3* Max Champ Rewards Rethink

Daredevil217

@AardvarkPepper (yeah, I'm not quoting that), the OP wants to have his 266, keep getting rewards, and use the iso to champ 4s.  Since that's not happening, your position/arguments are:

- Keep the 266

- Champ a duplicate

- Use the rewards to push you into a higher tier

- Forgo 4* champing after getting a indeterminate number of "essential" characters champed

- Any additional 4* really won't "move the needle" in terms of performance.

I disagree.  Since he can't have his cake and eat it too, my suggestion would be:

- Sell the 266 once you have a duplicate to reroster.

- Champ the duplicate with the iso

- Recollect 3* rewards

- All excess iso goes into 4s

- You then get those precious rewards from two levels of play and not just one (3* and 4* rewards)

- The 266 is definitely helpful, but a luxury and only comes around once in a blue moon.

- The more boosted 4* options you have, the better, because you never know who the best option is going to be that week.  I believe one week Cho Hulk/Gwenpool was the best available option among boosted characters.  Neither would probably make my list of top 40 characters unboosted and side by side.

- The Grocket meta unboosted doesn't hold up against even trash tier boosted 4s because they can't chew through the health before the strikes get matched away, Actually, this is true of most all unboosted characters.

ThaRoadWarrior

Daredevil217 said:

- The Grocket meta unboosted doesn't hold up against even trash tier boosted 4s because they can't chew through the health before the strikes get matched away, Actually, this is true of most all unboosted characters.

#VultureFTW

AtlasAxe

I'm already on my 3rd build of several 3*, mostly the ones with 2* feeders. I just keep cycling them. ISO is unlimited. CP/LT/Covers are the scarcest resources, and therefore the most valuable.

jamesh

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Daredevil217 said:

- The Grocket meta unboosted doesn't hold up against even trash tier boosted 4s because they can't chew through the health before the strikes get matched away, Actually, this is true of most all unboosted characters.

#VultureFTW

An unboosted Vulture isn't going to help much on defence though.  My two trash tier boosted 4* characters will make short work of him before he collects enough black to go airborne.  Sure I'll occasionally get unlucky, but even that isn't usually enough to make me lose the match.

AardvarkPepper

What it comes down to is I usually do win-based progression in PvP.  As I see it "moving the needle" means shifting from win-based progression to score-based progression to save real time spent in-game, ideally not needing HP to shield, and regularly acquiring the 4* and possibly the final CP reward.  (Mind, HP expenditure on shields can be offset by placement awards that give HP.  But one needs a pretty decent placement for that.)

So my question to readers is, just exactly when does that happen?  Should it happen when one has championed 4*s?  How many?  Twenty?  Thirty?  Sixty?  Are 5*s needed?  If so, which ones and what levels and how many covers?

Boosted championed 4*s are far better than thirteen-cover 209s.  (Details below).  But as good as they are, do they "move the needle"?

==

Off the current PvP (There are numbers on the wiki but I think they're outdated so I pulled data from in-game).

Mockingbird at 209:  10118 hp; 5 red 11395.  Boosted 297, 15207 hp, 15083 dmg

Mockingbird at 272:  13135 hp; 5 red 13079.  Boosted 368, 26285 hp 26073 dmg

Mockingbird at 319:  18017 hp; 5 red 17871.  Boosted 421, 39545 hp 39226 dmg

When boosted the championed 4* level 272 character versus the level 209 at 13 covers has about a 73% increase in damage and HP.  I'd say that's about three or four times as many runs with a synergistic team without needing to use a health pack, plus an increase in range in terms of what opponents you can attack or defend against.

Disclaimers regarding using such a small data sample aside, boosted championed 4*s have a big difference.  Not so much if not boosted, but that was never the argument.

==

There are seventy-seven 4*s and forty-seven 3*s in the game, maybe a bit more since the last time I checked.

==

Iso costs to raise a 4* from 70 to 209 is 149,944.

Iso costs to raise a 4* from 209 to 270 is 215,592, plus 12,500 to champion, so say 228,092.

Iso cost to raise a 3* from 40 to 166 is 119,919, plus 7,500 to champion, so say 127,419.

==

Of any particular 4*, you only have what is it, five 4*s and the two most recent 4*s boosted?  And let's eliminate the two most recent 4*s for purposes of this discussion, because without major hoarding or expenditure you're not championing those.  So we're looking at a reduced pool of seventy-five 4*s (and counting), but only five chances for a particular 4* to be featured, or a 1/15 chance.

==

In real terms what are we looking at in terms of roster differences?  Even I'd say quite early, a player wants to champion seven to eight 4*s to cover various situations and niche situations.  Then I'd say a player wants to push to twelve to fifteen pretty quickly then twenty, at the expense of championed 3*s (deferring rewards with saved covers and putting iso in when possible)

But then I'd say a player should stop.  Even when they have thirteen covers on a 4*, I don't think a load of assorted 4* champions are needed in PvP (they're nice definitely but "needed"?), and though I don't KNOW, I *THINK* trying to bolster one's roster with assorted championed 4*s doesn't quite "move the needle" enough to change from slow win-based PvP progression to fast score-based PvP progression.  I could be wrong.  But anyways that's my perspective.

==

Depending on a player's play style, they may have acquired a disproportionate number of 3*s compared to 4*s if playing down in SCL or not playing fully and earning only partial rewards, or being inactive and only doing Deadpool Dailies).   But I think generally by the time you're looking at a lot of upcoming max championed 3*s you're looking at something on the order of forty 13-cover 4*s.  You'll get a few max championed 3*s early, but the bulk comes later.

Since there's almost no question that you're going to want to level those 4*s to level 209 at least (even if not immediately, even if you keep an iso reserve on hand and leave most unleveled until you absolutely need them), it's a question of whether you spend the iso to go from 209 to 270.  Let's say you already championed fifteen of those forty 4*s, that leaves twenty-five 4*s.  Leaving them at 209 instead of 270 leaves 25 * 228,092, or 5,702,300 iso.

You could raise more 209s to 270, but my point is - if you need iso, you can't just spend it all over the place.  You have to not-spend SOMEPLACE.  Yes, if you re-farm rather than dupli-farm 3*s that saves iso, but even with that savings you still can't just go spending all over the place.  I haven't even addressed raising 5*s to champion, and if you've been doing things in a disciplined way, by the time you're looking at multiple max champed 3*s that's something you ought to be thinking on.

==

What I'm getting at is no matter what you're doing in terms of 3* championing, if you're running short of iso, you need to really think about iso.  Iso austerity matters are a different matter to the 3* champion discussion; related, but different.  If you end up spending 5.7 million iso on stuff that doesn't really advance your roster's ability to perform (even though it helps SOME, does it REALLY shift the needle to quick score-based PvP without needing to spend HP on shields, at least not more than you earn with high placement awards?)  You end up using that iso someplace, whether as a strategic reserve, whether you're pumping it into Thor and Okoye, or re-farming 3*s, and though you might defer 4* rewards, you're not giving up on them, they're just deferred until you have enough iso.

As to the argument that championed 4*s pay off quicker than 3*s - I think 3*s are faster to accumulate so end up paying off faster.

==

OK anyways to wrap up this post - just when exactly does one switch from slow win-based progression in PvP to fast score-based progression, without spending a load of HP net on shields, yet still earning the 4* reward and possibly even the final CP award?  Feedback appreciated, please mention how many covers used, specific characters if possible, if you're using 5*s or 4*s at least, &c.

==

P.S.  To address dupli-champing 3*s versus re-champing 3*s - I wouldn't recommend dupli-champing every 3*, but some like Iron Man at least I'd say to keep.  A few selected 3*s can make a difference in PvP when someone's deciding who to attack (the one with the maxed 3* or not?), and they save on health packs.  It's not a huge difference in performance especially at upper tiers of PvP I'd say, but if the dupli-champ count is kept small (which I'd say it should be in any event) it's not terribly expensive.  Leaving one of your 4*s at 209 instead of pushing to 270 leaves iso to dupli-champ a 3*, and almost enough for a second dupli-champed 3* as well.  So when it comes down to, would I push 4* Sandman to 270 versus having 3* Iron Man dupli-champed, I'd have to think on it.

If you're comparing say 4* Kraven to 3* Vision I don't think there's much a question, you go with Kraven.  But the question of dupli-champing 3* is, I'd say, normally your worst 4* versus your best 3*s, and then in very limited numbers.  You do want that iso after all.

BigSoftieFF

Daredevil217 said:

- The Grocket meta unboosted doesn't hold up against even trash tier boosted 4s because they can't chew through the health before the strikes get matched away, Actually, this is true of most all unboosted characters.

So much this, I love finding people that climbed high with this team irrespective of who the boosted 4*’s are. 

Im a champ em all guy and tend to agree with the folks that roster dupes for their 266 3* characters while continuing to work on their 4*’s. I get that 3* champ rewards are great but you know what’s better? 4* champ rewards.

Yepyep

BigSoftieFF said:

Daredevil217 said:

- The Grocket meta unboosted doesn't hold up against even trash tier boosted 4s because they can't chew through the health before the strikes get matched away, Actually, this is true of most all unboosted characters.

So much this, I love finding people that climbed high with this team irrespective of who the boosted 4*’s are. 

Im a champ em all guy and tend to agree with the folks that roster dupes for their 266 3* characters while continuing to work on their 4*’s. I get that 3* champ rewards are great but you know what’s better? 4* champ rewards.

I agree with every word you wrote, though I suspect I'm a fair bit behind you in building my roster+farm.

Just want to say, w/r/t the bolded bit above: ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE FEEDERS.

Carry on... 

shartattack

i'm day 885ish.  sell max 3s as soon as you get another cover if you need iso that bad.  With thorkoye, 3s in pvp arent that important.  i stopped doing that, only because i'm swimming in iso and hp.  don't know how anyone that far in could be hurting for iso.  I'm 4 5 lightly covered 5 stars worth of iso from having every character on my roster leveled as far as they can go.  i haven't touched a lightning round since anniversary either.