When to go for the 5* land / Next 4* champions

bk201

Hi experts!

I have a hoard of 200 LT and one strategy to jump to 5* land is to fully cover the latest. Is it worth to open it and try to cover Captain/Okoye/Wasp or Loki/Okoye/Wasp? Or should I keep collecting them and wait for the next? Don't know if they are a good start point.

And with that question, comes another: Which 4*s should I champ next? When I open those tokens, I'll get a bunch of them plus the bonus heroes.

I have every 4* rostered (except Nebula, of course), 24 of them are champed. For now, I have Iceman as my BH with 11 covers.
These are the non champed 4*s. Also, I have 3M iso, so I believe it's enough for 7 4*s without putting a single iso on 5*s.

12:  IW, Iron Fist
11:  Professor X, Punisher, Gwenpool, Iceman, Lockjaw, MEHulk, Winter Soldier, X-23
10:  Elektra, Miles, Fury, Nova, Peggy, Sam Wilson, Star-Lord, Wolverine
9:  Hulkbuster, Kingpin, Kraven, Mockingbird, Agent Venon
8:  Quake, Drax, Spider-Woman, TAHulk, Valkyrie
7:  MK, Black Widow, Carnage, Ghost Rider, America Chavez, Mr. Fantastic
6 or less:  War Machine, Jubilee, Kate Bishop, Shuri, Eddie Brock, Spider-Gwen, Wiccan, BPanther, Ghost, Spider-Man, Emma Frost

So, to make it easier (I think), let's say, who are the top 7 from those not champed? Whom should I aim for?
What do you think about the scenario?

Thanks in advance! Roster updated on 20/08

AlexNapalm

My suggestion would be continue hoarding LTs and CP until and pulling when the next 5* is announced. That way you'll be pulling from a pool of Okoye/Wasp/Loki. Of those three, I'd pull until Okoye and Loki were champable and consider stopping then. Okoye is just incredible and Loki looks like he can pair well with her. Wasp is not good but picking up some of her covers is a small price to pay to champ Okoye. 

Of your 4*s, Iceman, Peggy, Mockingbird, Valkyrie, America, Iron Fist and MEHulk would be my champ choices. 

Dormammu

You're kind of stuck in a bad spot. Okoye is awesome, Wasp is possibly the worst 5-star yet. There's no way to get Okoye at this point without wasting pulls on Wasp too because Okoye will leave the latest three first.

So if you want Okoye, that leaves you with the decision of Lumbercap vs. Loki. I only have one Loki cover so I don't have any experience with him, but on the surface I don't think he looks any better or worse than Lumbercap. They both do completely different things, though so one might be better for your play style.

I do have Lumbercap at twelve covers and lv 435. To me he's okay. His red can end a fight definitively and his purple is fun to use when trying to shut down opposing teams who obviously rely on one or two colors.

If you're not completely sold on Okoye, your best option is then to wait until both Lumbercap and Wasp (and possibly even Loki) leave latest three and see what your prospects look like then. There will always be another 5-star who comes along that everyone will gotta have; Okoye certainly won't be the last of those.

Quebbster

Dormammu said:

I do have Lumbercap at twelve covers and lv 435. To me he's okay.

He's LumberCap and he's okay, he sleeps all night and he works all day!

...*ahem* I agree with the analysis. Considering Cap leaves Latest on Monday, there is not enough time to get covers for him right now. Keep hoarding until the next fivestar is announced and make your decision then.

bk201

Thanks @AlexNapalm, @Dormammu and @Quebbster for the answers and sorry for my late reply! I had a busy weekend, couldn't answer but I did read it before Loki replaced Cap.

Before making any decision, I've looked again at these characters abilities and agree with you: Okoye is the best among them, LumberCap and Loki seems ok, and Wasp doesn't worth it imo.

So, I decided to keep hoarding LT until the next 5*s. It looks like they are releasing one per month. Is it right? If so, I'll have 3-4 months, at least, before all those 3 are replaced and 3-4 opportunities to make that decision again.

Dormammu said:

There will always be another 5-star who comes along that everyone will gotta have; Okoye certainly won't be the last of those.

Exactly!

AlexNapalm said:

Of your 4*s, Iceman, Peggy, Mockingbird, Valkyrie, America, Iron Fist and MEHulk would be my champ choices. 

Meanwhile, I'll invest on these 4*s. Really liked your recommendation, but what about Punisher and X-23? Any thoughts?

Quebbster

The usual release Schedule has a fivestar release every six weeks - it's two fourstar releases and then a fivestar release. Sometimes they break the pattern though, Thor and Okoye were both released only four weeks after the previous fivestar.

Dormammu

bk201 said:
...but what about Punisher and X-23? Any thoughts?

Punisher is top-middle tier among the 4-star group. He does some serious damage with his black and green. When he's boosted, MaxPun is an absolute monster. His only downside is he can be a bit slow.

I consider X-23 to be a poorly designed character. Her healing ability requires that she tank her colors, which can be frustratingly difficult to arrange depending on her teammates. It severely limits the teams she can be a part of, especially if she's one of your lowest leveled 4-stars. Her purple is is an awful power that often results in no damage ever occurring, despite a the AP cost. Her green is okay... but there are a lot better green options in the 4-star tier.

bk201

Quebbster said:

The usual release Schedule has a fivestar release every six weeks - it's two fourstar releases and then a fivestar release. Sometimes they break the pattern though, Thor and Okoye were both released only four weeks after the previous fivestar.

Thanks for the info! Probably I'll have even more time than I imagined to hoard LT before making that decision again.

Dormammu said:

Punisher is top-middle tier among the 4-star group. He does some serious damage with his black and green. When he's boosted, MaxPun is an absolute monster. His only downside is he can be a bit slow.

I consider X-23 to be a poorly designed character. Her healing ability requires that she tank her colors, which can be frustratingly difficult to arrange depending on her teammates. It severely limits the teams she can be a part of, especially if she's one of your lowest leveled 4-stars. Her purple is is an awful power that often results in no damage ever occurring, despite a the AP cost. Her green is okay... but there are a lot better green options in the 4-star tier.

Thanks for your insight, it was very helpful! I've played with her before reaching  11 covers, when she was featured, and I thought it would be a solid option after champed. There are so many 4*s these days that it's hard to figure out who worths the effort without using it properly.

bk201

Hi again! What are your thoughts about Kitty Pryde?

For now, I have mixed feelings about her. As I use Grocket a lot, her yellow passive looks interesting, but Nico offers a similar ability (although I don't use Nico that much). Her purple seems very useful against special tile creators, but the red power doesn't look good.

If I'm not wrong, she'll enter the latest in two weeks. I can see 2 options:

1. Choose between her and Okoye and try to cover the chosen character, also getting Wasp and Loki covers.
Basically, Loki/Okoye/Wasp or Loki/Kitty/Wasp.

2 Or keep hoarding, wait for the next release, and make that decision again between Loki/Kitty/ Wasp and Loki/Kitty/New 5*

Dormammu

If you have a chance to fully cover Okoye I say go for it, even if it means you'll be getting Loki and Wasp as well. But if you don't have enough pulls to have a decent chance at her, you're better off waiting until after Loki and Wasp leave the latest three and see what the 5-star landscape looks like then.

Kitty seems neat, but not neat enough for me to chase after right now. I'm hoarding for post-Loki/Wasp. I have a feeling in my gut that there is a 5-star Captain Marvel coming for her movie release that will be meta-defining, so I may even hoard past Kitty. I'll see what opinions are on her after she's been out a while and people report on her performance.

bk201

Thanks @Dormammu and @BlackBoltRocks for the replies!

Dormammu said:

Kitty seems neat, but not neat enough for me to chase after right now. I'm hoarding for post-Loki/Wasp. I have a feeling in my gut that there is a 5-star Captain Marvel coming for her movie release that will be meta-defining, so I may even hoard past Kitty. I'll see what opinions are on her after she's been out a while and people report on her performance.

BlackBoltRocks said:

As for 5* Captain Marvel, that's my gut feeling as well. In my country Captain Marvel will be released on 7 May; coincidentally, that's exactly 24 weeks after Kitty's release. So assuming they stick to the six-week schedule throughout, Carol would be the fourth 5* after Kitty.

That would be awesome! Hope your gut feelings are right! I really didn't realize they might release a strong character along with the movie. (I think you made a confusion, Cap Marvel will be released on March and the next Avengers on May) Anyway, as you said, if they stick to the schedule, by that time, we'll have 3 different 5*s on Latest and the next announcement. What are 6 months of wait in this extensive marathon, right?

Dormammu said:

If you have a chance to fully cover Okoye I say go for it, even if it means you'll be getting Loki and Wasp as well. But if you don't have enough pulls to have a decent chance at her, you're better off waiting until after Loki and Wasp leave the latest three and see what the 5-star landscape looks like then.

Well, I have a chance but to fully cover, I think I'll need to be quite lucky. ATM I have 230 tokens (215 LT and CP for 15 pulls). What is the safe amount to get, at least, 13 covers? Maybe 300?

As you said earlier, I'm not completely sold on Okoye. She looks very solid on her own but not a game changer. I mean, IMHO, I see her in any team but can't figure out combinations with great synergy. But it's just my impression when I look at her power's description.

BlackBoltRocks said:

@bk201 looking at your roster, I don't see Okoye there. Do you have her in your roster? If not, I recommend skipping her and continuing to hoard. With 200 LTs, on average you'll get 10 covers for each 5*, and that could include dupes. Skip both her and Wasp (Wasp is rubbish), and continuing hoarding your LTs and CPs until the next 5* kicks Wasp out. Then you can consider pulling for Loki/Kitty/whoever's the next 5*. Loki and Kitty are both very solid; they're not metagame-defining like GladiaThor/Okoye, and not as good as others like Black Bolt, Daredevil, or Jessica, but they're decent choices for your first few 5* champs. Loki can do a lot of damage with his Purple, and his Black might see some use in PvE (his Green sucks). Kitty can create strong Protect and Attack tiles which she can buff (along with your other friendly tiles) and her Purple is a good counter to S/A/P creators/spammers like Carnage, Carol Danvers, R4G, etc.

No, I don't have her. Roster is updated regarding the 5*s. Just need to update some 3* levels and other 4*s covers.

I can see some uses for Kitty, but maybe it's just my play style. I agree with you both, she seams neat, above average. On her own, probably she isn't as good as Okoye, but she can pair well with some and can be good against others. Also, agree on Loki, he looks solid but not a game changer. But I think it's not enough to have 2 good powers out of 3 to make me jump into 5*. For me, to spend my hoard trying to cover 3 characters, they need to be very good on their own, or have great synergy with others (5* or 4*), or pair well between them. Maybe this won't happen on the Latest tokens, but I think I'll keep waiting and hoarding.

BlackBoltRocks

Oh believe me, Okoye is an absolute beast. She shines by buffing the attack damage of her allies, and she has significant endurance thanks to her high health and true healing. I use Okoye/Black Bolt/Dr Strange to speed through goons; the main strategy is to match Team-Up tiles. If the board is favourable, by turn 4 onwards I’m dealing at least 20k damage passively.

bk201

BlackBoltRocks said:

As to your second question, my top seven 4* from your unchamped list (in my opinion, no particular order): Iceman, America Chavez, Mockingbird, Shuri, Valkyrie, Panther, Punisher.

Opened some Classics after the original post and got covers for Iceman, he's championed and boosted in the current PvE, piece of cake! No regrets, he's awesome!

I'll keep an eye on Shuri and BPanther, only have 6 and 4 covers, respectively. Looks like they have a great synergy together.

For now:
- Valkyrie, Mockingbird and America are my priorities to get covers. I see them a lot PvP, think they'll be very useful. 
- Punisher, MEHulk and IF are almost there, maybe on the next classics pull.
- I think Shuri and BPanther goes here.
- Peggy would be fully covered now if it wasn't for so many red dupes (2 saved + 2 sold before this feature)

BlackBoltRocks said:

Keep in mind that there are A LOT of combinations in 4* land. So your choice of champions is also largely dependent on who you already have champed/planning to champ. Example 1: Luke Cage/Iron Fist/Professor X is a very solid combo. Example 2: Iron Spider/Miles Morales/Spider-Gwen is another very good trio. Example 3: Shuri, Mr Fantastic, and either Black Panther or MEHulk.

Absolutely, there are a lot of combinations, I discover at least a new one every event! By the way, didn't thought about LC/IF with Professor X. Maybe he's a good candidate to be in the next batch of 4*s to champion as he have 11 covers.

Dormammu

bk201 said:

As you said earlier, I'm not completely sold on Okoye. She looks very solid on her own but not a game changer. I mean, IMHO, I see her in any team but can't figure out combinations with great synergy. But it's just my impression when I look at her power's description.

She changed my game the second she hit my roster and it hasn't been the same since. In my opinion, she's the best character in the game right now. With 230 pulls, you have a good shot at getting her fully covered. I did it with less. Keep in mind you'll get more pulls out of those from 4-star champ rewards (CP/LT).

bk201

BlackBoltRocks said:

Oh believe me, Okoye is an absolute beast. She shines by buffing the attack damage of her allies, and she has significant endurance thanks to her high health and true healing. I use Okoye/Black Bolt/Dr Strange to speed through goons; the main strategy is to match Team-Up tiles. If the board is favourable, by turn 4 onwards I’m dealing at least 20k damage passively.

Dormammu said:
She changed my game the second she hit my roster and it hasn't been the same since. In my opinion, she's the best character in the game right now. With 230 pulls, you have a good shot at getting her fully covered. I did it with less. Keep in mind you'll get more pulls out of those from 4-star champ rewards (CP/LT).

Ohhh, now I see how good she is! Don't know what happened, think I misread her passive and kept in mind she only increases her powers, not friendlies. Sorry for that!

Reading her thread, BlackBoltRocks said she boosts Dr Strange's passive Faltine Flames, but not Medusa's Entanglement. So, she only boosts powers that deal direct damage (active or passive), but not powers that create countdowns/repeaters that deal damage? For example, C4rol's Photonic Barrage cd, Vulture's One Fell Swoop cd, etc. Now I can see her with a lot of 4*s that I have championed but not with others.

Still confused, I have 1 more week to decide if I go for her. (or wait for others, maybe C5rol, who knows)

Waddles_Pines

bk201 said:

Reading her thread, BlackBoltRocks said she boosts Dr Strange's passive Faltine Flames, but not Medusa's Entanglement. So, she only boosts powers that deal direct damage (active or passive), but not powers that create countdowns/repeaters that deal damage? For example, C4rol's Photonic Barrage cd, Vulture's One Fell Swoop cd, etc. Now I can see her with a lot of 4*s that I have championed but not with others.

Okoye's black adds onto Medusa's countdown passive damage, but not the attack tiles she creates if matched.  If I remember correctly, any countdown that does damage is amplified by Okoye (carol, vulture, etc).  The only countdowns/repeaters that don't count are the ones where the damage comes from the destruction of tiles only (think 5* GR green, 5* Thor passive <50% health).  

ThaRoadWarrior

I think the distinction is that countdowns are owned by a character (go away after the creating character is downed), and thus fit the description of "Friendly Powers" whereas attack tiles belong to a team (persist after the character who created them is downed), and are exempt from that. So this hurts you using Okoye with attack tile generators, but helps you when fighting Rogue who doesn't reduce their incoming damage for instance since Leading the Charge reduces damage from "enemy matches and powers".

Dormammu

bk201 said:

Reading her thread, BlackBoltRocks said she boosts Dr Strange's passive Faltine Flames, but not Medusa's Entanglement. So, she only boosts powers that deal direct damage (active or passive), but not powers that create countdowns/repeaters that deal damage? For example, C4rol's Photonic Barrage cd, Vulture's One Fell Swoop cd, etc. Now I can see her with a lot of 4*s that I have championed but not with others.

Still confused, I have 1 more week to decide if I go for her. (or wait for others, maybe C5rol, who knows)

She adds to Medusa's countdown tile - Okoye adds damage to any countdown that results in damage, just like @Waddles_Pines said.

Dig this - if you team her with XF Deadpool in PvP against other 5-stars, their match damage will trigger his passive ability that makes 1-turn damaging countdown tiles. Okoye boosts them with her passive and the damage goes through the roof. Add Drax as a third and his passive triggers every time a countdown reaches zero and does more damage... boosted by Okoye. So with Okoye and two 4-stars I can slaughter through any set of champed 5-stars, no matter who they are, in a tiny number of turns. Okoye tanks all colors and true heals off her yellow, so even though she's taking hits I don't use any health packs. I take a large number of losses on retals because they suck on defense, but who cares?

In PvE I put her with Medusa and Strange and they'll tear through any set of three goons in about 4-5 turns. If I'm really in a hurry (seeking placement) I swap out Strange for Thanos and Okoye boosts Court Death, so any team (goons or active, it doesn't matter) are wiped out in 2-3 turns as long as there is Team-Up AP available.

bk201

Thanks @Waddles_Pines and @ThaRoadWarrior for clarifying this! Also, nice tip to use her against Rogue!

Dormammu said:

Dig this - if you team her with XF Deadpool in PvP against other 5-stars, their match damage will trigger his passive ability that makes 1-turn damaging countdown tiles. Okoye boosts them with her passive and the damage goes through the roof. Add Drax as a third and his passive triggers every time a countdown reaches zero and does more damage... boosted by Okoye. So with Okoye and two 4-stars I can slaughter through any set of champed 5-stars, no matter who they are, in a tiny number of turns. Okoye tanks all colors and true heals off her yellow, so even though she's taking hits I don't use any health packs. I take a large number of losses on retals because they suck on defense, but who cares?

In PvE I put her with Medusa and Strange and they'll tear through any set of three goons in about 4-5 turns. If I'm really in a hurry (seeking placement) I swap out Strange for Thanos and Okoye boosts Court Death, so any team (goons or active, it doesn't matter) are wiped out in 2-3 turns as long as there is Team-Up AP available.

Awesome combo for PvP! For someone who is way less than halfway of championing the 4*s, she would be a great addition as she pairs well with several!

BlackBoltRocks said:

With regards to Okoye's thread, I made that comment when it was still not clear what her Black did or did not boost. I think it got fixed a little. For example, when Okoye first came out she boosted Gambit's Red bonus damage when he destroyed Charged tiles; shortly after, it was fixed so that she didn't boost Gambit's Red.

@bk201 how goes your current stash? According to your last update, you have 215 LTs and around 375CP. If you've since added to that, and can get a decent amount of CP and LTs in the next 3-4 days, you have a good shot at getting around 11-12 covers for Okoye (that's based on my estimate of you having at least 217 LTs and 400CP). Take into account LTs and CPs from champ rewards, and setting Okoye as your sole 5* BH, and you have a decent chance of covering her. (I don't want to get your hopes up though; RNG is a fickle beast heh.) But yes, as mentioned, you should be able to get 11-12 covers for Okoye, and pray that you don't get dupe covers. Then you can finish her off via Bonus Heroes and/or Shuri feeding her.

My current stash is 215 LT + 550 CP (or 22 LT), total of 237 tokens. Plus, champ rewards. Yeah, RNG is killing me lately, not getting anything different of 2*s from Elite, Heroic and Events tokens during this week.

Questions:

1) What to expect from scaling after start levelling a 5*? I assume the impact will be greater on PvP

2) When she'll leave the latest: 10/01 or 10/08?

3) What are the odds/statistics of getting 5* covers of her from LT?
There's is a 15% chance of getting a 5*, so 5% getting an Okoye cover, is that right?
If so, opening all 237 tokens, I'll probably get 35~36 5*s, hoping/praying to get more Okoye and less Wasp. Plus BH covers of her.

bk201

Thanks @BlackBoltRocks!

Great thread, it helped a lot to understand what to expect after leveling/championing the first 5*.

So I was excited as I have more time to get as much LT and CP as possible to increase the chances of getting 13 covers of Okoye, and then I read this:

New Character!

• Cable (Nathan Summers)
• 5-Star Character
• More details to come!

Hope they reveal the details of the man who will kick Wasp out of the latest legends before 8 Oct.

Dormammu

It sounds like Cable details, according to Brigby, will be here next week. But from what I've already heard from people who were watching closely during the gameplay footage in the Anniversary video he's shaping up to be pretty good. Cheap abilities with at least one big nuke that works somewhat like Valkyrie's red.

But don't let that derail you from Okoye. Cable won't enter tokens for a while. He won't even be released for another three weeks and won't enter tokens until a couple of weeks after that. Then you'll have (roughly) 18 more weeks before he leaves. That's a lot of time to rebuild the hoard.