play threshold for meaningful roster progress in 5* tier

BlackWidower

Although hoarding does make sense, it just doesn't do for me. What got me addicted to the game in the first place was rewards and covers. It's a nice spike of dopamine for the brain.

Hoarding is like drinking decaffeinated coffee and alcohol-free lager for six weeks or whatever, then suddenly one day you go on a MASSIVE binge, and then just start cramming everything you possibly can into your face.... for 15 minutes (then, rinse, repeat). It's like some sort of weird reverse Mardi Gras.

Feeling the burnout and it's only day 1012. 
Rewards  just don't feel the same anymore.  You can only pull so many 4* Elektra covers before you start to pray for a drive by shooting.

Straycat

I only do max progression in pve, and the 10 pack in pvp. I thought I was earning enough to keep up with the 5* releases, but its slowed down after AA. I've found that where my 3*s are really affected my 5* progress. I managed to cover Daredevil thru Archangel, and during that time I hit my first (I think) max champ 3*. Now I have 20+ and even some dupes champed.  But since the early champ levels are not as rewarding, my 5*s are also slowing down.

But with 4* dilution, I imagine there'll be a point when a large number of my 4*s are giving better rewards that let me catch up with the 5* releases.

entrailbucket

This sounds like it's not being serious, but it is 100% serious: if you don't play very much anymore, and don't spend any money at all, why should anyone care that you're thinking about quitting because you can't progress?  What exactly will they lose if you walk away?

The vast, vast majority of players in this game do not have even one champion 5*.  Players who have a champion 5* are in the top 1% of the playerbase.  I don't understand why free-to-play casual players think they're somehow entitled to stay in the top 1% of players without consistent play or spending.  The game is designed to make that impossible, otherwise it wouldn't make any money.  If you go to a gas station and ask to use their bathroom, they're going to make you buy a pack of gum or something first. They're running a business, just like the MPQ devs are.

Warbringa

Same here, I only have 1 5* champ, Gambit but I could have champed DD and Thor long ago (I covered them all at the same time roughly- got really lucky on a mini horde RNG as I was not a big spender). I decided not to for various reasons, one being that I wanted to have more than 3 5* characters to choose from when I did fully go into the 5* tier.  Well, nearly 6 months later, I still don't have any other 5* at 13 covers.  I had been hoping to get JJ there but she is only at 8 covers and the next closest is Cap IW at 11.  I have been working on Black Bolt forever and he is at 10 still.  OML has been at 11 forever as well.  

I play PvE (6 clears) and DDQ daily and spend probably 60-90 minutes a day doing so depending on SCL and other events.  I sometimes dabble in PvP but not much.  I don't want to play the game more since it is already a big time sink and I won't throw anymore money at the game after the terrible Gambit nerf.  

For me I see MPQ as a sinking ship.  I hold on to the mast hoping d3 sends some lifeboats but that watery grave is sure getting closer fast.

Unknown

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Daredevil217

I know it won't happen but what if they drop the classic price to 15 CP?  Between cover save and the lower costs people could meaningfully progress on their 8-11 covered character languishing in Classics while the whales continue to pay a premium for the newest shinies.

entrailbucket

Vhailorx_2 said:

(1) I never said I was f2p. I haven't spent in a while, but that's not exactly the same thing.
(2) I never said I want to keep pace with the top players.  In fact I specifically said that was NOT what i wanted in multiple posts.  So please stop arguing with that particular straw man.
(3) The freemium model needs whales and f2p players.  If my 455 speedbump roster isn't playing the game, then who are the uberwhales supposed to curb-stomp with their 550s?  4* rosters don't pose enough of a challenge, and fighting against the same 6 uberwhales in every single match gets old real fast. 
(4) Stop using the word "entitled"!  No one is claiming that MPQ is a human right for tinykitty's sake.  This is a discussion about the correct level of rewards in MPQ to get and keep players invested in the game.  That is important, and it's not about whining or getting something people haven't "earned.".  And if you don't think that, then you are both foolish, and clearly not paying attention to all the things Demi does constantly to adjust rewards levels for that exact purpose!

Whether you spent before is not relevant.  If I bought a pack of gum at the gas station 2 years ago, they're not going to let me use their bathroom today.

If what you want is to continue to grow your 5* roster, then you are absolutely asking to keep pace with the top players.  No one besides the very top percentage of players is experiencing meaningful progression in 5* land.

The freemium model needs whales, minimal spenders, and f2p players.  The problem is that there are an awful lot of f2p players, and that population is growing daily.  So although the game needs f2p players in general, there's not a whole lot of need for one specific f2p player.  In effect, f2p/low-spend type players are fungible, and they're a renewable resource.

Again: if what you're asking for is meaningful progression in the 5* tier, without either playing a lot or spending anything, you're asking to keep pace with the very best players in the game.  Wanting to do that with casual play and no spend is indeed asking for something that you did not earn, at least in the game's current economy. 

If the game's economy is somehow changed to allow this, then what advantage does a player who plays hard or spends hard have?  What incentive is there for anyone to do those things?

sirwookieechris

Daredevil217 said:

I know it won't happen but what if they drop the classic price to 15 CP?  Between cover save and the lower costs people could meaningfully progress on their 8-11 covered character languishing in Classics while the whales continue to pay a premium for the newest shinies.

Wasn’t there talk about how, with the loss of cover exchange, that classics might be a better investment now? If they lowered classics even more, it would really devalue LL.

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BoyWonder1914

entrailbucket said:

Whether you spent before is not relevant.  If I bought a pack of gum at the gas station 2 years ago, they're not going to let me use their bathroom today.

Not that this is all I've been paying attention to, but you've said this twice now and it's irking me. I've wandered into several gas stations while on long road trips and been able to use the bathroom without a purchase. Not an issue at my local one either. It's a bathroom. 

jackstar0

Rather than 6* tier, I wonder if we might see CL10 with actual higher CP rewards and more Legendary tokens given out.

I have repeatedly called for the Classics to be broken into groups of 4-6 so that you can target those groups with your resources.

I know I'm not anxious to spend my next hoard on LLs except to get the newest 5* to handle essentials, which might lead me to hoard and then do a massive Classic's dump just to get more covers for my CP.

Since champing the last 5* I wanted (JJ), I'm not sure what the game is offering me. Hopefully something fun on the horizon will come along... but right now... not super appealing.

BlackWidower

BoyWonder1914 said:

entrailbucket said:

Whether you spent before is not relevant.  If I bought a pack of gum at the gas station 2 years ago, they're not going to let me use their bathroom today.

Not that this is all I've been paying attention to, but you've said this twice now and it's irking me. I've wandered into several gas stations while on long road trips and been able to use the bathroom without a purchase. Not an issue at my local one either. It's a bathroom. 

I was just going to say this. The only prerequisite to using the washroom at a gas station is (at the very most), asking the cashier for the washroom key. 

This is the entire reason why you feel like you need to take a Silkwood shower after exiting.

Spudgutter

Vhailorx_2 said:

entrailbucket said:

Whether you spent before is not relevant.  If I bought a pack of gum at the gas station 2 years ago, they're not going to let me use their bathroom today.

If what you want is to continue to grow your 5* roster, then you are absolutely asking to keep pace with the top players.  No one besides the very top percentage of players is experiencing meaningful progression in 5* land.

The freemium model needs whales, minimal spenders, and f2p players.  The problem is that there are an awful lot of f2p players, and that population is growing daily.  So although the game needs f2p players in general, there's not a whole lot of need for one specific f2p player.  In effect, f2p/low-spend type players are fungible, and they're a renewable resource.

Again: if what you're asking for is meaningful progression in the 5* tier, without either playing a lot or spending anything, you're asking to keep pace with the very best players in the game.  Wanting to do that with casual play and no spend is indeed asking for something that you did not earn, at least in the game's current economy. 

If the game's economy is somehow changed to allow this, then what advantage does a player who plays hard or spends hard have?  What incentive is there for anyone to do those things?

I feel bad repeating myself over and over again, but you don't seem to be reading my posts. 

(1) prior spending isn't terribly relevant, except insofar as it shows that i might be induced to spend again under the right circumstances.  Also, you were the one who said you were tired f2p players doing X.  I felt that it was worth pointing out that I am neither a f2p player, nor am I actually doing X.

(2) this is a quotation from the original post.  How can you read that and then say that I am asking to keep pace with the top end players?

I don't really know if this is a problem.  If someone like me was able to make significant roster progress at my play levels, then true grinders would be making duplicate 550s.  On the other hand, I have generally enjoyed mpq for years but basically feel like I am being squeezed out the game by the unyielding play requirements necessary to actually change my play experience. 

(3) There are tons of f2p players, as you say.  There are NOT tons of f2p players that have deep enough rosters to provide meaningful opposition to big whales in PVP or to fill out CL9 PVE brackets.  The game experience would be substantially worse the uberwhales if players like me walk away from the game.  Does that make us more important than the uberwhales? absolutely not.  Does it mean that Demi should perhaps spend some time figuring out how to keep us playing and, maybe, spending some more cash on the game?  I think so, but no doubt reasonable minds could differ.

(4) What if my current level of play let me get every new 5* released to somewhere in the 10-16 cover range before they leave the LT pool, rather than the current 4-10 that I am currently getting?  The top tier players are champing everyone up to level 470+ during the same interval, so I would clearly not be keeping pace.  But I would be getting a shiny new toy to play with every once in a while, and that would go a long way towards keeping me invested.

Not to be too argumentative, but then why post at all?  Your op boiled down wonderfully to your last sentence "Am I alone in feeling this way? Is there any possible solution that demi could implement?"

The path to better rewards have been laid out for you, literally for years: play more or spend more.  

You can ask for more rewards, sure.  And entrail is using a really bad analogy with the gas station thing.  But the point is still the same.  You want more for less.  Nothing wrong with it, but at least own it.

And before you redirect me to your first post, re-read point number 4 in the post above.  Instead of 4-10 LT's for your play level, you want 10-16.  You want that to keep you invested.  But you don't want to spend anything, and you don't want to play more.  

entrailbucket

BoyWonder1914 said:

entrailbucket said:

Whether you spent before is not relevant.  If I bought a pack of gum at the gas station 2 years ago, they're not going to let me use their bathroom today.

Not that this is all I've been paying attention to, but you've said this twice now and it's irking me. I've wandered into several gas stations while on long road trips and been able to use the bathroom without a purchase. Not an issue at my local one either. It's a bathroom. 

I had no idea!  It's been a long time since I've used a gas station bathroom.  I guess I need a new metaphor.

Kishida

jackstar0 said:

Rather than 6* tier, I wonder if we might see CL10 with actual higher CP rewards and more Legendary tokens given out.

If CL10 opens up and has 5* covers in progression, not placement, it would probably have an effect close to what people desire. So, you can be sure that D3 will make them placement rewards.

entrailbucket

Vhailorx_2 said:

(1) prior spending isn't terribly relevant, except insofar as it shows that i might be induced to spend again under the right circumstances.  Also, you were the one who said you were tired f2p players doing X.  I felt that it was worth pointing out that I am neither a f2p player, nor am I actually doing X.

(2) this is a quotation from the original post.  How can you read that and then say that I am asking to keep pace with the top end players?

I don't really know if this is a problem.  If someone like me was able to make significant roster progress at my play levels, then true grinders would be making duplicate 550s.  On the other hand, I have generally enjoyed mpq for years but basically feel like I am being squeezed out the game by the unyielding play requirements necessary to actually change my play experience. 

(3) There are tons of f2p players, as you say.  There are NOT tons of f2p players that have deep enough rosters to provide meaningful opposition to big whales in PVP or to fill out CL9 PVE brackets.  The game experience would be substantially worse the uberwhales if players like me walk away from the game.  Does that make us more important than the uberwhales? absolutely not.  Does it mean that Demi should perhaps spend some time figuring out how to keep us playing and, maybe, spending some more cash on the game?  I think so, but no doubt reasonable minds could differ.

(4) What if my current level of play let me get every new 5* released to somewhere in the 10-16 cover range before they leave the LT pool, rather than the current 4-10 that I am currently getting?  The top tier players are champing everyone up to level 470+ during the same interval, so I would clearly not be keeping pace.  But I would be getting a shiny new toy to play with every once in a while, and that would go a long way towards keeping me invested.

I am reading your posts, but I don't think you understand what you're implying here.  The undeniable fact is that your roster places you in the top 1% of the overall player pool, based on what you've said you already have.  If you're getting 4-10 covers of new 5* before they leave Latest, that means you're still in that range.  Most players who play the amount that you do and spend nothing are getting 1-2 covers, and maybe none at all. 

You're looking up at the top .01% of players, guys with astronomical lifetime spend, and who are still spending enormous amounts, and using them as your baseline.  I play a lot, and spend too, and I'm not getting new 5* anywhere near 470 before they leave.  I might get them to 450 or 451, and sometimes not that far.  Instead of looking up at the megawhales, you should be looking at all the players below you (and to repeat, that is 99% of all MPQ players) who will probably never catch up to you.

It is purposely difficult in this game to stay at the top.  What you're asking for is a way for you to stay in the top 1% forever, despite no longer doing the things that got you there in the first place, and that is probably not going to happen.

Asmodaeus

I think this thread is an important one as it speaks to the larger issues looming for the sustainability of the game long term. I'm solidly in the 4* tier (46 champed) and have a few 5's fully covered with no intention of champing them any time soon. A big part of that was Gambits dominance and throwing off PVP MMR (making it even more of a grind for res now that that seems to be coming to an end, a lot of the issues raised in this thread are becoming clearer to me as real threats to progressing/enjoying this game. I'm cautiously optimistic that they'll be adding more 5* feeders but with the return to FULL 4* dilution, even that has been slowed to a crawl. 

Pongie

With feeders to 5 stars now, if you can get latest to 6-7 covers before they rotate into classics, that’s enough to cover them once they get a feeder (provided the distribution is good). 

spectator

It’s probably harder to get a feeder to 360 than it is to get 13 covers for a 5 star in latest

Asmodaeus

spectator said:

It’s probably harder to get a feeder to 360 than it is to get 13 covers for a 5 star in latest

Definitely. Ive been shooting for around 10 covers for each latest before they leave for just such a reason. Now it'd be a different story if they had multiple feeders for each 5 but I don't see that happening any time soon