDead
    EvilDead Posts: 167 Tile Toppler
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    Today there is not enough content.........
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
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    To me the issue is that the dailies don't feel like content at all. Training grounds is a thing to be done with asap. Low xp, low reward, no flavor. I think I currently ignore it more often than I play it.
    Totp feels the same on a higher power level - I priorize it over TG since my gold amount looks fine but my pink doesn't.
    Rising tensions is at least mildly interesting. It'd be nice if it was replaced like acrix was with an event of the upcoming set - but unlike that one it should get a ladder and charge cap as well.

    The unregular non coalition events are mostly not worth the time investment at all IMO. Pve is okay, just rush through it and you're fine. The only events I actually care about are coalition events.. And those are the reason I play solo stuff.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
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    Mburn7 said:
    ertaii said:
    I'd be happy to play all the events if only the game let me log in ^^

    The part that is annoying me is the hour schedule for TG. It starts in the middle of the night and stops quite early, in Europe. Not convenient for those of us that have a social life.
    -snip-

    I have noticed the TG end much earlier for me as well (used to be 10-11 PM, now its 6-7 PM).  I'm not sure why they would change that, but I can see how it would be annoying if it shifted even earlier.
    Just wanted to quickly answer this, and then get out, so as not to derail the conversation.

    The Training Ground events have their times staggered, in order to avoid potential server issues from both ending at the same time.
  • IM_CARLOS
    IM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
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    If they would make enough new event they didn't have to split events like boft or tG and cut rewards into pieces. 

    Events like NoP or EC are a slap im the face for veteran player. 20 jewels and some orbs let totp looks very shiny. 

    Anyway I do the job. but it feals very repetitive and boring. I think they have to make some more really new events (and please hire some real gameplay designer before!) or make events more interesting (more and /or special/unique rewards). 

    Make more content out of existing content taste like water in a drink.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Brigby said:
    Mburn7 said:
    ertaii said:
    I'd be happy to play all the events if only the game let me log in ^^

    The part that is annoying me is the hour schedule for TG. It starts in the middle of the night and stops quite early, in Europe. Not convenient for those of us that have a social life.
    -snip-

    I have noticed the TG end much earlier for me as well (used to be 10-11 PM, now its 6-7 PM).  I'm not sure why they would change that, but I can see how it would be annoying if it shifted even earlier.
    Just wanted to quickly answer this, and then get out, so as not to derail the conversation.

    The Training Ground events have their times staggered, in order to avoid potential server issues from both ending at the same time.
    Ok that makes sense (good thinking), but why are the times staggering 3-4 hours earlier than they used to?
  • Imbrium
    Imbrium Posts: 30 Just Dropped In
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    I like people's varied approaches.  No one is obligated to play anything, but at least there are more options for everyone.  

    Everyone needs something to play regardless of ability though.  Rising Tensions or an equivalent doesn't need restrictions or charges caps, or timed charges (because people outside America don't exist apparently) because newer players need an opportunity to get all rewards.  Or, if someone with a bigger collection is having a bad day, they still need the option to be able to finish too.

    Mostly the game has to cater to a variety.  If you can't play it all, that's fine, do as much as you can.  If you don't want to play it all, don't. But, overall, there needs to be enough content for people in general to come back to and feel like they're being challenged.  Or that there's a space to use the Legacy cards they've tirelessly Booster Crafted. Or to use the fantastic new card from the current set that they've got as a random bonus. 

    Right now, I think Oktagon are doing a good job at offering something to everyone.  I don't think everything is perfect, but for daily content I think it's a lot less boring than it used to be.
  • Machine
    Machine Posts: 789 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2019
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    I understand the OP's feeling, because there IS a lot to do on a daily basis. I personally stopped playing TG since they are available in both legacy and standard. Only when I have time left I may play one of them. Also, changing the XP cards get in TG has decreased my motivation for playing these events. I never played TotP because 8 (!) daily extra games just doesn't fit in my schedule. I like RT a lot flavor wise and also the rewards they give. I also like the Journey events. Other than those and the mandatory coalition event, I usually play no other events, unless it's an event I really LIKE to play.

    I had to learn to NOT want to play every event. When I did, the game really felt like a job. Now that I let go of that, I can start enjoying the game again. Who cares if other players are getting ahead? Just enjoy or you won't last.

    Edit: Looking at the coalition event schedule for the past 4 weeks, having 5 node events was quite tough for me personally. I wouldn't mind if they eased a bit on those. Especially the ones that end on late Monday when most of the players also have to work. I still don't understand why this hasn't been taken care of. Race to Orazca also ends a day earlier, so why not the Dragon War also?

  • ManiiNames
    ManiiNames Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
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    I play Rising Tensions every day, and usually the Planar events.  I have also leveled my card mastery from 37.5-38-39-40-41-42 since the change went in.  If you think it's hard to master cards then you're doing it in suboptimal locations (TG / Story) and/or not using enough unmastered cards in your decks.

    - Rising Tensions, play every day:  Runes, some gold, some pinks, good for card mastery.  Play a deck that is almost all unmastered cards and keep changing things up.  It's not that hard.  For some of my PW I can get away with running ten (10) unmastered cards and still win.  Example:  Try using Ajani-3 in the 'play tokens and two expensive creatures' node.  His tokens are built in, and given lifeline can keep you alive through most things as long as the rest of your deck is not complete horsepucky.

    - TG, don't play:  This used to be the only real way for people to get runes, so we all played it for that and a few crystals.  Frankly Rising Tensions is better now for runes, and due to the very high crystal rewards over the holidays I have no need to farm more through TG.

    - Planar, play every day:  negative gold but gain pinks, good for card mastery.  Build a deck with some base cards that are truly grotesque (Blue Sun, Omni, Whir, etc) and then fit in others that need mastering.  

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