Is it time to do a purge of inactive coalitions?

bk1234
bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
edited August 2018 in MtGPQ General Discussion
Our alliance started a new coalition last Monday. They went into RtO with 15 active players and finished with an all time score of 2472 -- and their all time rank jumped from 24,492 to 8984 -- that's 15, 508 spots in one week.  

In the past few months, we've noticed that when our top 500 all time coalitions open spots, they don't get filled. We've even gone so far in weeks when several teams who rank all time from top 10 to top 500 have open spots to do random searches for them. After hours and hours, none of them ever pops up. 

Top 10 spots fill fast because everyone can see those teams -- but all of the coalitions in this game who aren't attached to a top 10 coalition are at a distinct disadvantage because we have at least 15,000 coalitions who we can safely assume are inactive. 

That means players looking for teams cannot find them because teams looking for players, opening spots for players are not searchable. 

Yesterday was the 2 year anniversary of coalition play -- I think it's reasonable to call for a purge of inactive coalitions. 

Coalition play is the biggest factor in engagement and retention in this game. If great players can't find teams and great teams can't find players, that amazing tool and the entire meta of the game is a moot point. 
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Comments

  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    The coalition part seems to be avoided by the devs. It's still the base implementation, with no advanced searching tools etc.. Any update to it would probably be good for the game, and this suggestion targets directly the newer players. So.. I think it'd be important, especially to make the game more attractive for new players
  • ManiiNames
    ManiiNames Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    We split off from TerraNova (was 22nd ranked) and formed TheCartel.  Started at like 28k rank, after two weeks (came in 23rd! last weekend) now we are in 5000th or so?  Acceleration is insane, so yea that points to many dead / inactive coalitions for sure.  

    Here's the thing though, what is the benefit (revenue generation) of deleting the inactive ones?
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    We split off from TerraNova (was 22nd ranked) and formed TheCartel.  Started at like 28k rank, after two weeks (came in 23rd! last weekend) now we are in 5000th or so?  Acceleration is insane, so yea that points to many dead / inactive coalitions for sure.  

    Here's the thing though, what is the benefit (revenue generation) of deleting the inactive ones?
    The benefit is increased engagement and retention. That means spenders stay around longer. 
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    Another idea — whose credit goes to @boopers from his Q&A question is making the all time leaderboard scrollable. This would allow people to click on any coalition in the leaderboard. 

    It’s definitely not a solution, but it would be a big help. 
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't really see the issue here.

    Sure there are probably a lot of dead coalitions or coalitions run by super-casuals or only a few active players, but active players with coalitions speeding past the inactives is a motivator to keep playing this game, not a deterrent. 

    On top of that, purging inactive coalitions might also alienate returning players.

    I dunno though, my coalition isn't that high and there's consistently about an hour or two window maximum between me booting a player and a new one joining.  I'd be amazed to hear a longer turnover with higher coalitions.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't really see the issue here.

    Sure there are probably a lot of dead coalitions or coalitions run by super-casuals or only a few active players, but active players with coalitions speeding past the inactives is a motivator to keep playing this game, not a deterrent. 

    On top of that, purging inactive coalitions might also alienate returning players.

    I dunno though, my coalition isn't that high and there's consistently about an hour or two window maximum between me booting a player and a new one joining.  I'd be amazed to hear a longer turnover with higher coalitions.
    Our top 25 and 50 coalitions can open for 4 days and never have anyone join. 

    Our top 10 coalitions can go a whole day -- and those who do join find them by the all time leaderboard, not by the search functions.

    My biggest concern is the feedback I get from players when they join the alliance. Mostly how they're close to quitting the game because they've jumped from one dead coalition to another. 

    Also after posting this, I did an experiment last night since I was a passenger on a long drive. Knowing of 6 top 100 coalitions who need players and have open spots (mostly outside of my alliance) and about 10 more fairly new teams who are not top 100 all time, but are very active and do well in events, I hit the refresh on the random search for about an hour. Each time checking the coalitions that came up. Not a single one had any chat history. They were all dead. I looked at over 100 teams. 

    If a player is doing this and taking an hour of their time just to not find an active team -- what kind of experience is that for them?

    Perhaps the solution is what I said above -- only teams that have put up (any) points in the last 7 days should be searchable using the random search function. 

    But it's clear, I've done the experiments -- great players are not finding great, active teams -- and great coalitions are not finding great, active players. 
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wonder, what if you could sort coalitions by average individual score over the last month (or 2 or 3 months for better average)

    That would be a sort by activity while simultaneously allowing people to pick coalitions that might be a good fit for them.  I know a lot of the time its good for a top coalition to get a newer player and build them up, but for some top players who are languishing in dead coalitions this could help them get out.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    I don't really see the issue here.

    Sure there are probably a lot of dead coalitions or coalitions run by super-casuals or only a few active players, but active players with coalitions speeding past the inactives is a motivator to keep playing this game, not a deterrent. 

    On top of that, purging inactive coalitions might also alienate returning players.

    I dunno though, my coalition isn't that high and there's consistently about an hour or two window maximum between me booting a player and a new one joining.  I'd be amazed to hear a longer turnover with higher coalitions.
    Our top 25 and 50 coalitions can open for 4 days and never have anyone join. 

    Our top 10 coalitions can go a whole day -- and those who do join find them by the all time leaderboard, not by the search functions.

    My biggest concern is the feedback I get from players when they join the alliance. Mostly how they're close to quitting the game because they've jumped from one dead coalition to another. 

    Also after posting this, I did an experiment last night since I was a passenger on a long drive. Knowing of 6 top 100 coalitions who need players and have open spots (mostly outside of my alliance) and about 10 more fairly new teams who are not top 100 all time, but are very active and do well in events, I hit the refresh on the random search for about an hour. Each time checking the coalitions that came up. Not a single one had any chat history. They were all dead. I looked at over 100 teams. 

    If a player is doing this and taking an hour of their time just to not find an active team -- what kind of experience is that for them?

    Perhaps the solution is what I said above -- only teams that have put up (any) points in the last 7 days should be searchable using the random search function. 

    But it's clear, I've done the experiments -- great players are not finding great, active teams -- and great coalitions are not finding great, active players. 
    well that's very interesting to hear.  I've never been outside the castle walls of the coalition I started (which consistently refills very quickly after I boot an inactive).  I had no idea it was such a barren wasteland out there.

    Going off the information you've provided.  If they the developers don't do a purge, they should add an option to display coalitions by player activity (like last time a player logged into it).

    This would also be a good feature to add to coalitions, so co-leaders can be aware of the last time a member logged in.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    The problem with adding that feature is it doesn't help the search issue -- yes, players can see better if a coalition is active, but they can see that when they enter it anyway -- however, they're still going to spend hours and hours coming across only dead coalitions before they find the right one. 

    When a brand new coalition that isn't full jumps more than 15,000 all-time spaces in one PvP event we have a problem. This means 15,000 coalitions have put up less than 2.4K points in 2 years (I put up this much alone in a month with the right mix of events)-- and these are all what are coming up in searches. 

    The system is broken -- no one realizes it because, like you, they don't leave the castle walls. 
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
    I see what you're saying in that there's a lot of clutter (aka the rubble of dead coalitions scattered across the land) but I'm not sure if that qualifies as a broken system.

    If I was a new player, not trying to start my own coalition, and looking to join another...I would try to find the highest level coalition that has an open spot.  Perhaps if players could scroll through all the lists, see which ones have openings, and when players last logged into the coalition, perhaps that would solve the problem.

    A dead coalition is going to sink to the bottom of the ranks, so new players should be able to catch on pretty quickly that if they don't want to join a dead coalition, to seek a higher ranking coalition.  This should be an intrinsic pursuit, as you don't play this game to intentionally have a low score lol.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    I see what you're saying in that there's a lot of clutter (aka the rubble of dead coalitions scattered across the land) but I'm not sure if that qualifies as a broken system.

    If I was a new player, not trying to start my own coalition, and looking to join another...I would try to find the highest level coalition that has an open spot.  Perhaps if players could scroll through all the lists, see which ones have openings, and when players last logged into the coalition, perhaps that would solve the problem.

    A dead coalition is going to sink to the bottom of the ranks, so new players should be able to catch on pretty quickly that if they don't want to join a dead coalition, to seek a higher ranking coalition.  This should be an intrinsic pursuit, as you don't play this game to intentionally have a low score lol.
    I adding making the leaderboard scrollable -- however it still creates the problem of having to pick and choose. Also I know for a fact there are several top 100 alltime coalitions that are completely abandoned. So should a player hop into one of those and have to spend 2 weeks playing to figure out no one else is there? Or should active coalitions at rank 105 not get top 100 designation because completely dead teams are cluttering up the leader board?

  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    I see what you're saying in that there's a lot of clutter (aka the rubble of dead coalitions scattered across the land) but I'm not sure if that qualifies as a broken system.

    If I was a new player, not trying to start my own coalition, and looking to join another...I would try to find the highest level coalition that has an open spot.  Perhaps if players could scroll through all the lists, see which ones have openings, and when players last logged into the coalition, perhaps that would solve the problem.

    A dead coalition is going to sink to the bottom of the ranks, so new players should be able to catch on pretty quickly that if they don't want to join a dead coalition, to seek a higher ranking coalition.  This should be an intrinsic pursuit, as you don't play this game to intentionally have a low score lol.
    I adding making the leaderboard scrollable -- however it still creates the problem of having to pick and choose. Also I know for a fact there are several top 100 alltime coalitions that are completely abandoned. So should a player hop into one of those and have to spend 2 weeks playing to figure out no one else is there? Or should active coalitions at rank 105 not get top 100 designation because completely dead teams are cluttering up the leader board?

    Again though, I don't think that'll be an issue for long.  An inactive coalition will not be increasing its score, while all the active coalitions will be catching up and surpassing it.  It'll sink to the bottom and be forgotten with all the other dead coalitions.

    An inactive coalition won't be participating in events, so a rank 105 not being in the top 100 would only lose out on bragging rights, and only temporarily.

    Going beyond that though, purging would just be a temporary solution.  Players can still make and abandon coalitions.  We would, eventually, get back to where we are here.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    I see what you're saying in that there's a lot of clutter (aka the rubble of dead coalitions scattered across the land) but I'm not sure if that qualifies as a broken system.

    If I was a new player, not trying to start my own coalition, and looking to join another...I would try to find the highest level coalition that has an open spot.  Perhaps if players could scroll through all the lists, see which ones have openings, and when players last logged into the coalition, perhaps that would solve the problem.

    A dead coalition is going to sink to the bottom of the ranks, so new players should be able to catch on pretty quickly that if they don't want to join a dead coalition, to seek a higher ranking coalition.  This should be an intrinsic pursuit, as you don't play this game to intentionally have a low score lol.
    I adding making the leaderboard scrollable -- however it still creates the problem of having to pick and choose. Also I know for a fact there are several top 100 alltime coalitions that are completely abandoned. So should a player hop into one of those and have to spend 2 weeks playing to figure out no one else is there? Or should active coalitions at rank 105 not get top 100 designation because completely dead teams are cluttering up the leader board?

    Again though, I don't think that'll be an issue for long.  An inactive coalition will not be increasing its score, while all the active coalitions will be catching up and surpassing it.  It'll sink to the bottom and be forgotten with all the other dead coalitions.

    An inactive coalition won't be participating in events, so a rank 105 not being in the top 100 would only lose out on bragging rights, and only temporarily.

    Going beyond that though, purging would just be a temporary solution.  Players can still make and abandon coalitions.  We would, eventually, get back to where we are here.
    If it were a regular thing, it wouldn’t be an issue. 
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    bken1234 said:
    I see what you're saying in that there's a lot of clutter (aka the rubble of dead coalitions scattered across the land) but I'm not sure if that qualifies as a broken system.

    If I was a new player, not trying to start my own coalition, and looking to join another...I would try to find the highest level coalition that has an open spot.  Perhaps if players could scroll through all the lists, see which ones have openings, and when players last logged into the coalition, perhaps that would solve the problem.

    A dead coalition is going to sink to the bottom of the ranks, so new players should be able to catch on pretty quickly that if they don't want to join a dead coalition, to seek a higher ranking coalition.  This should be an intrinsic pursuit, as you don't play this game to intentionally have a low score lol.
    I adding making the leaderboard scrollable -- however it still creates the problem of having to pick and choose. Also I know for a fact there are several top 100 alltime coalitions that are completely abandoned. So should a player hop into one of those and have to spend 2 weeks playing to figure out no one else is there? Or should active coalitions at rank 105 not get top 100 designation because completely dead teams are cluttering up the leader board?

    Again though, I don't think that'll be an issue for long.  An inactive coalition will not be increasing its score, while all the active coalitions will be catching up and surpassing it.  It'll sink to the bottom and be forgotten with all the other dead coalitions.

    An inactive coalition won't be participating in events, so a rank 105 not being in the top 100 would only lose out on bragging rights, and only temporarily.

    Going beyond that though, purging would just be a temporary solution.  Players can still make and abandon coalitions.  We would, eventually, get back to where we are here.
    If it were a regular thing, it wouldn’t be an issue. 
    It's a great ideal, but I considering we're struggling to get the developers to make any significant changes to improve the game, I'm not sure how practical it would be to expect them to commit to regular purges.

    I mean, they aren't even committing to a regular Q&A ;)
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    What if there was an option for coalition leaders to mark the coalition as "recruiting"? Only those coalitions who have it activated get shown in the list. The status reverts every week, but can immediately be re-enabled by the leader (who also gets a notification whenever the status gets set back). This way, 99% of the dead coalitions won't show up anymore without harming fresh groups.
    This is a really cool idea! 
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,433 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2018
    bken1234 said:
    I see what you're saying in that there's a lot of clutter (aka the rubble of dead coalitions scattered across the land) but I'm not sure if that qualifies as a broken system.

    If I was a new player, not trying to start my own coalition, and looking to join another...I would try to find the highest level coalition that has an open spot.  Perhaps if players could scroll through all the lists, see which ones have openings, and when players last logged into the coalition, perhaps that would solve the problem.

    A dead coalition is going to sink to the bottom of the ranks, so new players should be able to catch on pretty quickly that if they don't want to join a dead coalition, to seek a higher ranking coalition.  This should be an intrinsic pursuit, as you don't play this game to intentionally have a low score lol.
    I adding making the leaderboard scrollable -- however it still creates the problem of having to pick and choose. Also I know for a fact there are several top 100 alltime coalitions that are completely abandoned. So should a player hop into one of those and have to spend 2 weeks playing to figure out no one else is there? Or should active coalitions at rank 105 not get top 100 designation because completely dead teams are cluttering up the leader board?

    Again though, I don't think that'll be an issue for long.  An inactive coalition will not be increasing its score, while all the active coalitions will be catching up and surpassing it.  It'll sink to the bottom and be forgotten with all the other dead coalitions.

    An inactive coalition won't be participating in events, so a rank 105 not being in the top 100 would only lose out on bragging rights, and only temporarily.

    Going beyond that though, purging would just be a temporary solution.  Players can still make and abandon coalitions.  We would, eventually, get back to where we are here.
    I guess a better question is this. If you've a room full of clutter... do you simply keep adding to it and call it controlled chaos because you know how to look for something within it? Is it okay for someone who has no clue of the disorganized manner in which everything is placed and technically being reallocated (as various new coalitions die off or fresher ones gain rank) to find what they are looking for, just because it's better to leave alone? I personally don't think that is a good idea

    The whole visual about tagging an active coalition without any actual narrowing perimeters is similar to painting a few leaves pink in a huge pile of leaves. In order to find them you've got to put in a little effort to toss about some unpainted leaves ( the dead coalitions) in order to find the live ones. And then hope they have room. 

    Any game needs a maintenance clearing. In Mobsters the Devs put out a notice over 30 days. You saw it when you logged in, you saw it randomly when you switched between screens. The message simply stated that clan leaders were required to turn on the new "active" button. Which lasted 3 months. In which it needed to be reactivated sometime during the 4th month. We had been told to contact them if say a leader quit without transferring power to avoid the clan from being removed from the system in the 5th month. It worked beautifully and allowed new players to see only active clans upon starting the game. 

    Mtgpq needs a bit of clean up. Personally I expected something like this to have happened ages ago. As long as D3 and okatagon implement safety protocols that buy players some time to ensure their coalition is still alive and well... the whole process has my blessing.