*** Doctor Doom (Classic) ***

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  • Isay_Isay
    Isay_Isay Posts: 133 Tile Toppler
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    vudu3 wrote:
    Did they nerf his health? The first post says Doom has 8500 health at max level (used to be 140) but Colognoisseur's level 140 Doom only has 7176 health.

    I imagine that was originally extrapolation. At level 140, lcap, BP, etc. have 7176 health.
  • PuceMoose
    PuceMoose Posts: 1,445 Chairperson of the Boards
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    vudu3 wrote:
    Did they nerf his health? The first post says Doom has 8500 health at max level (used to be 140) but Colognoisseur's level 140 Doom only has 7176 health.

    I'm pretty sure it's 8500 - my node has a level 158 Doctor Doom and he has 8081 HP.
    That diabolical plot can be pretty vicious - he just dropped my maxed (buffed!) Patch with it. I had him down to 164 HP but he hid behind Colossus. Bye bye Patch!
    Do the traps do nothing if they aren't consumed by Diabolical Plot? I tried to check but I didn't seem to take any extra damage, even though Diabolical Plot flashed up on the screen after I matched purple.
  • Diabolical Plan is pretty much always going to do (number of purple-2) * trap damage since whatever match that gets you the 10 purple should take away 3 of your traps by the time you actually get there, because all the purple should be traps at that point.
  • eidehua
    eidehua Posts: 521 Critical Contributor
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    vudu3 wrote:
    Did they nerf his health? The first post says Doom has 8500 health at max level (used to be 140) but Colognoisseur's level 140 Doom only has 7176 health.
    I think that 8500 is the new max health (166).

    The wiki still has the old stats,
    http://marvelpuzzlequest.wikia.com/wiki ... Classic%29
    before at 140 his max health was 7176
  • Dayum. 3/5/5.
    That was my first instinct as well but now I'm wondering, after matching nine blue how often are there going to be more than 8 blue tiles left? And how often will leaving 1 or 2 blue unchanged matter? 3 covers in blue might be sufficient...
  • gamar wrote:
    Dayum. 3/5/5.
    That was my first instinct as well but now I'm wondering, after matching nine blue how often are there going to be more than 8 blue tiles left? And how often will leaving 1 or 2 blue unchanged matter? 3 covers in blue might be sufficient...

    Leaving one or two unchanged usually removes the certainty of getting the kind of results you want. Of course if you're not figuring this stuff out in the first place then there's no noticeable difference.
  • Phantron wrote:
    gamar wrote:
    Dayum. 3/5/5.
    That was my first instinct as well but now I'm wondering, after matching nine blue how often are there going to be more than 8 blue tiles left? And how often will leaving 1 or 2 blue unchanged matter? 3 covers in blue might be sufficient...

    Leaving one or two unchanged usually removes the certainty of getting the kind of results you want. Of course if you're not figuring this stuff out in the first place then there's no noticeable difference.

    Wouldn't it be worth going 4/4/5? You still get the 9 tiles and you lose out on 1 demon.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    gamar wrote:
    That was my first instinct as well but now I'm wondering, after matching nine blue how often are there going to be more than 8 blue tiles left?
    You don't necessarily want to cast it as soon as you can.
  • We can't say for certain until we see the breakdown on the purple power - it's possible you're not giving much up between 4 and 5 or, even less likely, 3 and 5. Lately, either scenario has been fairly rare, though.
  • ecir2002 wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    gamar wrote:
    Dayum. 3/5/5.
    That was my first instinct as well but now I'm wondering, after matching nine blue how often are there going to be more than 8 blue tiles left? And how often will leaving 1 or 2 blue unchanged matter? 3 covers in blue might be sufficient...

    Leaving one or two unchanged usually removes the certainty of getting the kind of results you want. Of course if you're not figuring this stuff out in the first place then there's no noticeable difference.

    Wouldn't it be worth going 4/4/5? You still get the 9 tiles and you lose out on 1 demon.

    It's not really a tradeoff in the usual sense. This really depends on how you use Technopathic Strike. If you're looking at the board and mentally converting all the blue tiles to black before using you need to be able to convert them all because otherwise there's still a decent chance the tile you need converted doesn't get converted. On the other hand if you're just using it when you see a lot of blue on the board without thinking whether it will actually lead to a strong cascade then converting 8/9/all/whatever doesn't matter to you as much. While in theory you should mentally work it out, speed matters in this game too and if you're playing for speed you usually won't have time to figure out how Technopathic Strike is going to change the board exactly. This is similar to how there are boards that lead to better results with Illusions than others, but if you're in a hurry you just use Illusions whenever it's available because it's actually quite hard to figure out if a board is bad for illusions (usually because the TUs are in the wrong locations but it takes a while to figure this out).
  • simonsez wrote:
    gamar wrote:
    That was my first instinct as well but now I'm wondering, after matching nine blue how often are there going to be more than 8 blue tiles left?
    You don't necessarily want to cast it as soon as you can.
    If there's only like 2 blues I'm not going to cast it, but it would be unusual for there to be at least 8 and not cast it, which is where the difference in covers would come in
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2015
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    What I want to know is what happens if the enemy matches a Doom trap tile, or I do? It doesnt' say in the skill.

    As for builds, Purple appears to be a no brainer 5 max, so the question is on black vs. blue and the 3/5/5, 5/3/5 or 4/4/5 options.

    Since Doom lines up very nicely with X-Force I mich actually use him but in terms of builds not sure for build help here's a % I posted in Blade regarding when Thirst would trigger

    1 of a given color 99.99%
    2 of a given color 99.93%
    3 of a given color 99.64%
    4 of a given color 98.64%
    5 of a given color 96.10%
    6 of a given color 91.00%
    7 of a given color 82.66%
    8 of a given color 71.14%
    9 of a given color 57.45%
    10 of a given color 43.26%
    11 of a given color 30.25%
    12 of a given color 19.61%
    13 of a given color 11.78%
    14 of a given color 6.55%
    15 of a given color 3.38%

    The times Doom's Blue will change more than 9 tiles is only 43% of the time but the times I cast Summon Demons over many other black's is also very, very small. A 3/5/5 Doom lets you do some fun things with MN Magneto, but that's not what Doom is. This is the kind of character that sits back and takes your best shots while doing his own thing, and if left to his own long enough he will destroy you as many of us know from Doom PvP's. 4/4/5 hedg'es your bet as it will be useful in most situations most of the time, 5/3/5 is focused on maxing damage and 3/5/5 is focused on utility and speed. To me Doom as is, is a great 4hor and Daken counter while also being a X-Force or Black Panther accelerator. Probabilites say you will be more than okay with Technopathic Strike at lvl 3, but how often are you going to use Summon Demons? Running him with X-Force I would opt 3/5/5 however running him with 4hor I would want him 5/3/5 so I'll probably aim for at least a 4/4/5 but if I had to pick 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 I would go 5/3/5. You don't lose a whole lot with Technopathic Strike at 3 vs 5 and more damage is always nice even if you never really use it. I think that as long as you max purple the rest don't matter.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    What I want to know is what happens if the enemy matches a Doom trap tile, or I do? It doesnt' say in the skill.

    As for builds, Purple appears to be a no brainer 5 max, so the question is on black vs. blue and the 3/5/5, 5/3/5 or 4/4/5 options.

    Since Doom lines up very nicely with X-Force I'm leaning towards 3/5/5

    From the description it sounds like nothing happens if they're matched by either side.

    Looking at the level 204 stats I'm guessing it'd be around 1000 damage per trap for a player at 166. At this range it's not in danger of overkill even in PvP (quite a few strong characters have 10K+ HP) and while we don't know the exact breakdown due to covers, there tends to be at least a linear relationship between damage and number of covers and you do want as much damage as possible.
  • Unknown
    edited January 2015
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    Phantron wrote:
    It's not really a tradeoff in the usual sense. This really depends on how you use Technopathic Strike. If you're looking at the board and mentally converting all the blue tiles to black before using you need to be able to convert them all because otherwise there's still a decent chance the tile you need converted doesn't get converted. On the other hand if you're just using it when you see a lot of blue on the board without thinking whether it will actually lead to a strong cascade then converting 8/9/all/whatever doesn't matter to you as much. While in theory you should mentally work it out, speed matters in this game too and if you're playing for speed you usually won't have time to figure out how Technopathic Strike is going to change the board exactly. This is similar to how there are boards that lead to better results with Illusions than others, but if you're in a hurry you just use Illusions whenever it's available because it's actually quite hard to figure out if a board is bad for illusions (usually because the TUs are in the wrong locations but it takes a while to figure this out).
    Even "in theory" if the board has a lot of blue it's usually worth using Strike for "only" a match-4 and/or a minicascade on your following move, to use a strong Black power on your next turn, instead of waiting and hoping for a big cascade opportunity multiple turns down the road
  • FYI, that Doom in the simulator is a 553 version.

    5 covers of purple could either ramp up damage more OR reduce damage per trap but increase traps per turn like Blade and Daken's powers.
  • OzarkBoatswain
    OzarkBoatswain Posts: 691 Critical Contributor
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    Patch's Berserker Rage beats Doom's purple cleanly.
  • Patch's Berserker Rage beats Doom's purple cleanly.
    What with the summoning of demons letting Doom live to have a turn after Berserker Rage was already a terrible idea so isn't it kind of a moot point? icon_e_wink.gif
  • This change makes Doom a lot like BP before they buffed Battleplan. His purple is way too good but it's balanced by his other two abilities being fairly unexciting, and it's fine as long as they don't decide that Summon Demons needs to do 3 times the damage next patch.
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
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    Teke184 wrote:
    FYI, that Doom in the simulator is a 553 version.
    How do you know this? You can't assume this just by reading the descriptions of the black and blue abilities because PVE opponents can be 5/5/5.
  • vudu3 wrote:
    Teke184 wrote:
    FYI, that Doom in the simulator is a 553 version.
    How do you know this? You can't assume this just by reading the descriptions of the black and blue abilities because PVE opponents can be 5/5/5.

    Depends on his level.

    Also I'm pretty sure the damage on his black is wrong on OP, since he now goes all the way up to 166.

    5/5/3 for me, and he'll be pretty damn powerful when scaled up.