Should 5* Wasp Be Fixed?

bbigler

I believe D3 is smarter than you think when it comes to keeping people interested in their game.  Let me explain: people will spend a lot of time and money to get something they're excited about.  In order to create that excitement, D3 will release really powerful characters every know and then, so that everyone has something to chase after.  These really powerful characters only look good when compared to everyone else.  If you removed all the bad characters, then the good ones are no longer special.  "And when everyone's super, then no one is."

Without contrast, everyone looks the same.  Thor, Okoye, JJ all look great because we have duds like Doc Ock, Banner and Wasp.  If you removed all the bottom tier characters, then the mid-tier characters become the new bottom tier.  Nevertheless, D3 has improved bad characters over time, which creates excitement too.  They only nerf characters when absolutely necessary, meaning that they're hurting the game. 

But what if all characters were at the same power level?  Well, this would be very hard to accomplish given the very different power sets of everyone.  It's hard to quantify and compare AP generation to damage output or special tile creation to true healing.  I think D3 does their best to create a variety of characters, but I also believe that some characters are not intended to be the best.  Which also means that some characters are intended to be awesome, like Gambit when he first came out. 

Let's also keep in mind that D3 doesn't know exactly how well received a new thing will be (they're not avid players like us, I bet), so it's a constant experiment releasing things and seeing how people react. 

bbigler

BlackBoltRocks said:

HoundofShadow said:

I think the devs mentioned that not all characters created will be useful when used competitively. Some would fall under the catgory of fun(?). So, I suppose Wasp falls under this category. 

The problem is, Wasp doesn’t even fall under the “fun” category. I would definitely call Doctopus “fun”. Bannerhulk...he’s better than Wasp, at least, as Banner can create strong Attack tiles, and Hulk has a decent AoE. Wasp? Her Swarm tiles lock the board, reducing flexibility. And they get matched away easily. And even when you can get 4 of them on the board, you need another 12AP. And she destroys her Swarm tiles, making you start all over again. Not fun.

My only conclusion is that she was either designed to be bad or the developers don't actually play the game. 

JHawkInc

The problem with that is that Okoye, JJ, and Thor are great compared to Black Bolt and Surfer and Thanos and Black Panther and Phoenix and Star-Lord and Spidey and Cap and Other Spidey and Other Cap and Iron Man and Gambit and Archangel and Ghost Rider and Wolverine and so on, and thus there's no reason for Banner/Ock/Wasp to be even worse.

Like, a good steak tastes better than a fast food cheeseburger, and you don't have to eat dirt to appreciate the difference.

Yes, there's a solid reason for some characters to be better, but there is NOT a need for some characters to be worse. You can avoid the problems of every character being the same without having duds. The bottom tier draws far more attention when it has one or two in the spotlight, than it does when it is a broad foundation for the other tiers. And most importantly, in a free to play game, it's bad to have something as rare as a 5* cover be a complete disappointment. 

professorplum9

HoundofShadow said:

I think the devs mentioned that not all characters created will be useful when used competitively. Some would fall under the catgory of fun(?). So, I suppose Wasp falls under this category. 

I totally get that everyone can't be the greatest and I appreciate you bringing up this developer comment. I just want to let the developers @Brigby @IceIX know that I don't consider Wasp fun and I don't think the vast majority of the player base does either (which again is a real tragedy because she was great in the movie). I had fun with Loki and Infinity War Cap and didn't mind playing (and actually enjoyed using) them when boosted in PVE, but Wasp has just been a complete drag. Again, I know I don't have black, but I've accumulated a lot of blue and yellow and I just ignore it. I can't even be bothered wasting time with useless Call the Swarm stuff while trying to quickly do PVE clears. Normally, I'd heal up a badly damaged 5E before doing their node in the final clears, but honestly it was better for me when she died and Okoye could go back to tanking black and yellow. I mean healthpack usage aside I really feel I would have been better off not dumping any ISO into her at all for this event. Usually the boosted match damage is really nice, but it's sad that I'm even questioning whether having her at a lower level would have been better. Again, even if I had her black I don't think I would consider her that fun (and even among the people that do have her champed I haven't heard any of them use the word fun to describe her). To give the black any teeth you have to mess around with the Call the Swarm mechanic and has already been pointed out it's not even a true heal. I've played with Archangel and Ock when boosted and I would take either of them over Wasp.

UNC_Samurai

.......

Dragon_Nexus

HoundofShadow said:

I think the devs mentioned that not all characters created will be useful when used competitively. Some would fall under the catgory of fun(?). So, I suppose Wasp falls under this category. 

That's fair enough. Gwenpool's fun to use. Ghost Rider 5*'s fun to use. I liked using Agent Venom once I got him champed, too and I always had a thing for Jubilee.

But Wasp is just...really dull. There's nothing fun to her mechanics. She just kinda exists and that's about it.

VoltaicDuke

I champed her only because of here usefulness in PVE when she is boosted/essential.  Even when she is boosted she is very underwhelming...

Steve111

Wasp is the only 5* that when boosted, can lose her own 5E node. ‘Nuff Said.

Richyyy

VoltaicDuke said:

I champed her only because of here usefulness in PVE when she is boosted/essential.  Even when she is boosted she is very underwhelming...

Mine's 2/2/2 and could therefore be raised to lvl345 (plus boosting on top). I decided it wasn't worth the 200k of iso.

As for fixing her, eh. There are plenty of other characters who've been around a lot longer who need fixing as well, including multiple 5*s. I'd be surprised if they started with Wasp.

whitecat31

I think a small percenage of my posts since Wasp has been released has mentioned how bad she is.  I even placed posts in the appropriate location in the forums to mention how bad she really is and suggestions to fix her.  She is in a bottom tier all by herself. She basically raised the value of Doc Ock and Banner. All of her abilities are bad and insulting to the character herself. She can't stun. She can't shrink herself (make herself invisible). The invisibility ability is garbage, if she is the last one left.  She has the worst heal in the game.  She is similar in garbage value and mechanics that the first four star invisible woman had. Many of her abilities are designed to limit her.  The Wasp four star version, would beat the five star version in a fight, if the levels were equal. Of course, that four star wasp was updated, after they released a garbage version of the four star.  Many of us have given suggestions in hopes of improvement.  The feeling among some of us, is somebody there does not like Wasp, and wants her to be horrid. She is a bit buggy. The match damage increase is not shown, for having the swarm tiles. There are times where she should tank, due to raised damage, but does not do so, even though her match damage should be the highest.  Call of swarm when used, actually decreases the amount of damage she will do over time, because of the loss of the swarm tiles. The Sting operation tile generation is a bit buggy, and it seems to ignore blue tiles creates by a cascade.  

whitecat31

Rod5 said:

I have Wasp champed and her main (and pretty much only) use is high match damage.

She is hot garbage.

This ^^^^^^^^^^

rdvargas1

Some easy fixes that would make wasp way better.  

Sting operation:  created swarm tiles should be repeaters or countdown tiles that generate attack tiles (similar to antman's ants ants ants)

Shrink tactics: this should turn Wasp invisible instead, then turn selected teammates invisible for a few turns ( like IW grant invisibility)

Pain Index:  should stun up to 4 turns as well with burst heal, or be a true heal.  

Call the swarm should either hit for way more damage like caps coup d grace, or function similar to 5* ghostriders hell ride by doing damage and generating AP by destroying tiles, or cost way less.  

steakleather

I suggested in the Suggestions forum that they simply lower the Call the Swarm AP cost, since it destroys all her special tiles. If it cost 7AP across the board for call the swarm, it could make her more interesting and useable.

The rockett

She is terrible, a total waste.  She needs to be fixed sooner than later. 

TPF Alexis

rdvargas1 said:

Call the swarm should either hit for way more damage like caps coup d grace, or function similar to 5* ghostriders hell ride by doing damage and generating AP by destroying tiles, or cost way less.  

Maybe have it do fixed damage, but cost less for each Swarm Tile on the board?

ZootSax

UNC_Samurai said:

.......

Stupid Sokovia Accords...I mean, Washington Naval Treaty.  

LordRayne

I champed her ahead of the Sim. Even boosted she is underwhelming to say the least. The developers have designed the upper level of this game to rely on speed, whether it's PvE or PvP. Wasp has neither power, cost efficiency nor speed. The only thing my 453 Wasp was good for in Sim was to bring her match dmg along with Thor and Chavez. I very much agree with Mr. Plum here in that there is zero excitement to get covers for her. 

That's not to say the situation can't be remedied.

I remember when they re-tuned the four star Wasp. She went from trash tier to pretty good very fast! What I enjoyed about four star Wasp's rebalance is that she got super useful all of a sudden. She helps a bunch of characters excel, and she's decent on her own, with cheap, useful powers on a spectrum. Did the rebalance lift her to the top of the meta? No. Did the rebalance place those who didn't have her yet at a disadvantage? No. Was she all of a sudden worth pursuing? Yes.

As long as she's in the Latest Legends pool, she is a target for usage of the most precious commodity in the game, command points. Even if we have to make the case to appeal to the developers' wallet (which is also fair), a rebalance would perhaps incentivise more players to spend it on her vault? As soon as Okoye leaves, I don't see any reason at all to spend CP till after Loki's gone. Surely that can't be good for sustainable business?

As a final point, I am happy that the developers weren't afraid to try something new for Wasp. It's just that sometimes you have to stop and be honest with yourself that the plan wasn't working. A rebalanced/buffed Wasp would send a signal to the community that even though the first iteration fell flat, they can own up to their misses and show a willingness to rectify.

Thanos

whitecat31 said:

Rod5 said:

I have Wasp champed and her main (and pretty much only) use is high match damage.

She is hot garbage.

This ^^^^^^^^^^

Also...this ^^^^^^^^^

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: 5* Wasp.

Brigby

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