Why have new character discussions dropped off?

broll

bbigler said:

I wish, wish, wish they would stop releasing new characters for a time and devote all resources to developing new events and addressing players complaints about existing events. 

Or keep creating new tiers, maybe even retire one when you make a new one.  Then they could keep releasing characters all the time while not overly diluting.  Also if they retired older tiers they could reuse the same or slightly modified art assets and moves in newer tiers freeing up time that would be spent on new characters for events and features.

bbigler

broll said:

Or keep creating new tiers, maybe even retire one when you make a new one.  Then they could keep releasing characters all the time while not overly diluting.  Also if they retired older tiers they could reuse the same or slightly modified art assets and moves in newer tiers freeing up time that would be spent on new characters for events and features.

Introducing a 6* tier and stopping development on the 4* tier would cause a major problem.  If the release schedule was 5*, 5*, 6*, then you wouldn't have enough time to cover the new 5*s before they leave the pool.  The 6 week rotation of 5*s fits well with LT pull rates of 5* players.  If you shorten it, then it becomes impossible to cover them without hoarding.  The 4*/5* cover acquisition rates fit well with their 4*, 4*, 5* schedule, and whales have been riding the system for a long time.  So, I think they don't want to mess it up and hurt their cash cows.  But.......riding the cash wave for too long has created a problem with 4* dilution and Classic 5* dilution too.

How would I fix this problem?  Since it appears they don't want to stop releasing new characters, I would make many changes at the same time:

1) Introduce a 6* tier and change the release schedule to 5*, 5*, 6*

2) Change the LT odds to be 1:5 for 5*s and 1:10 for 6*s

3) Increase all rewards in SCL 8 and 9, specifically giving out more 4* covers and CP

4) Create more 5* feeders, so that 2 x 4*s feed 1 x 5*

5) Increase the frequency of DDQ Clashes to every 3 days instead of 5

MoonKnight

Long time reader, first post. As a new-ish player (~6 months) I’ll add my two cents.

I play a hybrid of F2P and pay — I buy the H4H bundle packs and VIP, but that’s it. I do not buy HP/ISO bundles or buy out vaults. I have almost all the 3* champed and most of the 4* rostered. As many have mentioned above, dilution has caused most of the 4* I have rostered to be in the < 4 covers range.

I have five 4* characters I use almost exclusively: Ghost, America, Vulture, Carnage, and Medusa, all around level 200. The new characters that come out take me so long to obtain a decent number of covers for, that if I even do luck into enough covers I won’t have the ISO to level them to compete with my “team” of 4* already. Couple that with trying to level up a farm, I can’t maintain ISO positive long enough to get more characters to effectively compete with. If I can’t effectively compete with a new character, I’m not concerned with discussing how they will affect my team in the long run. By the time I become ISO positive, the “new” character will be obsolete. 

broll

bbigler said:

broll said:

Or keep creating new tiers, maybe even retire one when you make a new one.  Then they could keep releasing characters all the time while not overly diluting.  Also if they retired older tiers they could reuse the same or slightly modified art assets and moves in newer tiers freeing up time that would be spent on new characters for events and features.

Introducing a 6* tier and stopping development on the 4* tier would cause a major problem.  If the release schedule was 5*, 5*, 6*, then you wouldn't have enough time to cover the new 5*s before they leave the pool.  The 6 week rotation of 5*s fits well with LT pull rates of 5* players.  If you shorten it, then it becomes impossible to cover them without hoarding.  The 4*/5* cover acquisition rates fit well with their 4*, 4*, 5* schedule, and whales have been riding the system for a long time.  So, I think they don't want to mess it up and hurt their cash cows.  But.......riding the cash wave for too long has created a problem with 4* dilution and Classic 5* dilution too.

How would I fix this problem?  Since it appears they don't want to stop releasing new characters, I would make many changes at the same time:

1) Introduce a 6* tier and change the release schedule to 5*, 5*, 6*

2) Change the LT odds to be 1:5 for 5*s and 1:10 for 6*s

3) Increase all rewards in SCL 8 and 9, specifically giving out more 4* covers and CP

4) Create more 5* feeders, so that 2 x 4*s feed 1 x 5*

5) Increase the frequency of DDQ Clashes to every 3 days instead of 5

You misunderstand my suggestion.

Today rarity is:
1* abundant
2* common
3* normal
4* rare
5* ultra-rare

What's I'm suggesting is when a new tier drops in,everything shifts:
1* dropped some kind of a compensation given based on number of covers and levels/etc.
2* abundant 
3* common
4* normal
5* rare
6* ultra-rare

So after that change STs would have 2*,3*,4*, ETs 3* & 4*, HTs 3*,4*,5*, LTs 5* & 6*
The rarity system they have works, if it's not over diluted.  Rotate them through to keep pools from being over diluted.

EDIT:  With about 17 new 4*s a year doing this would give the game a much cleaner longer life.  With 29 5*s today it would be at least a year or two before the dilution problem reared it's ugly head there.

1*s are only useful for like the first 2 weeks of playing I doubt anyone would miss them, they'd need to revamp the prologue though (which bonus might get the option to replay if they did)

Daredevil217

AardvarkPepper said:

Real talk, there isn't much of a discussion for 4* characters because there's just not much use for most 4*s, and the "select" 4*s are more or less understood.

First, "just not much use" - yes 4*s do 4* tier damage, and have particular powers.  But as another poster wrote, whether PvP or PvE, you're going for speed, though I'd add also that players need to have health pack conservation in mind as well.  So the meta really comes down to 4* Rocket and Groot and probably 4* Medusa for heal, 4* Gamora for stun, then you're looking at Captain Marvel and Coulson, America Chavez, Vulture, some others I won't get into here.

But really, what use are most of them?  You won't use them in PvP or PvE either if you have something better.  Even if another 4* is boosted, often it's better just to go with your usual setup rather than figure something new out.  That's just the game mechanics.

Second, "more or less understood" - I don't mean all the finer points of all the characters are understood, nor the combinations.  But really, what does it matter if you can go infinite with 4* Nightcrawler given the right conditions or given the right setup, when it takes a long time to get going, and you can just punch things in the face with 4* Rocket and Groot / Gamora?  Or you can exploit AI weaknesses with 4* Captain Marvel or Rogue, or set up stuns and team damage, or whatever, depending on the situation.  Why talk about weaker combos, or combos that take more setup, or combos that require more thought on the part of the player, when you have a few tried and tested solutions that work in multiple situations?  That's not a rhetorical question.

In sum, I think there's not much discussion because there's just not much need for discussion, given the current structure of the game.

I just want to point out that there are SOME people who do like the game for the game. Trying to make less desireable characters work and building unique teams is actually fun for some. 

Others like to play just for rewards and not for the game itself and that’s fine too. 

I will say that the more 4* you get, the more you will have boosted. Once you have 3-4 boosted options each week, you will use Grocket less because they simply aren’t as fast as boosted characters. Sure I use them for the trivial nodes. But Riri/Sandman plus battery is wiping out all other nodes way faster that Grocket. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Dormammu said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Even as  solid 4* player, I've stopped dropping down to 7 to try for t100 and stayed in SCL8 to get the same reward for t200 placement on releases.

SCL 7 & 8 are the same - T100 gets new release covers. You have to be in SCL 9 before it changes to T200.

Huh, just checked, and I guess that is in fact the case. At any rate, I've been staying in 8 because I feel like I can play the way I typically would and still land in t100 whereas dropping down seems like i have to try extra hard to stay t100 anymore, even though the clears take me way less time.

bbigler

broll said:

You misunderstand my suggestion.

Today rarity is:
1* abundant
2* common
3* normal
4* rare
5* ultra-rare

What's I'm suggesting is when a new tier drops in,everything shifts:
1* dropped some kind of a compensation given based on number of covers and levels/etc.
2* abundant 
3* common
4* normal
5* rare
6* ultra-rare

So after that change STs would have 2*,3*,4*, ETs 3* & 4*, HTs 3*,4*,5*, LTs 5* & 6*
The rarity system they have works, if it's not over diluted.  Rotate them through to keep pools from being over diluted.

EDIT:  With about 17 new 4*s a year doing this would give the game a much cleaner longer life.  With 29 5*s today it would be at least a year or two before the dilution problem reared it's ugly head there.

1*s are only useful for like the first 2 weeks of playing I doubt anyone would miss them, they'd need to revamp the prologue though (which bonus might get the option to replay if they did)

That idea is certainly more radical than mine.  So, new players would start the game with 2*s instead of 1*s then? If distribution of these covers is simply shifted, then it undermines the hard work everyone spent to get the upper tiers. It wouldn't feel good. Everyone would have to start over collecting the new "5*" tier.  Because the tiers have a different number of characters, shifting distribution would cause major resource problems for new players. They wouldn't have enough iso and hp to handle the larger tier at an earlier stage in the game.

rixmith

bbigler said:

broll said:

You misunderstand my suggestion.

Today rarity is:
1* abundant
2* common
3* normal
4* rare
5* ultra-rare

What's I'm suggesting is when a new tier drops in,everything shifts:
1* dropped some kind of a compensation given based on number of covers and levels/etc.
2* abundant 
3* common
4* normal
5* rare
6* ultra-rare

So after that change STs would have 2*,3*,4*, ETs 3* & 4*, HTs 3*,4*,5*, LTs 5* & 6*
The rarity system they have works, if it's not over diluted.  Rotate them through to keep pools from being over diluted.

EDIT:  With about 17 new 4*s a year doing this would give the game a much cleaner longer life.  With 29 5*s today it would be at least a year or two before the dilution problem reared it's ugly head there.

1*s are only useful for like the first 2 weeks of playing I doubt anyone would miss them, they'd need to revamp the prologue though (which bonus might get the option to replay if they did)

That idea is certainly more radical than mine.  So, new players would start the game with 2*s instead of 1*s then? If distribution of these covers is simply shifted, then it undermines the hard work everyone spent to get the upper tiers. It wouldn't feel good. Everyone would have to start over collecting the new "5*" tier.  Because the tiers have a different number of characters, shifting distribution would cause major resource problems for new players. They wouldn't have enough iso and hp to handle the larger tier at an earlier stage in the game.

What if you just have the token drops shift at certain Shield Ranks? Then everything can stay the same for new players (which I'm sure no one wants to spend effort reworking), but be more appropriate for more advanced players.

HoundofShadow

There are 5* players (at least 5 champed 5*) jumping down to SCL 6. It happens every time for new 4* release. It's not a feeling but if you have team members playing in SCL 6, you can get them to check the leaderboard.

As for introducing 6*, isn't this a short term solution because it's moving the dilution problem to 5* instead?  We have 29 5* now. A year or two from now, dilution is going to be a topic again. New players will focus on jumping to 5* land and put 5* as a priority since their match damage is so many times higher than 3* or 4* characters.

broll

bbigler said:

broll said:

You misunderstand my suggestion.

Today rarity is:
1* abundant
2* common
3* normal
4* rare
5* ultra-rare

What's I'm suggesting is when a new tier drops in,everything shifts:
1* dropped some kind of a compensation given based on number of covers and levels/etc.
2* abundant 
3* common
4* normal
5* rare
6* ultra-rare

So after that change STs would have 2*,3*,4*, ETs 3* & 4*, HTs 3*,4*,5*, LTs 5* & 6*
The rarity system they have works, if it's not over diluted.  Rotate them through to keep pools from being over diluted.

EDIT:  With about 17 new 4*s a year doing this would give the game a much cleaner longer life.  With 29 5*s today it would be at least a year or two before the dilution problem reared it's ugly head there.

1*s are only useful for like the first 2 weeks of playing I doubt anyone would miss them, they'd need to revamp the prologue though (which bonus might get the option to replay if they did)

That idea is certainly more radical than mine.  So, new players would start the game with 2*s instead of 1*s then? If distribution of these covers is simply shifted, then it undermines the hard work everyone spent to get the upper tiers. It wouldn't feel good. Everyone would have to start over collecting the new "5*" tier.  Because the tiers have a different number of characters, shifting distribution would cause major resource problems for new players. They wouldn't have enough iso and hp to handle the larger tier at an earlier stage in the game.

I don’t think it all that radical. I also don’t think it undermines any hard work. Is it any different than a many year old mmo that doesn’t require new players to trudge through 50-100 levels to get to the latest content. It would help close in the gaint and growing gulf between new players and old which is as bad for the game as dilution is. 

broll

HoundofShadow said:

There are 5* players (at least 5 champed 5*) jumping down to SCL 6. It happens every time for new 4* release. It's not a feeling but if you have team members playing in SCL 6, you can get them to check the leaderboard.

As for introducing 6*, isn't this a short term solution because it's moving the dilution problem to 5* instead?  We have 29 5* now. A year or two from now, dilution is going to be a topic again. New players will focus on jumping to 5* land and put 5* as a priority since their match damage is so many times higher than 3* or 4* characters.

I wasn’t arguing that players don’t drop. I was saying I can’t speak to why they do because I don’t see the point myself. 

As as far as 6*s kicking the can down the road. Yes it would be. But any solution to vaulting that doesn’t involve removing characters from bloated tiers or time machines is going to be kicking the can down the road. If you have a solution that isn’t kicking the can down the road I’m all ears. 

I think it it would kick the can down the road longer than a year. After a year there would be 46 5*s and like 8-10 6*s. That’s a little bloated but way better than where we are today with 70+ and almost 30. I think we’d get 2 years out of this idea. My though for a long time is they should have followed what they did with 5*s and do a new tier every 2 years (5*s came into existence 2 years into the game) but that boat has sailed.  After 2 years the game would be 7 years old which is a great run for a mobile game. Then they start thinking MPQ 2. 

HoundofShadow

My bad, I should use the @ more frequently. For the 5* jumping to scl 6, I'm directing it to DAZ0273.

The solutions to 4* can be classified as:

A) Increase availability of 4* covers
Decrease the creation of new 4*
C) Amending resources related to 4* 
D) Others

A. Increase Availability of 4* Covers

1) double the number of 4* covers in 3* champed rewards. But I think giving 3 covers as champed rewards in 3* was meant to separate 4* champed rewards by giving 6 5* covers.

2) double the number of 4* covers in pvp, shield simulator and pve progression, but it would likely require more grinding.

3) increase the number of 4* covers in shield resupply with certain requirements

4) Allow single 4* covers to be purchased in the store with real cash. It could be expensive.

B. Slowing Down Creation of New 4*

1) Switch the rate from 4/4/5 to 3/4/5 . Instead of 35 new 4* in 52 weeks, it will be reduced to 17 4* a year. Vets can take some pressure off from covering new 4* quickly. 3* can be easily covered for vets. 

C. Amending resources and its availability related to 4*  

1) Convert Iso-8 to HP or CP. (Could be expensive)

2) increase the amount of CP rewards (more grinding)

3) decrease the cost of cp to purchase 4* unlocked ability from 120cp to 60cp.

4) increase pack odds, which they have done this year

D. Others

1) Implement trading system/market: players can trade x number of covers of the same tier capped at y number per month at a cost. 

jredd

i think the plan for dilution is to steadily build to the point where they only feature emma frost. boom! 1 character needed. 

broll

HoundofShadow said:

1) Switch the rate from 4/4/5 to 3/4/5 . Instead of 35 new 4* in 52 weeks, it will be reduced to 17 4* a year. Vets can take some pressure off from covering new 4* quickly. 3* can be easily covered for vets. 

Sure, let's have two over diluted pools vs 1. Sounds fun.

Not sure where you are getting 35 4*s in 52 weeks.  The actual number is already between 17 and 18.  Two ways to know this, one with a release every 2 weeks with a 4/4/5 rotation there is a new 4* on average every 3 weeks.  52/3 = 17.333.  Or you could look at the below list of every new 4* since 11/1717 and their release dates, there are 18 of them.  If it were 35 4*s a year the game would have already imploded, or at least I wouldn't be here anymore.

The Hulk	The Main Event	11/17/2017
Nico Minoru	Runaways	11/30/2017
America Chavez	Young Avengers	12/24/2017
Kraven The Hunter	Sergei Kravinoff	1/11/2018
Black Panther	King of Wakanda	2/8/2018
Shuri	Master Engineer	2/22/2018
Valkyrie	Asgardian Warrior	3/22/2018
Jubilee	Uncanny X-Men	4/5/2018
Black Widow	Infinity War	5/3/2018
Spider-Man	Infinity War	5/31/2018
Wiccan	Billy Kaplan	6/14/2018
Ghost	Quantum Thief	7/12/2018
Emma Frost	Astonishing X-Men	7/26/2018
Nebula	Infinity War	8/23/2018
Dazzler	Classic	9/6/2018
Taskmaster	Tony Masters	10/7/2018
Domino	X-Force	11/1/2018
Bishop	Classic	11/15/2018

HoundofShadow

I miscalculated the number of new 4*. I was thinking of week 1 to week 4. 

A 4/4/5 rotation in a year has 18 4*.

A 3/4/5 rotation in a year has 9 4* and 9 3*. 

A 3/4/5/4/4/5 has 13 4* and 5 3* in a year. 

Putting 5* in Heroic and guaranteed 5 stars in legendary tokens will destroy the game ecosystem for new players to 3* players, or even 4* players. 

Players start getting CP as progression reward as early as in SCL 4 (15 CP).

The only way it can work is all 5* receive a nerf to their match damage and power. 

All the progression rewards, shield resupply and placement rewards have to be amended. I think it's much easier to start MPQ 2, rather than to do this.

DAZ0273

What sort of characters would you be releasing as 3*? The only new 3* characters were done through 5/3 releases and everyone was a duplicate of a higher level release (in Elektra's case modelling off her 4* version). I really don't see them putting any resources into releasing 3* characters that are unique or how they would make any money out of doing so.

Not that I'm against more 3*.

Tony_Foot

mega ghost said:

They used to post teasers of the abilities a week or two in advance of the character release as well. Now we either just get a clue to think on for a few days, or there is no clue and it's MCU tie-in content.

I can see why they don't bother anymore, the spoiler rooms. They can post any old obscure clue and a person I know from that room/s has, as if by magic reverse engineered the answer as though they have plucked it from thin air. A waste of time trying to come up with anything.

I'd hazard a guess half the people here that bother to find a forum for a match 3 game or one of the facebook groups already know the next three characters coming out. I used to fight knowing who was coming myself but 5* RNG and planning a hoard is such a knife edge I gave up and embraced knowing.

Quebbster

Tony_Foot said:

mega ghost said:

They used to post teasers of the abilities a week or two in advance of the character release as well. Now we either just get a clue to think on for a few days, or there is no clue and it's MCU tie-in content.

I can see why they don't bother anymore, the spoiler rooms. They can post any old obscure clue and a person I know from that room/s has, as if by magic reverse engineered the answer as though they have plucked it from thin air. A waste of time trying to come up with anything.

I'd hazard a guess half the people here that bother to find a forum for a match 3 game or one of the facebook groups already know the next three characters coming out. I used to fight knowing who was coming myself but 5* RNG and planning a hoard is such a knife edge I gave up and embraced knowing.

Heck, I don't really want to know who the next releases are going to be but sometimes it's hard to avoid the spoilers... in certain places.

Ed_Dragonrider

Wow, i did not know some people have such intel in advance... I kinda really want to know now too. Not for any game strategy or hoarding plans, but just general curiosty. Like is Melinda May finally coming our way or not? Or are we just keeping with the xmen.... Oh well, i guess i'll see when they get here.

DAZ0273

I had heard that there were spoilers out there but I haven't come across any myself apart from an old Alliance member once giving some advance details on a character before release. No idea where he got his info from and he quit so can't ask him. I definitely didn't get the Bishop clue!