Strike tile cascading nerf?

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  • The Ladder wrote:
    Humphrey wrote:
    I find it amusing that "wallet warriors" come out in support of nerfs to free characters - of course they are going to support such changes, it only increases their advantage.

    And I find it amusing that F2Ps insult people by calling them "wallet warriors".

    Next tournament should be so called Wallet Warriors vs Keyboard Warriors, something else people can have a moan about!

    So on the side i also play some Marvel Avengers Alliance on FB. That game's pay to win structure is nowhere near as bad as this game's. I don't mind supporting games I enjoy (i have done so on both a little bit), but having a maxed out Ragnarok (and/or Spidey) is basically a win button, and right now there's *almost no chance of getting him for free or even under $20.

    I understand this game wants you to spend money...but the existence of Rag (and a lesser extent, spidey) makes spending money on anything else pointless. It's even more frustrating that if you're missing a cover (i dont have red ragnarok) you cant simply purchase it.
  • As a f2per, I don't mind pay2win that much. However, I do care about game balance. Daken and c.Storm didn't really need nerfs IMO.
  • I didnt intend to get involved in some sort of f2p vs paying customers war. I'm just saying that you still get plenty of benefit from strike tiles. Just beyond the fourth cascade I see big degredation of damage. I'll get some concrete numbers on damage return now vs.before when I get a little extra time so this can be put to bed
  • Unknown
    edited November 2013
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    _fulu_ wrote:
    I didnt intend to get involved in some sort of f2p vs paying customers war. I'm just saying that you still get plenty of benefit from strike tiles. Just beyond the fourth cascade I see big degredation of damage. I'll get some concrete numbers on damage return now vs.before when I get a little extra time so this can be put to bed

    well you were the one that brought ragnarok to the conversation when this was not about him at all, but rather daken/wolv

    it's just funny your mindset, that daken is too powerful because of the ragnarok teamup...without saying that ragnarok is the reason for that teamup being ridiculous and not daken.


    That's like saying, we should nerf scottie pippen because he plays with michael jordan
  • IceIX
    IceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 4,315 Site Admin
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    Please calm down people. I'm perfectly fine with discussion going on. Heated discussion? Fine. Just make sure to keep it on the side of civility. I don't want to start having to hand out warnings. Haven't had to so far for this forum, and I want to keep the streak alive. icon_e_smile.gif
  • IceIX wrote:
    Please calm down people. I'm perfectly fine with discussion going on. Heated discussion? Fine. Just make sure to keep it on the side of civility. I don't want to start having to hand out warnings. Haven't had to so far for this forum, and I want to keep the streak alive. icon_e_smile.gif

    I'm sorry he took offense to "wallet warrior". It's a common term in Marvel Avengers Alliance forums, where everybody throws that word around without any malice. I didn't mean anything behind it other than he probably dropped some stacks getting that max level ragnarok
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    _fulu_ wrote:
    I didnt intend to get involved in some sort of f2p vs paying customers war. I'm just saying that you still get plenty of benefit from strike tiles. Just beyond the fourth cascade I see big degredation of damage. I'll get some concrete numbers on damage return now vs.before when I get a little extra time so this can be put to bed

    well you were the one that brought ragnarok to the conversation when this was not about him at all, but rather daken/wolv

    it's just funny your mindset, that daken is too powerful because of the ragnarok teamup...without saying that ragnarok is the reason for that teamup being ridiculous and not daken.

    I never said he was too powerful. I was using him as an example of how to reliably get long cascades. Dooms technovirus does it also. Storms lightening strike. Juggs random crashing. Thors color generations. All ways to utilize those strike tiles.
    Again, the point I'm trying to make is that you still get plenty of use out of strike tiles.

    And no one has yet given me a single reason why this is so painful.
  • IceIX
    IceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 4,315 Site Admin
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    I'm a regular forum lurker there as well, with a post count of all of about 5. That term rubs me the wrong way personally, but I just shrug it off. People will always come up with some term for differentiating players, no sense in getting riled up about that. Besides, I'd rather be a wallet warrior than a gold warrior in World of Tanks. Gold is heavy, I can't imagine how much it slows those tanks down.
  • IceIX wrote:
    I'm a regular forum lurker there as well, with a post count of all of about 5. That term rubs me the wrong way personally, but I just shrug it off. People will always come up with some term for differentiating players, no sense in getting riled up about that. Besides, I'd rather be a wallet warrior than a gold warrior in World of Tanks. Gold is heavy, I can't imagine how much it slows those tanks down.

    If you lurk there then you must know you're doing a 10X better job moderating this forum than what's going on in that forum.
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    IceIX wrote:
    Please calm down people. I'm perfectly fine with discussion going on. Heated discussion? Fine. Just make sure to keep it on the side of civility. I don't want to start having to hand out warnings. Haven't had to so far for this forum, and I want to keep the streak alive. icon_e_smile.gif

    I'm sorry he took offense to "wallet warrior". It's a common term in Marvel Avengers Alliance forums, where everybody throws that word around without any malice. I didn't mean anything behind it other than he probably dropped some stacks getting that max level ragnarok

    I'm not really offended by the word itself, more the tone that seems implied with it. Without wallet warriors, the game wouldn't realistically exist for f2p people to play. And yet we who choose to support a game that entertains us get ridiculed or disdained. Perhaps you weren't intending it that way, and perhaps I took it wrong. Either way, I truly want to know if you think this change really rendered daken and wolverine worthless. Again, I'm willing to do the math on it. We can figure out just how much the damage returns changed. Then we could have a discussion about the severity of the nerf. Maybe I'm wrong. But jumping to conclusions without all the information hasn't really gotten anywhere for either of us
  • _fulu_ wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    IceIX wrote:
    Please calm down people. I'm perfectly fine with discussion going on. Heated discussion? Fine. Just make sure to keep it on the side of civility. I don't want to start having to hand out warnings. Haven't had to so far for this forum, and I want to keep the streak alive. icon_e_smile.gif

    I'm sorry he took offense to "wallet warrior". It's a common term in Marvel Avengers Alliance forums, where everybody throws that word around without any malice. I didn't mean anything behind it other than he probably dropped some stacks getting that max level ragnarok

    I'm not really offended by the word itself, more the tone that seems implied with it. Without wallet warriors, the game wouldn't realistically exist for f2p people to play. And yet we who choose to support a game that entertains us get ridiculed or disdained. Perhaps you weren't intending it that way, and perhaps I took it wrong. Either way, I truly want to know if you think this change really rendered daken and wolverine worthless. Again, I'm willing to do the math on it. We can figure out just how much the damage returns changed. Then we could have a discussion about the severity of the nerf. Maybe I'm wrong. But jumping to conclusions without all the information hasn't really gotten anywhere for either of us

    Need to do the hard math, but in a day of playing anecdotally, if you have 4 strike tiles out and do a 3-cascade (fairly common occurrence) you're losing about 500 damage. On a 5-cascade you're losing over 1000 damage. Are you saying that is an insignificant amount?

    Of course, you're losing much more damage if you have more strike tiles out. I used 4 as it's probably the most common number.
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    Need to do the hard math, but in a day of playing anecdotally, if you have 4 strike tiles out and do a 3-cascade (fairly common occurrence) you're losing about 500 damage. On a 5-cascade you're losing over 1000 damage. Are you saying that is an insignificant amount?

    Of course, you're losing much more damage if you have more strike tiles out. I used 4 as it's probably the most common number.
    If those numbers hold up, it is somewhat significant. Still, the question is: does that BREAK Daken/Wolvie, or make their strike tiles less overpowered. I fall in the latter camp, so I guess that is our root difference of opinion.
  • _fulu_ wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    Need to do the hard math, but in a day of playing anecdotally, if you have 4 strike tiles out and do a 3-cascade (fairly common occurrence) you're losing about 500 damage. On a 5-cascade you're losing over 1000 damage. Are you saying that is an insignificant amount?

    Of course, you're losing much more damage if you have more strike tiles out. I used 4 as it's probably the most common number.
    If those numbers hold up, it is somewhat significant. Still, the question is: does that BREAK Daken/Wolvie, or make their strike tiles less overpowered. I fall in the latter camp, so I guess that is our root difference of opinion.

    Are you really calling daken and wolverine overpowered, in a vacuum, prior to the hotfix?
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    _fulu_ wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    Need to do the hard math, but in a day of playing anecdotally, if you have 4 strike tiles out and do a 3-cascade (fairly common occurrence) you're losing about 500 damage. On a 5-cascade you're losing over 1000 damage. Are you saying that is an insignificant amount?

    Of course, you're losing much more damage if you have more strike tiles out. I used 4 as it's probably the most common number.
    If those numbers hold up, it is somewhat significant. Still, the question is: does that BREAK Daken/Wolvie, or make their strike tiles less overpowered. I fall in the latter camp, so I guess that is our root difference of opinion.

    Are you really calling daken and wolverine overpowered, in a vacuum, prior to the hotfix?

    The game doesn't exist in a vaccuum. Characters don't go out on their own. Synergistically, yes, the amount of added damage was more than I thought it should be. Not game breaking overpowered, but certainly out of line when I could field a level 40-50 team and quickly take down level 100 characters.
  • _fulu_ wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    _fulu_ wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    Need to do the hard math, but in a day of playing anecdotally, if you have 4 strike tiles out and do a 3-cascade (fairly common occurrence) you're losing about 500 damage. On a 5-cascade you're losing over 1000 damage. Are you saying that is an insignificant amount?

    Of course, you're losing much more damage if you have more strike tiles out. I used 4 as it's probably the most common number.
    If those numbers hold up, it is somewhat significant. Still, the question is: does that BREAK Daken/Wolvie, or make their strike tiles less overpowered. I fall in the latter camp, so I guess that is our root difference of opinion.

    Are you really calling daken and wolverine overpowered, in a vacuum, prior to the hotfix?

    The game doesn't exist in a vaccuum. Characters don't go out on their own. Synergistically, yes, the amount of added damage was more than I thought it should be. Not game breaking overpowered, but certainly out of line when I could field a level 40-50 team and quickly take down level 100 characters.

    So, should venom be nerfed because spider-man is so good at generating webs?
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    So, should venom be nerfed because spider-man is so good at generating webs?

    I can't even express the amount of things wrong with that statement. Go ahead and add up the amount of ap required to pull off ONE full devour. Two green matches will get the four strike tiles you say you average.

    You're still missing my point. Do you truly feel the change made Daken/Wolvie worthless, or is their strategy just moderately less effective, yet still viable and worthwhile?
  • _fulu_ wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    So, should venom be nerfed because spider-man is so good at generating webs?

    I can't even express the amount of things wrong with that statement. Go ahead and add up the amount of ap required to pull off ONE full devour. Two green matches will get the four strike tiles you say you average.

    You're still missing my point. Do you truly feel the change made Daken/Wolvie worthless, or is their strategy just moderately less effective, yet still viable and worthwhile?


    It's actually somewhat difficult to get 8 web tiles to do a full team devour. Venom has a tendency to match his green web tiles
  • Bugpop wrote:
    _fulu_ wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    So, should venom be nerfed because spider-man is so good at generating webs?

    I can't even express the amount of things wrong with that statement. Go ahead and add up the amount of ap required to pull off ONE full devour. Two green matches will get the four strike tiles you say you average.

    You're still missing my point. Do you truly feel the change made Daken/Wolvie worthless, or is their strategy just moderately less effective, yet still viable and worthwhile?


    It's actually somewhat difficult to get 8 web tiles to do a full team devour. Venom has a tendency to match his green web tiles

    Not to mention that the other team can also utilize your web tiles. But I wasn't here to discuss Spider-Man and venom.
  • _fulu_ wrote:
    Bugpop wrote:
    _fulu_ wrote:
    DumDumDugn wrote:
    So, should venom be nerfed because spider-man is so good at generating webs?

    I can't even express the amount of things wrong with that statement. Go ahead and add up the amount of ap required to pull off ONE full devour. Two green matches will get the four strike tiles you say you average.

    You're still missing my point. Do you truly feel the change made Daken/Wolvie worthless, or is their strategy just moderately less effective, yet still viable and worthwhile?


    It's actually somewhat difficult to get 8 web tiles to do a full team devour. Venom has a tendency to match his green web tiles

    Not to mention that the other team can also utilize your web tiles. But I wasn't here to discuss Spider-Man and venom.


    Okay, please explain to me differently, pre update, and post update, how the strike tiles affect damage output.
  • Unknown
    edited November 2013
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    Pre update: two 67 strength strike tiles.

    One match: 100 base damage plus 134 damage for a total of 234.
    1st cascade: 75% of 100 damage = 75 base plus 134 for a total of 209
    2nd cascade 75% of 75 damage = 57 base plus 134 for a total of 191

    Bringing your total to 634



    Post update: same assumed statistics

    One match: no change, 234 damage
    1st cascade: 75% of 234 for 176
    2nd cascade: 75% of 176 for 132

    Total damage of 542.

    3rd cascade differences in total damage is: 867 vs. 643

    Edit: updated with more info