Core set 2019 future?

Brakkis

bken1234 said:

Brakkis said:

bken1234 said:

MarvinFine said:

Mburn7 said:

In summary, we're going to have to deal with TSN, Starfield, Gaia, and the rest of Origins for a very long time, no matter what we say or do.

Honestly I think this is wishful thinking. Clearly, some directives about this game come down from WOTC, and I can't see WOTC wanting this spin off game to revolve around Origins long after the paper game has moved on.

Rewriting the tutorials really isn't as big a job as you make out, and the players will get over rotation, just like they did when Standard was introduced into MTGPQ and paper.

The key problem to solve, as you point out, is probably new players entering the game just before rotation, but I think there are solutions... making both Origins and the new set legal for a period of time during rotation, or perhaps guaranteeing new players who sign up a minimum amount of time for which their cards will be legal. maybe even just giving them a ton of free crystals.

And what about players who return to the game and find 100% of their cards unusable. 

A unique thing about this game is the "they always come back" phenomenon. Players will leave for 3 months, 6 months, 18 months and they seem to find their way back. 

We have had several of my top 10 teammates come back after 6-18 months out of the game and they are able to get a good jump start because of their Origins collections. 

My alt is in Platinum and half of the standard cards there are Origins. In short -- it can't just go away, pretty much ever. It can be renamed, or built on -- but those cards can't go away without alienating part of the player base. 

The "returning player" argument is garbage and semi-invalidated by any number of MMO style games out there that also has the "they always come back" player base. For instance, If I were to return to World of Warcraft right now I'd be stuck running around in gear from 3 expansions ago and super low level comparatively. I was one of the top 50 players in the world when I quit. I wouldn't get any sort of compensation for returning and I wouldn't be immediately capable of jumping in to new content. I have to work for it.

A returning player here would be on the same level as a new player and that is completely fine. You don't get to compete just because you used to play. You stopped playing. You came back to a different playing field. Time to work for it like anyone else. It's the price to be paid for stopping playing for an extended period of time.

You made an investment in this game four months ago, or sixth months ago, or a year ago. The investment period has worn off. Time to reinvest.

Origins being permanent made some sense when WOTC was no longer doing Core Sets. That stance has changed and the game should change to reflect that. I love my Origins cards, but they need to not be permanently in Standard.

A returning platinum player comes back to platinum with a virtually unusable collection. So they aren’t on the same level of a new player and the argument is completely valid. 

They have a virtually unusable standard collection, like a new player has no collection at all.

They have the capacity to compete better than a new player in any legacy based event.

They can accrue resources to build a standard collection by participating in TG and getting the daily rewards, like a new player.

They won't be able to compete as well in a standard coalition event, like a new player won't. Being in Bronze or Platinum doesn't change that.

Chances are pretty decent that a returning player comes back to the game with an already accumulated amount of in-game currency, unlike a new player.

Sounds to me a lot like a returning player is at the same level if not slightly above the level of a new player. As I said, they'll need to work to get back to a competitive level akin to the effort a new player will have to put in. You do not get to stop playing a competitive game and come back at the same level you left at. 

Edit - I do, however, agree that the Mastery Tier system needs to be heavily reworked and am a huge fan of the system determining your mastery based on the cards you have mastered in Standard vs the cards you have mastered in Legacy.

You can be a Platinum Legacy player but a Bronze Standard player, or vice versa.

TheDude1

bken1234 said:

A returning platinum player comes back to platinum with a virtually unusable collection. So they aren’t on the same level of a new player and the argument is completely valid. 

This could be directly solved if the events used mastery of only the cards available to be used in the event.  So standard events would only look at current standard card mastery, not the cumulative mastery going back from when the game first started. 

See my thread here in the suggestions forum: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/73484/event-tier-status-based-on-available-cards

There are any number of reasons that the game should be structured with a "rolling" tier status, not least of which is it encourages people to continually engage/invest in the most current version of the game, all without penalizing people with no exposure to parts of the game that aren't relevant to that event.

 A returning player playing standard?  No sweat, you're now just a Bronze since the event has no interaction with the old stuff that you can't even use.  You still get to use your leveled-up planeswalkers so you get some benefit from your past play, but you're not completely overwhelmed.  If you want the cumulative tier status, play a Legacy event with all decks open. 

You shouldn't have to be permanently stuck at Platinum when the game moves on - either in fairness to your true ability to compete or in fairness of the rewards you're given.  No fully functional loyalty program, rewards system, ranking setup, etc has a permanent cumulative tier status without some sort of re-evaluation period/reset point.

EDITED to add:  This seems off-topic, but it's directly related to the Origins/Core discussion.  If Origins gets rotated out, who cares?  Sure, you can't use Origins cards anymore, but you're also no longer bound to your mastery level of Origins and would start fresh.  Worried that this is too sudden a transition for most players? OK!  As proposed above, you could have Origins as the base for a while and keep Core as a co-standard, then eventually phase Origins out in some events while keeping Core as the new base to give players time to adjust.

Rotating out Core is just the latest in the cycle that will only get worse as we continue to accumulate sets in Legacy without resetting/revising tiers.  Right now there are 5 sets in Standard and 8 in Legacy, but the Legacy number will only keep growing as new sets rotate in.  Eventually you're going to have so many people in Platinum tier based on sets they no longer use that it becomes meaningless (unless that's the point?).

Buizel

Why not have so many commons and uncommons from Origins (or any base sets that were to ever replace it) be given as free to each player. You can't craft them or open them, like Hearthstone base cards. That way you don't have to worry nonstop about each new or returning player losing their mind when trying to play in events without any legal cards. 
I feel like having 10-20 cards of each color always unlocked would solve a lot of entry issues. 

wereotter

Buizel said:

Why not have so many commons and uncommons from Origins (or any base sets that were to ever replace it) be given as free to each player. You can't craft them or open them, like Hearthstone base cards. That way you don't have to worry nonstop about each new or returning player losing their mind when trying to play in events without any legal cards. 
I feel like having 10-20 cards of each color always unlocked would solve a lot of entry issues. 

If you bought the 10 Origins walkers, they all came with a deck of 10 cards from that set in their color. Problem was back then, those cards were pretty much all common, and only good for new players.