Should 5* Wasp Be Fixed?

professorplum9

Do you feel fixing 5* Wasp should be a developer priority? It is understandable that not every 5* character can be a Thor or an Okoye, but should being a Banner or an Ock at the premier tier level be an option?

Rod5

I have Wasp champed and her main (and pretty much only) use is high match damage.

She is hot garbage.

Borstock

Rod5 said:

I have Wasp champed and her main (and pretty much only) use is high match damage.

She is hot garbage.

She really feels like a character that's meant to be the first of a few that use the swarm. Not sure I want a whole bunch of "swarm tile" characters, but she'd make at least SOME sense if they're about to drop a few more on us.

Rod5

Borstock said:

Rod5 said:

I have Wasp champed and her main (and pretty much only) use is high match damage.

She is hot garbage.

She really feels like a character that's meant to be the first of a few that use the swarm. Not sure I want a whole bunch of "swarm tile" characters, but she'd make at least SOME sense if they're about to drop a few more on us.

Yeah, if there was an IW Spidey-type power from another 5* that vomited Swarm tiles every turn she’d make more sense.

Trouble is, right now she’s her only battery and even with a ton of swarm tiles out her powers are underwhelming. Slow to get there, disappointing when you do.

pheregas

I have her at 4/4/4 and max leveled her for her match damage.  I have never gotten any use out of her blue or yellow skills.  Anything in my tier that takes 2 turns to resolve is almost useless.

Her black seems to do a low about of damage for a boosted 5*.  And why isn't her heal true healing?  Or is that a 5 cover thing?

Dragon_Nexus

Borstock said:

Rod5 said:

I have Wasp champed and her main (and pretty much only) use is high match damage.

She is hot garbage.

She really feels like a character that's meant to be the first of a few that use the swarm. Not sure I want a whole bunch of "swarm tile" characters, but she'd make at least SOME sense if they're about to drop a few more on us.

Hopefully when the DVD release happens we'll get 5* Michelle Pfeiffer.

So unless they retroactively change "Ants! Ants! Ants!" to drop swarm tiles that do the same thing somehow, or have 4* Wasp drop swarm tiles, 5* Wasp is really meeeh.

JHawkInc

It doesn't help that the Swam tiles are clunky. They're locked so you can't use them (they inhibit you as much as your opponent). They aren't special (locked, no other benefit). And then you get something like 5* Thor's green destroying them (because they're locked basic tiles, I guess he can target them). And you end up creating them on your colors, which makes it harder to acquire those colors. It's not like they generate AP (if they worked similar to Ghost Rider's green repeaters they might not be SO bad) or provide some effect once on the board. They just get in the way until you can set them off. (which isn't an exciting outcome)

I've had some fun using Wasp in DDQ with characters that reduce power cost, but she's still lackluster. You need two cost-reducers to turn Wasp into a disappointing character. I say that as someone who enjoys finding uses for characters, and has both Banner and Ock champed and enjoys using them (and, for the vets, champed and used Star-Lord back in the day before his buff)

professorplum9

I find (and I imagine others would as well) there's a different excitement to the game when chasing a quality 5*. Each LT draw is filled with rich anticipation. Most recently I felt this while trying to champ Okoye. It made playing each event more enjoyable and more of a challenge than a grind.

This is simply not the case with Wasp. In fact it's the exact opposite. I feel like I'm wasting a valuable resource chasing a character in the hopes that she'll be fixed someday (even though I've got Doc Ock and Banner staring me in my face and telling me this is a fools dream). When I pull the last cover I need to champ her, what do I have to look forward to? Hoarding until she leaves Latest tokens.

When I champ a Latest 5* (even one that may not be top tier) there's at least some consolation that they'll be useful when massively boosted in PVE when they are Essential. I can't help but think that even if I were to have her champed I'd still dread the PVE's she's boosted in.

Her whole Call the Swarm mechanic is a big convoluted mess. For how difficult it is to pull off it should be game ending. For the first MCU movie headlining heroine, this character seems to put the women's movement back several decades. #TIMESUP

I'll admit my 4/5/0 Wasp makes me not the best judge. No doubt, having her black at my disposal would make her less of a dead weight on her essential node. However, nothing I've read makes me believe she will ever be a serviceable representative of her tier. I've read multiple comments by people who do have her champed that feel the same way.

wymtime

I have Wasp championed at a level 455 and I have to agree with the damage felt with call of the swarm.  This cost 12 AP and in PVE when I have her boosted 100 levels she is still not doing a ton of damage.  Also as I am using her powers her cd get matched a lot and her swarm tiles get matched a lot.  My own 5* Thor keeps destroying her swarm tiles.  Her black is only burst healing and does not heal as much as Okoye true heal.

the devs should really fix both Wasp and Loki before they leave latest packs.  Both have potential but need rebalancing fast.

for characters that only come out every 6 there should not be so many duds

Borstock

If you're not going to make her competitive with the top of the tier, what's the difference? You'll only ever use her when you have to, anyway. 

BigSoftieFF

I wouldn’t bet on it though it would be nice. I believe the last meaningful rebalance was and will remain Gambit. The balance you seek is through supports that you have to whale to get.

Might as well get used to it.

turbomoose

I was disappointed when I opened my LL tokens as of the 20 I opened this month 3 were wasp covers 

to get 3 5* from that would normally be really pleasing as I didn’t hoard but at the moment it’s like “ oh no not wasp again!” 

Her stun power is useful  when paired with black Panther but her other powers really aren’t all that 

BlackBoltRocks

turbomoose said:

I was disappointed when I opened my LL tokens as of the 20 I opened this month 3 were wasp covers 

to get 3 5* from that would normally be really pleasing as I didn’t hoard but at the moment it’s like “ oh no not wasp again!” 

Her stun power is useful  when paired with black Panther but her other powers really aren’t all that 

Wasp doesn’t stun (but she really should); I assume you’re referring to her Yellow power, which turns an ally invisible and thus is good with 5* Panther

JHawkInc

My last EIGHT 5*s from LL tokens have been Wasp. Thankfully I open LLs and spend CP on classics, so I've pulled a nice mix of other characters, but LLs have been dumping on me hard. It's getting real old being bummed out that I got a 5* cover.

HoundofShadow

I think the devs mentioned that not all characters created will be useful when used competitively. Some would fall under the catgory of fun(?). So, I suppose Wasp falls under this category. 

Tony_Foot

I appreciate the odd turkey for breathing space in latest legends and hoarding. So no, I’m happy as she is. 

If they buff a 5* the only way I can ever see that being fair is if they then rotate them again through latest legends for x weeks. The new release vaults only allow you to spend CP which is hard for anyone that doesn’t hoard and they are so limited in time.

Its hard to rework these and then not give a way to get them that doesn’t scream hoard or miss out.

sinnerjfl

I say she needs several improvements because she just doesnt make any sense the way her
mechanics are at the moment. Its just a mess of ideas that partially work or just sabotage each other.

The whole swarm tile + call of the swarm stands out as very very poor design, its just bad all around.
The swarm tiles (despite being locked tiles) are constantly matched away and removed.
You can't have more than 4 at a time because ???
The match damage buff is too low.
And the big nuke is just garbage damage and removing all the tiles...      UGH.


She's not worthy of the 5* tier at the moment.

BlackBoltRocks

HoundofShadow said:

I think the devs mentioned that not all characters created will be useful when used competitively. Some would fall under the catgory of fun(?). So, I suppose Wasp falls under this category. 

The problem is, Wasp doesn’t even fall under the “fun” category. I would definitely call Doctopus “fun”. Bannerhulk...he’s better than Wasp, at least, as Banner can create strong Attack tiles, and Hulk has a decent AoE. Wasp? Her Swarm tiles lock the board, reducing flexibility. And they get matched away easily. And even when you can get 4 of them on the board, you need another 12AP. And she destroys her Swarm tiles, making you start all over again. Not fun.

tiomono

With saved covers does it matter if there is a bad character in latests? Just dont champ them but if the other 2 characters are solid or top of pack like okoye just go for it.

Saved covers can still be applied to a fully covered character so you are not stuck "wasting" that characters covers. If later on they get buffed or you get enough other strong characters you can then decide to collect your rewards later by champing them.

Banner and ock can still have their uses there will always be characters that are considered weak to the top end meta but can still be fun to use in a game. 

Ultimately I would still like to see the glaringly weak characters given some tweaks but realistically I'm not sure that will happen.

If they would increase her swarm tiles allowed or make the the single bees do some damage when matched or destroyed she would be better.

Silly comment time: If they release enough wasp level characters and do a reverse power creep they will have "buffed" banner and other current bottom tier 5*'s.

wymtime

HoundofShadow said:

I think the devs mentioned that not all characters created will be useful when used competitively. Some would fall under the catgory of fun(?). So, I suppose Wasp falls under this category. 

I think there is a difference between fun and usable even in PVE. Not the meta of PVP or simulator.  As having her championed I used her with 5eye and Coulson to get a lot of swarm tiles out and hit call the swarm repeatedly.  Her damage even with a 100 level boost is meh.  Her black health steal is burst healing not true healing and does not do much damage.  As a character she really needs to use all 3 colors to be usable even as a support character.  
Giving her a buff to call the swarm and or her black damage would go a long way to making her fun and usable.  She still would not be meta and that is ok.  Not all characters should be meta, but a 5* “support” character should be more usable than a meat shield in PVE when she is buffed.

DeNappa

Yeah, I think she needs a rework badly. Sooner better than later.

I've been chasing covers for Okoye (now at 1/5/4) while she's still in latest, but the last four or so 5* I pulled were Wasp covers (now at 6/2/1 ) and seeing the wasp logo after the 5* logo pops up makes me cringe.

A total rework would probably be best. I'm thinking something along the lines where she can still produce swarm tiles, the swarm tiles are used to fuel her powers.

For example: (okay, this might be a bit too convoluted, but i'll leave this anyway since I already took the effort to type it): One power creates swarm tiles. The other powers let you choose between several options, and more options are available if there are more swarm tiles present. One power can be based around damage, one around utility. Think stuff like:

• Sacrifice 1 swarm tile to stun the target for (total swarm tile count) turns.
• Sacrifice 1 swarm tile to heal your team (bonus heal for remaining swarm tiles)
• Sacrifice 2 swarm tiles to deal damage to the target (bonus dmg for remaining swarm tiles)
• Sacrifice 2 swarm tiles to steal AP or special tiles for each swarm tile on the board.
• Sacrifice all swarm tiles (but need at least 5) for big team damage

And maybe add a passive somewhere to create swarm tiles somehow or somehow react to them being matched.