The Dragon War - Beta Test (11/20/18)

2

Comments

  • Mrninjaxl
    Mrninjaxl Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
    The last time you had a beta test and I signed up for it.. I was locked out of the game for an entire week... I wasn't able to join any events for an entire week... I missed out on so much... I emailed every day to see what was going on... I next to never got any replies from support... and the compensation for missing a whole week was a joke... 100 gold and a pack of cards... I make 5x that much if I'm actually playing.
  • Tilwin90
    Tilwin90 Posts: 662 Critical Contributor
    Let's discuss the current problem. The TDW-bug is not associated with coalition scores directly per se.
    In the past people have been able to get supplementary charges in the event. This is visible and especially affected individual scores - remember people being pushed out of top 5 in spite of having perfect scores? Of course it also affects coalition scores - but you don't need coalitions to detect this problem, do you?

    Besides, there have been reports that this bug reproduced during recent HoD events, suggesting that this is not a specific TDW. It just happened so that during the past TDW it has been that more accentuated. Let's not forget that that particular TDW also featured a different schedule - we all remember the Europe fiasco.

    For this reason I fail to see the point of running this as a coalition event at all. If it's possible via a data push, just make it a non-coalition event - the coalition marker has NOTHING to do with the event being PVP or PVE. We already have all four combinations, namely:
    1) Coalition PVP - RTO, TDW, HoD
    2) Non-Coalition PVP - NOP, EC, Terrors in the Shadows (not sure if the system marks **** with tinykitty, though I presume it does), TOA (the four nodes one that was recently transformed into non-coalition), AI, Guilds of Ravnica event, TOTP
    3) Coalition PVE - AM, B4T, Trials of the Gods (which I haven't seen running in ages!)
    4) Non-Coalition PVE - Kaladesh & BFZ legacy PVE events (without boss health, story-mode like)

    So what I am suggesting here is for the beta test move TDW from the first category to the second. Not sure how difficult this is to implement for this particular beta event, but this is what the community is requesting here.

    In case there is a different problem/bug being tested that I am unaware, I apologize for the confusion.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Just Dropped In
    This one event isnt going to bump coalitions off of the leaderboards or create huge shifts? Maybe its just me, i didnt see a huge problem with it being run as beta with points counting. I mean, I can see everyones perspective about the coalition points and it perhaps could be handled better.

    It is kind of like that time there was a strike for some event.. everyone was played at their own pace and was chill. No? Is it just me? Lol

    I definitely appreciate the effort they are putting in and their request for help.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Just Dropped In
    bken1234 said:
    ...
    ... 

    All of that aside — beta tests should be just that. They should be done in a separate environment and their outcomes shouldn’t affect anything permanent within the game. This isn’t a beta. This is a bugged event that we are basically being forced to play or we can let our coalitions suffer worse placement. 

    But again — beta results should not have permanent effects on the game. This is not how a beta works.  

    At the end of the day — it’s the principle. This is not a beta. 

    I completely agree with this.

    I am not going to answer the questions in your post because I don't think you will necessarily like my answer since my point of view is coming from a completely different place - I just realized this. I honestly shouldn't have posted anything in here about this topic. Lol. But I do want to say I completely understand where you are coming from.

    At this point, especially after the duel "beta" (with fingered air quotes), I think I just lowered my expectations. I might have come to accept that this is the best that they can do and the best that they will ever do for a beta. And it's funny that I've actually become thankful that they are at least doing something to fix a problem. Well hopefully next beta will be better
  • Azerack
    Azerack Posts: 501 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2018
    Brigby said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Brigby said:
    *Update: The team has looked into the coalition points of The Dragon War - Beta Event, and I'm afraid they are unfortunately unable to prevent the points from being applied to existing coalition scores. We apologize for the inconvenience.
    Then why not just make it a regular event? 
    The point of the beta event is to help Oktagon in identifying and resolving the Max Points issue players experienced in the past. Since it's a PvP, Coalition event, the more players that assist with this, the more accurate the results will be.

    The reason why it's not a regular event is because of its beta state. Since this may cause more minor issues to occur than usual, we didn't want the general population to inadvertently experience this environment. We'd rather have players choose to assist us, and subsequently be fully aware of its beta state.
    Unfortunately, that doesn't make a lot of sense. 

    1. If the devs can't turn off the Coalition points, then it might as well be a public event.
    2. If the point is to resolve the Max Points issue with as many people choosing to assist you as possible, doesn't it make MORE sense to make it playable by EVERYONE so you get more data?
    3. If it's a Beta event, it should only apply to the players as a separate entity, not as part of the "Live" game. (Your Dev team seems to not understand what "Beta test" really means in the way of the online game industry, it would seem...)

    Finally,..
    4. If you open it to everyone and tell them it's a "playtest" and subject to bugs, issues, etc, in front of the game (forums, in-game inbox and game instructions) then there should be no reason for players to complain and everyone can help.

    Beta test vs. Play test.... It feels as if the Dev team has been running the latter thinking it's  the former.. 
  • TomB
    TomB Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
    nerdstrap said:
    I’d rather just run the beta as the official event... bugs and all. We are used to it by now. 
    Agreed, but not side-by-side with a RotGP that also counts as a coalition event. We go from content starvation to content gluttony in one easy step with this one... :/
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Everything is a precedent.

    Everything is a learning experience too.

    As with the previous Beta we aren't just testing the game, we are beta testing the beta testing process itself. And we have identified some issues, so cheers!


    This is a Meta Beta Test as well.



    We will get there... These are all steps forward even if we backtrack around a few obstacles.
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  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    And the more I've thought about it the more I believe it is correct... This isn't about the points bug as such, this is explicitly testing the beta system before they need to use it for something bigger and more important.
  • Azerack
    Azerack Posts: 501 Critical Contributor
    This is going to be like the "hoverboard" thing isn't it? People will call this a "beta test" even though it doesn't even follow actual beta structure.. Sorry,  this board still only rolls...  :|
  • GregDreher
    GregDreher Posts: 100 Tile Toppler
    Are signups no longer being taken for the beta?
  • ninjark
    ninjark Posts: 50 Match Maker
    GregDreher said:
    Are signups no longer being taken for the beta?

    Sign up for TDW will be open until Nov, 27th 12:00 PM (UTC).
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kinesia said:
    And the more I've thought about it the more I believe it is correct... This isn't about the points bug as such, this is explicitly testing the beta system before they need to use it for something bigger and more important.
    What Beta system?  They literally just release the game into the app.  They don't change anything between the "beta" and the "full release" or fix any of the issues (if DDZE is any indication).  We keep the rewards.  Everyone who signs up is eligible.

    So what are they testing, besides our tolerance for dealing with their ****?
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Mburn7 said:
    Kinesia said:
    And the more I've thought about it the more I believe it is correct... This isn't about the points bug as such, this is explicitly testing the beta system before they need to use it for something bigger and more important.
    What Beta system?  They literally just release the game into the app.  They don't change anything between the "beta" and the "full release" or fix any of the issues (if DDZE is any indication).  We keep the rewards.  Everyone who signs up is eligible.

    So what are they testing, besides our tolerance for dealing with their tinykitty?
    Some have noted that 'play test' may have been a more apt description of this event, however regardless of its title, the purpose of this event is to enlist the help of as many players as we can to identify and resolve the points issue that had occurred during its previous "live" run.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Kinesia said:
    And the more I've thought about it the more I believe it is correct... This isn't about the points bug as such, this is explicitly testing the beta system before they need to use it for something bigger and more important.
    What Beta system?  They literally just release the game into the app.  They don't change anything between the "beta" and the "full release" or fix any of the issues (if DDZE is any indication).  We keep the rewards.  Everyone who signs up is eligible.

    So what are they testing, besides our tolerance for dealing with their tinykitty?
    Some have noted that 'play test' may have been a more apt description of this event, however regardless of its title, the purpose of this event is to enlist the help of as many players as we can to identify and resolve the points issue that had occurred during its previous "live" run.
    I understand that, but how is this in any way different from the way events are normally run?

    Almost every new event has bugs the first time around which the player base points out so they can be fixed.  That is a vital (and sometimes frustrating) part of playing a game that is constantly updated like this.  

    If you wanted a "real" playtest you would not have any rewards, so that players are not penalized for intentionally trying to trigger bugs (which is the best way to find them).  I won't play with some funky combo deck to see if it works the way it should because I may lose, and that will severely hurt my coalition (and individual) rewards.  That means we won't be finding all of the potential bugs, which again seems to make this no different than any other event that is being run.
  • IM_CARLOS
    IM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
    They test for the 'get more points then possible'-bug. Just play your strongest deck and in the end, after some days ...... , some player will trigger the bug, intentionally or not. 

    It's not about funky decks, or testing for different bugs. These bug can be tested every other day, in every other event, or just in story mode. 
  • Volrak
    Volrak Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2018
    Mburn7 said:
    how is this in any way different from the way events are normally run?

    Almost every new event has bugs the first time around which the player base points out so they can be fixed.
    It's different because this time the known-likely-buggy experience is an opt-in one (the opting in being explicitly linked to the likely buggy nature of the event).  Isn't that a step in the right direction?  Of course there are still issues - it's not perfect - and that should come as no surprise.  But do we actually value the fact that efforts are being made towards community testing, however imperfect?  Right now, if I was Oktagon, I'd be hard-pressed to tell.
  • Azerack
    Azerack Posts: 501 Critical Contributor
    Volrak said:
    Mburn7 said:
    how is this in any way different from the way events are normally run?

    Almost every new event has bugs the first time around which the player base points out so they can be fixed.
    It's different because this time the known-likely-buggy experience is an opt-in one (the opting in being explicitly linked to the likely buggy nature of the event).  Isn't that a step in the right direction?  Of course there are still issues - it's not perfect - and that should come as no surprise.  But do we actually value the fact that efforts are being made towards community testing, however imperfect?  Right now, if I was Oktagon, I'd be hard-pressed to tell.

    Yes, BUT... Telling people that, up front, in the information section of the event, can allow EVERYONE to join in and give them more data as opposed to running it as a "playtest" ( @Brigby - If it's regardless of the title, then please tell them to stop calling it a Beta until they follow that structure. ;)  )  with only people who sign up.

    Granted, anyone on the forums had plenty of time to know, sign up, and let their coalitions know to sign up, but still. Doing it like that instead of just having an announcement that the Dragon war is going to be re-run but as a "play test" and you are welcome to play or not, seems like a lot of extra steps.

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