Kitty Pryde feeders?

13

Comments

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,644 Chairperson of the Boards
    MushroomGenius808 said:

    ...................... blame Ike Perlmutter.


    Interesting that they also replaced Captain Marvel (the second of that name, I believe she went by Photon after that,) though to be fair she was a character who never really made it out of the 80s, at least in her popularity.

    It's definitely notable that the X-Men (and Johnny Storm, another non-Disney property,) were the other ones replaced

  • MushroomGenius808
    MushroomGenius808 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    GrimSkald said:
    MushroomGenius808 said:

    ...................... blame Ike Perlmutter.


    Interesting that they also replaced Captain Marvel (the second of that name, I believe she went by Photon after that,) though to be fair she was a character who never really made it out of the 80s, at least in her popularity.

    It's definitely notable that the X-Men (and Johnny Storm, another non-Disney property,) were the other ones replaced

    Yeah, there were no plans to bring that iteration of Captain Marvel to the screen so it was replaced along with all X-men and F4 members.

    Removed:
    1. Captain Marvel
    2. Wolverine
    3. Cyclops
    4. Rogue
    5. Nightcrawler
    6. Thing
    7. Human Torch
    8. Storm
    9. Colossus

    and for some odd reason:  10. Wasp
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,605 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    So yeah they are not really promoting xmen movies, but they are still doing comic versions of the characters. When I quoted someone saying "now we can get new xmen characters" I was pointing out we have always had xmen characters. And were continuing to get them even with the movie studio shenanegins.
    There was a long period of time were X-men characters were definitely not being released. They even more or less confirmed it when shortly before the announcement of the Disney buyout of Fox they released several highly requested X-men characters in rapid succession (Rogue, Gambit, Nightcrawler) and had an X-men themed logo/event (initial Apocalypse event). I believe they even said something about the triumphant return of X-men.  

    Its also well documented one of the top Disney executives went out of his way to not do fox movie properties in any form if avoidable. Hence the cancellation of and now re-release of The Fantastic 4. 
    As I said to both Dormammu and Dragon_Nexus, the dates don't add up, and all evidence points to the Fox/Disney X-Men/F4 marketing/merchandising thing having absolutely nothing to do with Marvel Puzzle Quest. Otherwise we would have never gotten the X-Men/F4 characters we had before the long gap without any X-Men. (and again, Spidey characters had a very similar gap, and have made a similar return in regards to characters/events).
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    JHawkInc said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    So yeah they are not really promoting xmen movies, but they are still doing comic versions of the characters. When I quoted someone saying "now we can get new xmen characters" I was pointing out we have always had xmen characters. And were continuing to get them even with the movie studio shenanegins.
    There was a long period of time were X-men characters were definitely not being released. They even more or less confirmed it when shortly before the announcement of the Disney buyout of Fox they released several highly requested X-men characters in rapid succession (Rogue, Gambit, Nightcrawler) and had an X-men themed logo/event (initial Apocalypse event). I believe they even said something about the triumphant return of X-men.  

    Its also well documented one of the top Disney executives went out of his way to not do fox movie properties in any form if avoidable. Hence the cancellation of and now re-release of The Fantastic 4. 
    As I said to both Dormammu and Dragon_Nexus, the dates don't add up, and all evidence points to the Fox/Disney X-Men/F4 marketing/merchandising thing having absolutely nothing to do with Marvel Puzzle Quest. Otherwise we would have never gotten the X-Men/F4 characters we had before the long gap without any X-Men. (and again, Spidey characters had a very similar gap, and have made a similar return in regards to characters/events).
    My suspicion is they didn't decide to stop not promoting yet or that while they were doing it with in-house at Marvel properties they didn't force it onto 3rd party developers until later.  Your argument is flimsy at best.  There were years of clear drought.

    Let's look at the drought period.

    Last Fantastic 4 character before drought - Silver Surfer - 9/4/15
    Last X-Men character before drought - Phoenix - 11/2/15
    Last Spider-Man character before drought - Green Goblin - 2/8/16

    First character to break the drought Rouge - 9/28/17 
    As I noted early it is mentioned in her release post that they returned (which would indicate they were gone for a period): 
    Brigby said:
    Hi Everyone,

    The X-Men are back

    , and who better to lead the charge than the power-draining, southern belle, Rogue!

    Check out 4-Star Rogue here: Rogue (Classic)

    Source: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/67849/mpq-at-marvel-com-rogue-classic-9-27-17 (Bold and large texted added for emphasis) and her release included an X-Men themed screen.  Also immediately after here were Gambit, Nightcrawler, and the first run of the Apocalypse boss event.

    NOTE: Spider-Man Peter Parker came out between this window on 7/6/17, but that was clearly post the Sony deal as he was clearly a promotion for Spider-Man: Homecoming from a joint Marvel Studios & Sony deal/  It's also unclear to me if the ban was only against Fox properties specifically  or all non-Marvel Studios characters.  I'm not aware of Spider-Man getting as much of a snub as X-Men and Fantastic 4 did (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

    Anyway based on that the drought period was either:
    12/2/15 (Phoenix Release) - 9/28/17 (Rouge) a 55 character drought - Just shy of 2 years
    or
    2/18/16 (Green Goblin) - 9/28/17 (Rouge) a 47 character drought - 1.5 years
    (This would only be the accurate one if Sony properties were also part of the ban which as I mentioned i'm not sure of).

    So are you suggesting that it's just a coincidence that:
    • No characters form some of Marvels popular properties (that they didn't happen to have movie rights to at the time)  were released for 1.5 - ~2 years or 47-55 characters releases
    • When they do add one they clearly say "The X-Men are back".
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    For some reason the edit button seems to be missing...
    Correction I wanted to make:
    12/2/15 (Phoenix Release) - 9/28/17 (Rouge) a 55 character drought - Just shy of 2 years
    Should actually say
    11/2/15 (Phoenix Release) - 9/28/17 (Rouge) a 55 character drought - Just shy of 2 years
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,283 Chairperson of the Boards
    It wasn't just a drought of releases - there was also an interesting element to vaulting. At the time that went live there had not been any new releases for either X-Men or Fantastic Four characters for a while, so all of the 4* ones got vaulted immediately. Then at 3* level they also decided to vault but more selectively - I've never really seen a logical response to why they did this without putting on a tinfoil hat to conclude that it was to restrict access to certain characters. 3* Torch and Doom were vaulted, meaning that above the 2* level all of the FF were wiped out. They also wiped out the X-Men including villains at 3* level apart from Cyclops, Wolverine/Patch and Deadpool.

    Maybe they had other reasons but it always looked a bit like it wasn't a co-incidence.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,822 Chairperson of the Boards
    There were plenty of Spider-characters released in the middle of the drought, so I'm not sure they ever tried to hold back on things that Sony had more control over, movie-wise.

    I accept that they could have held back X-men; no one was really looking for them to release FF side characters, exactly.  But:

    The thing no one is bringing up, unless I missed it, is the flip side of "don't promote this" is "Promote THIS".  After 2015 we had a major upswing in tie-ins to MCU movie and TV characters.  The early days of the game seemed like "just release popular characters".  2015 had AoUltron tie ins but for another year or so, it was filling in the 4 tier (mostly) with the best known characters and occasionally a comic tie in.  Then Civil War came along and suddently almost every movie or TV show has 1, 2, or more characters associated with it.  So the release schedule got full of those and then some less popular characters that (maybe) the dev team thought would be fun to add to the game.  So there's a strong argument that the dev team just wanted to do more offbeat characters when they weren't being encouraged to promote the latest MCU thing.

    The other thing is that the timing of the X-Men return went along with Anniversary time.  And while they may not have been in control of it, it could be true that they wanted to drum up excitement for the Anniversary and the game in general (when they know a lot of players who might reduce playtime will return attention to the game and what's going on) by releasing some long-requested popular characters all at one time instead of sprinkling them into the schedule here and there.  It's also worth noting, in that regard, that Gambit was such a meta character that if someone back then had decided to return to the game then and drop some cash, they could jump to the head of the meta along with others vs feeling like they were hopelessly behind and returning to casual or nonexistent play.

    Hey, where the heck is Kitty's feeder already?  Hello?  I got my 3 Professor X covers.....
  • MushroomGenius808
    MushroomGenius808 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    Seems like the ban started around 2014, with the killing of the F4 comic book.  Is there an article stating it started in 2011?

    Here's some articles from 2015; around when the MPQ X/F4 character "bans" were in effect:

    22,751 viewsMay 31, 2015, 07:52pm

    Marvel is Killing X-Men and Fantastic Four Merchandising


    Why Is Marvel Removing The X-Men And Fantastic Four From Their Merchandise?

    Senior Contributor
    06.02.15


    More articles around the same time:


    Highly relevant:

    Did A Mention Of The Fantastic Four Put The Marvel Heroes Game In The Penalty Box?

    Posted by Rich Johnston September 22, 2015





  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Prof X will be feeding Archangel instead. Kitty can wait.   :D
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    JHawkInc said:

    The "X-Men/F4 Ban", the thing with Marvel downplaying them (presumably) because they didn't own the movie rights, started several years before MPQ even came out. As early as 2011.

    IF the ban, which started years before MPQ came out, were affecting MPQ, why did it start doing so 2+ years into the game's life, and some 6 years into the ban's life? We got three Storms, four Wolverines, two Magneto, two Daken, two Cyclops, two Deadpool, two Jean Grey, Juggernaut, Psylocke, Beast, Colossus, Mystique, Professor X, Iceman, and X-23. And Quicksilver/ScarletWitch, but we'll count them as Avengers since they came out near their MCU debut. But, since we're talking about the X-Men/F4 Ban, we'll add two Human Torch, one Doom, one IW, one MrF, one Thing, and the Silver Surfer.

    So the ban exists for years, MPQ comes out, and then MPQ releases 32 characters that should have been banned, three of them as the first 5*s in a whole brand new tier of play. And it makes sense that THEN they would suddenly decide to follow the ban that has existed for six or so years at this point?

    The X-Men drought in MPQ came and then left because of the players. People complained about the amount of X-Men, and X-Men kept coming out, because these things are planned months in advance, and they can't just not release characters that were already in the works. Then we got a drought, it went on for a while, and people started commenting on when they were going to come back. People commented for months. So then let's say they're ready to bring them back, it's time to plan for 2017, a chunk of the year is full of MCU tie-ins. Three Guardians releases, four for the summer of Spidey, and the rest, Daredevil/Fist for Netflix, Yondu/5Panther for DVD releases, Lockjaw for the Inhumans show, Agent Coulson for AoS, that has 7 months accounted for already, with only two other releases (Mockingbird and Cloak & Dagger).

    So you can't bring back X-Men during all of that mess, because those spots are accounted for already. So you do them after. You know what was immediately after all that mess? MPQ's Anniversary. So "wait until Anniversary and make a big to-do about bringing back the X-Men" practically writes itself. Plenty of time to build up hype (like the small forum comments that told us something was in the works) and to plan things to go alongside the characters (like Apocalypse and Shield Training).

    Which makes more sense? That MPQ decided to start following the X-Men/F4 Ban 2 years into the game's lifespan, 6 years after the ban started across other merchandise, and after 32 "banned" characters have already been released, or that the numerous back to back releases (Iceman, Cyclops, X-23, OML, Phoenix) and domination of a new tier of play (2/3rds of the new 5*s were X-Men) for a group of characters that made up over 1/3rd of all released characters (32/86 at the time) lead to over-saturation, and people complained, so the devs listened and they were gone.

    And then, all of the excitement over the return of the X-Men, is that more likely because of the end of a ban that no one anywhere is officially acknowledging, or because 7 months of releases were accounted for due to the MCU and it was perfect marketing to bring back a desired group of characters (starting with multiple highly requested fan favorites) as part of an anniversary celebration?

    The reality is that all of the facts point towards X-Men going away because people complained, coming back because people complained, and coming back when and how they did to drum up excitement, all of which were the devs responding to the players and trying to improve the game.

    When have the devs been that overly responsive to feedback lol.  

    In all seriousness though, why no ban on X-Men and F4 characters at the start of the game?  I have a few thoughts:
    1.  As noted I'm not sure if the ban included 3rd party sources like D3/Demi or not, can you prove they did before the MPQ drought.
    2.  They allowed it in the early game because what's the likelihood the game would have been profitable without any X-Men or F4 characters (especially if Spider-Man was also in the mix).  Marvel might have allowed them to do those character when the first came out to see if the game was profitable and not tie it's hands ensure it wouldn't be.  The probably limited them to only comic book versions and nothing resembling what Fox was doing.  They either gave them a window of time that they could use them, or let them go wild then eventually told them to cease and desist.  (If it was a sudden change it would explain why there were a slew of datamined X-Men characters that were suddenly dropped right around the time the drought started).  
    3.  They allowed it when the MCU wasn't as big, but once the movies started happening more frequently they told them no more X-Men/F4 and instead required them to 1-3 characters related to each MCU movie release.

    bluewolf said:
    There were plenty of Spider-characters released in the middle of the drought, so I'm not sure they ever tried to hold back on things that Sony had more control over, movie-wise.


    I went back and checked.  A slew is a massive overstatement, but yes I did miss  a few Spiderverse character in my original check, Spider-Woman (9/2/16) .  If you include from Phoenix there was also Green Gobiln which I addressed and  Miles Morales (12/16/15), Doc Oc (6/5/17), & Sandman (6/16/17)  [Note both of the last two were immediately before SMPP so all that reallly does is shorten the window by a month.  Venom Eddie Brock (12/17/15), Spider-Man Back in Black (1/13/16), Spider-Gwen (2/1/16) but those were all before Green Goblin (2/18/16) who I had listed as the potential start of the drought if Spider-Man IP was included.  One character over that large period vs this ridiculous amount in the game at large is still a drought, drought a drought is "a prolonged period of abnormally low rainfall, leading to a shortage of water." so I feel confident my statement above would still apply.

    However I was even in the post extremely questioning if Spider-Man was to be included, see below.
    JHawkInc said:

    (and then there's the whole Spidey drought that happened in the middle of all this, with evidence that it started for the same reasons, that went on almost as long, and likely only ended early due to Spider-Man: Homecoming, and he was immune to the X-Men/F4 Ban across other merchandise, so if the Ban is responsible for the X-Men drought, it leaves the Spidey drought completely unexplained; whereas my explanation covers both droughts)
    This makes me even more confident this only applied to X-Men and F4 so if this conversation continues I'll leave that IP out of it.  

    I mentioned I don't disagree that MCU tie ins grew and could be part of the story, but I don't think it's the whole story.  Let's look all all the drought period characters and if they are an MCU tie in or not:
    Name Dustinction MCU Tie in
    Ghost Rider Johnny Blaze Yes
    The Hulk Totally Awesome No
    Miles Morales Spider-Man No
    Venom Eddie Brock No
    Spider-Man Back in Black No
    Nova Sam Alexander No
    Spider-Gwen Gwen Stacy No
    Green Goblin Norman Osborn No
    Quake Daisy Johnson Yes
    The Punisher MAX No
    Howard the Duck Howard A. Duck No
    Drax Destroyer (The) Yes
    Captain America First Avenger Yes
    Iron Man Mark XLVI Yes
    Winter Soldier Bucky Barnes Yes
    War Machine Jame Rhodes Yes
    Kate Bishop Hawkeye No
    Moon Knight Marc Spector No
    Peggy Carter Captain America No
    The Hulk Bruce Banner Yes
    Wasp Janet Van Dyne Yes
    Black Bolt Inhuman King Yes
    Spider-Woman Jessica Drew No
    Black Widow Natasha Romanoff Yes
    Luke Cage Power Man Yes
    Gwenpool Gwen Poole No
    Blade Modern No
    Doctor Strange Sorcerer Supreme No?
    Doctor Strange Stephen Strange Yes
    Venom Agent Venom No
    Medusa Inhuman Queen Yes
    Thanos The Mad Titan Yes
    Thanos Modern Yes
    Captain Marvel Carol Danvers Yes
    Riri Williams Ironheart No
    Black Panther Civil War Yes
    Mordo Master of the Mystic Arts Yes
    Agent Coulson Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D Yes
    Hawkeye Clint Barton Yes
    Hawkeye Hawkguy No
    Iron Fist Danny Rand Yes
    Cloak & Dagger Classic Yes
    Star-Lord Awesome Mix Volume 2 Yes
    Star-Lord Peter Quill Yes
    Rocket & Groot Awesome Mix Volume 2 Yes
    Gamora Awesome Mix Volume 2 Yes
    Doctor Octopus Classic No 
    Sandman Flint Marko No 
    Spider-Man Peter Parker Yes
    Vulture Adrian Toomes Yes
    Mockingbird Bobbie Morse Yes
    Yondu Awesome Mix Volume 2 Yes
    Elektra Assassin Yes
    Daredevil Matt Murdock Yes
    Lockjaw Royal Bulldog Yes

    Only ~62% (34/55) of those characters are tie-ins and they don't start becoming almost all tie ins till like half-way thru.  Why the flood of Spider-Man characters immediately after the drought but before the almost constant tie-ins? 

    I think the truth is somewhere between our two viewpoints. 


  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Looking at the sneak peek thread, there's 4* Cyclops rewards coming out of order in PvP, and right at the start of the season when they seem to prefer to launch a new feeder, so we have a solid candidate there.
    I would expect Cyclops to feed Archangel, Cable (unlikely as long as he is in Latest) or Gambit before Kitty though.
  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    Looking at the list, you could argue that they had plenty of mutants already so wanted to ask a bunch of Spidey verse stuff,  drop in TAHulk and Nova because they are part of the younger versions that Marvel was promoting, was Punisher times with his appearance in Daredevil?,  Howard, limited character linked to mcu Easter egg, fitting in the missing Guardian, a bunch of Civil War tie ins, another youngster in Kate, Peggy was linked to a promotion, and suddenly there are very few gaps they could have put any FF or mutant characters. In sure a couple more were promotional tie ins, and despite not being mcu characters I'd say they were part of the promotional push aims the film. When we got more mutants may have been the only time in the schedule available. 

    Whether this is because of an actual ban, a de facto ban because Marvel was wanting other properties pushed  or just there wasn't the time is a question we may never really know the answer to. 

    Kitty feeder please, though personally I'd prefer Nightcrawler as I'd get more covers that way! 
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster said:
    I would expect Cyclops to feed Archangel, Cable (unlikely as long as he is in Latest) or Gambit before Kitty though.
    Jeeez, I don't know why I hadn't thought of Cyclops feeding Cable. I'd been fixated on Deadpool doing it because of the movie.
    I hope that's the case. I hope whoever they choose is one of my level 300s =S
  • MushroomGenius808
    MushroomGenius808 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    .... still waiting.  Spent some CP in the Favorite Legends store, pulled two Okoye (champ levels), but no yellow Kitty.
  • Warbeast_7
    Warbeast_7 Posts: 28 Just Dropped In
    with our luck....Magik will be the kitty feeder
  • Razamataz
    Razamataz Posts: 59 Match Maker
    broll said:
    JHawkInc said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    So yeah they are not really promoting xmen movies, but they are still doing comic versions of the characters. When I quoted someone saying "now we can get new xmen characters" I was pointing out we have always had xmen characters. And were continuing to get them even with the movie studio shenanegins.
    There was a long period of time were X-men characters were definitely not being released. They even more or less confirmed it when shortly before the announcement of the Disney buyout of Fox they released several highly requested X-men characters in rapid succession (Rogue, Gambit, Nightcrawler) and had an X-men themed logo/event (initial Apocalypse event). I believe they even said something about the triumphant return of X-men.  

    Its also well documented one of the top Disney executives went out of his way to not do fox movie properties in any form if avoidable. Hence the cancellation of and now re-release of The Fantastic 4. 
    As I said to both Dormammu and Dragon_Nexus, the dates don't add up, and all evidence points to the Fox/Disney X-Men/F4 marketing/merchandising thing having absolutely nothing to do with Marvel Puzzle Quest. Otherwise we would have never gotten the X-Men/F4 characters we had before the long gap without any X-Men. (and again, Spidey characters had a very similar gap, and have made a similar return in regards to characters/events).
    My suspicion is they didn't decide to stop not promoting yet or that while they were doing it with in-house at Marvel properties they didn't force it onto 3rd party developers until later.  Your argument is flimsy at best.  There were years of clear drought.

    Let's look at the drought period.

    Last Fantastic 4 character before drought - Silver Surfer - 9/4/15
    Last X-Men character before drought - Phoenix - 11/2/15
    Last Spider-Man character before drought - Green Goblin - 2/8/16

    First character to break the drought Rouge - 9/28/17 
    As I noted early it is mentioned in her release post that they returned (which would indicate they were gone for a period): 
    Brigby said:
    Hi Everyone,

    The X-Men are back

    , and who better to lead the charge than the power-draining, southern belle, Rogue!

    Check out 4-Star Rogue here: Rogue (Classic)

    Source: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/67849/mpq-at-marvel-com-rogue-classic-9-27-17 (Bold and large texted added for emphasis) and her release included an X-Men themed screen.  Also immediately after here were Gambit, Nightcrawler, and the first run of the Apocalypse boss event.

    NOTE: Spider-Man Peter Parker came out between this window on 7/6/17, but that was clearly post the Sony deal as he was clearly a promotion for Spider-Man: Homecoming from a joint Marvel Studios & Sony deal/  It's also unclear to me if the ban was only against Fox properties specifically  or all non-Marvel Studios characters.  I'm not aware of Spider-Man getting as much of a snub as X-Men and Fantastic 4 did (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

    Anyway based on that the drought period was either:
    12/2/15 (Phoenix Release) - 9/28/17 (Rouge) a 55 character drought - Just shy of 2 years
    or
    2/18/16 (Green Goblin) - 9/28/17 (Rouge) a 47 character drought - 1.5 years
    (This would only be the accurate one if Sony properties were also part of the ban which as I mentioned i'm not sure of).

    So are you suggesting that it's just a coincidence that:
    • No characters form some of Marvels popular properties (that they didn't happen to have movie rights to at the time)  were released for 1.5 - ~2 years or 47-55 characters releases
    • When they do add one they clearly say "The X-Men are back".
    Don't forget a lot of characters we get are not because of MCU but due to a new graphic novel mmrvel want to push.for example we got the much begged for gambit and rogue not due everyone begging for them but because they had a new novel series out,during X-Men drought there series was being stopped and Inhumans were being pushed now the xmen are beeing pushed again  ,they have recently bought back the ff4 series that's why they had updates to ff4 characters

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,283 Chairperson of the Boards
    My favourite was when we got Cloak & Dagger just because the TV show had a trailer! The actual show didn't show up for another year or so!
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    The cold war between Marvel/Disney and Fox was simply that: a cold war. In cold wars, there is nothing publicly made policy and everyone involved tends to do things in shifty ways. Marvel decided to minimize promotions for the Fantastic Four and X-Men - that much is clear because the evidence is there. This led to some questionable decisions, like the cancellation of the FF comic, but was not an across-the-board 100% ban of those characters.

    In the case of the X-Men, Marvel had to be very careful. Those are the best selling books on comic shelves. Marvel couldn't afford to devalue the mutants so much that they lost their market share. The FF were not as fortunate, as they are not nearly as popular.

    As for the appearance of X-Men and FF characters in Marvel Puzzle Quest before, after, or during this cold war... who knows? It could be that Marvel decided that their presence in MPQ wouldn't have that much of an impact on whatever they were trying to accomplish against Fox. It could be that Marvel simply wants MPQ to have a diverse roster and allowed it, despite the cold war. There could be factors in the licensing deal we know nothing about. It's pointless to speculate because Marvel can do whatever they want with their characters, cold war or not.

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