Azor's Gateway Node needs to finally be nerfed

FindingHeart8

Azor's Gateway node is out of control (and I'm not just talking about the 999 ability).

Was keeping track of turns because wanted to do the "win in 10 turns" objective, perfect match to test out my Luminarch Ascension Teferi deck because I can basically get angels out every turn.  I know the AI has some creature removal but even if he kills my angels, I'll just bring back more, along with casting other creatures. 

Not even close.  The AI cascades into enough creature bounce/kill spells to keep me creature-less for 23 turns.

Every turn (past turn 2) I was able to bring angels to the field, every other turn with an additional creature, and I wasn't able to land a single point of damage on him for 23 tinykitty turns.

An AI that is capable of killing me on turn 4 (I've had it happen) should not also be able to make itself untouchable for close to a half hour of gameplay.

Mburn7

Yup, this is the second most ridiculous PvE fight I have ever seen (First is Samut from Trial of Zeal, and a close third is the minimum-2 hour Elenda fight)

Not sure how to nerf it, though.  Swap one of its removal spells for another annoying support?  That'll stop the stall at least.  No way to help the turn 4 kill, though.

Brakkis

Replace all or most of its four bounce/destroy spells with temporary disable spells.

wereotter

This is why this time around I've been using Diragaz and Gaia's Revenge since hexproof and a creature that keeps returning itself makes this easier.

But I will agree. This node was pretty much a nightmare before, and it's even worse now that we've also lost Manglehorn and By Force to keep the supports under control. Also there needs to be some kind of adjustment to the way the game handles the 999 damage. I lost a fight on this node, and when I came back 8 hours later, my planeswalker for that node was still trying to regenerate health from that match. She was still sitting at 0 health.

zolesz

Agree, Azor's Gateway can be super annoying. I sometimes managed to quickly rush over him with Samut, but that depended too much on luck, at least with my deck.

What might work more consistenly is e.g. Nicol Bolas, God Pharaoh with some of the following cards

• Darigaaz Reincarnated - returned when destroyed
• Despoiler of Souls - returned when destroyed (just keep enough mana in your hand)
• Squees - returned when destroyed
• Warcry Phoenix - returned when destroyed
• The Immortal Sun - to disable PW abilities
• Lich's Mastery - to prevent damage. Might be dangerous with all those gem destroyers, but it's better to lose 30 life than 999.
• River's Rebuke - to bounce / destroy creatures / supports / treasures
• Storm the Vault - to destroy supports / treasures and gain mana
  
• Sword of the Animist - to destroy supports / treasures (and gain mana)
  
• Volcanic Rambler - to destroy supports / treasures (and gain mana)
  
• Abbot of Keral Keep - to destroy supports / treasures (and gain mana)
  
• Demolish - to destroy supports / treasures
• + a bunch of kill / exile / bounce spells
• + probably some more I don't have / was lazy to discover.
  

Honorable mentions in other colors:

• Cleansing Nova (W)
• The Great Aurora (G)
• Murder Investigation (W)
• Demystify (W)
  

Any combination of the aboves can be used with Karn.

Narcoticsagent

Alpine moon is a great card that can help keep all this fights supports under control. If a land support isn't out the alpine moon will keep all the treasures knocked out. I run alpine moon in all my red decks. 

FindingHeart8

I keep hearing how awesome Alpine Moon is, I hope I get it soon lol

Enygma6

wereotter said:

... Also there needs to be some kind of adjustment to the way the game handles the 999 damage. I lost a fight on this node, and when I came back 8 hours later, my planeswalker for that node was still trying to regenerate health from that match. She was still sitting at 0 health.

This 999 damage is obscene.  
Set it to 140 and you can guarantee to kill any PW the player may be using in one shot.  Maybe make it 150 so they have a bit of wiggle room in future PW design if one goes super-tank.  
As it is, it now forces the player to use a Healing Potion if they want to use that same PW again at any point in the reasonable future when playing the game.  
  
Or, and this is a big or, they could actually fix the part of the game that allows the PW HP total to go below zero.  
If there were a hard limit of 0 hp, then the Player would just have the normal recovery time to heal back up, instead of having to heal ~900 points of damage just to get to 0.

Wolfteeth

Get rid of the mana cascading and it is fine.  This whole event was all mana cascades, it was not fun at all

bk1234

I didn’t have a problem with this node — in fact I’ve never had a problem with it. I think 4.1 and 5.1 need serious looks. 

Mburn7

Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.

bk1234

Mburn7 said:

Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.

Actually both of them for nuking their own creatures. 

Aeroplane

Haphazard Bombardment, Alpine Moon, Immortal Sun are great with Karn. Karn helps find these cards fast with his first ability. I throw in Infinite Obliteration to slow down his ramp, Dari ( hopefully he gets murdered and not thrown back to my hand), Djinn, Etali or any creature that makes a impact right away. Siren's Ruse and Oath of Teferi are great combo cards with Djinn. Haste and discarding creatures teamed with the above supports slow 5.2 down.

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.

Yeah Mavren is a piece of cake, my biggest issue with him was accidentally killing him before I took the 40 damage necessary to complete the second objective.

James13

I've lost to Mavren while aiming for objectives.  He can really go off exceptionally fast once he gets a flipped Legions landing out.  By contrast I've never once lost to 5.2 still

*shrug*

I guess 4.3 Elenda is the only one that particularly annoys me.  And I actually find 2.3 to be a surprising difficulty spike.

I also want to note that the multi-trigger when supports are matched can make 2.1 generate an instant death loop with molten vortex and his other ability reinforced red supports.

FindingHeart8

You've never lost to 5.2 ever?? *double checks to make sure cycling is out of standard*

Yeah Elenda is a pain too.  She basically demands you run lifelink vampire swarm against her to win.  It's annoying that you have to stick to that playstyle, but at least then you know you've got a decent shot at winning.

Unknown

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Gun Bunny

Now? Torgaar cannon
Before? Imminent doom with a healthy dose of support hate and draw effects

Laeuftbeidir

FindingHeart8 said:

You've never lost to 5.2 ever?? *double checks to make sure cycling is out of standard*

Yeah Elenda is a pain too.  She basically demands you run lifelink vampire swarm against her to win.  It's annoying that you have to stick to that playstyle, but at least then you know you've got a decent shot at winning.

Since I decided to only use creatures she plays as well, plus some steal, the fight essentially became a cake. I kill what I don't want and eat the rest.

Gun Bunny said:

Now? Torgaar cannon
Before? Imminent doom with a healthy dose of support hate and draw effects

I got him recently, how do you use him?

MTG_Mage

Ya this time around I also found 4.2 very difficult when I tried it with one of my default 'good' standard decks.
Then I built something that would beat it, which I found using the immortal sun with hexproof and/or haste/returning creatures worked fine.
Overall I much prefer one or two nodes that you realllly have to plan around as it makes it fun.

The damage should be lowered to 80 so all PWs at full health will survive a shot, but none will be able to take 2 hits.

FindingHeart8

MTG_Mage said:

Ya this time around I also found 4.2 very difficult when I tried it with one of my default 'good' standard decks.
Then I built something that would beat it, which I found using the immortal sun with hexproof and/or haste/returning creatures worked fine.
Overall I much prefer one or two nodes that you realllly have to plan around as it makes it fun.

The damage should be lowered to 80 so all PWs at full health will survive a shot, but none will be able to take 2 hits.

Yeah it wouldn't be as bad if you had a chance to recover.

With those cascades, and 1 shot insta-kill...it's as close as we've ever got to playing against a broken cycling deck