play threshold for meaningful roster progress in 5* tier

HoundofShadow

To summarise: more rewards (probably LT or CP or 5* covers as progression rewards) at the same level of gameplay?

Jarvind

Same here. The only way to progress now is to hoard thousands of CP, so you're looking at actual progress in chunks every 6 months or so. It's a pretty bleak outlook, and one that could have been solved by Supports not being stupid and pointless.

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wymtime

Vhailorx_2 said:

Daredevil217 said:

With 5* being the end game/unicorns that the developers wanted them to be, shouldn’t they be hard to obtain? Should you be able to play casually, not spend, and still champ them? Honest question. Once I sell off some Gambit covers, I’ll have only 4 max-covered 5s. And I’ve been playing 1300+ days. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that if you want to play casually you aren’t going to get the very best characters in the game. They need to give incentive to grind and spend.  It’s ultimately what got you the 5* you do have (well, that and hoarding). And saying “I’m burnt out and don’t want to do it” is fine, but I also wouldn’t expect to get the rewards either.

Could always join me in the 4* tier. Plenty of room for casuals and it has much more variety. Though with dilution being what it is, you stand to cover 5s at a much faster rate. So scratch that. 

That is sort of glossing over the discussion I am trying to have.  What level of reward is appropriate for someone in my position. The amount of play I described means I play ~7-10 hours per week minimum.  That is a great deal of time for any activity that can be described as "casual." 

I recognize that if my level of play resulted in covering each and every 5* as fast as they were released that the game would be in trouble because the hardcore players would have everyone at 550 with just free play.  So clearly that is a bad for everyone outcome because they game would have to shut down. 

On the other hand, I still enjoy the game; I still enjoy seeing my roster grow; but I want to invest less time into the game and accept that my roster will grow more slowly as a result.  The issue is how much slower.  Right now, my only realistic option for meaningful roster growth is to hoard for a very long time (6+ months or so should get me 200 or more pulls at a minimum) and hope that RNG favors me.  I am suggesting that there is perhaps a happy medium between a new 5* champ every 6 weeks or so and "hoard for 6 months and hope for the best!" 

This is basically just an artifact of the Classic/Latest model.  Dilution is so bad in classics that it is very hard to finish any character after they leave the latest pool.  And even LTs just got less efficient with saved covers.  We need some increase in 5* covering efficiency, so that more casual veterans could target and slowly build 5* champs; albeit at a slower-than-release rate.  As system like that might be enough to get me back to some modest spending (e.g. VIP or less for intercepts).

I would say this hoard CP and LT till you see a 5* you really want and then when they go into packs pull latest and latest only till you get them.  You need to get to the point where you have a min of 200 pulls when they go into packs with CP and LT.  With your play style if you start with 200 you should be able to generate another 100 pulls before they leave packs.  What you need to do is don’t go for 3 new shiny 5* you hoard and wait till you find one character you really want then pull.  It probably will take you 3 months to get up to 200 pulls I am guessing with you current play style and however many pulls you currently have now.  

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thedarkphoenix

@Brigby This is a growing group of players, maybe you can let the team know that we (myself included) feel like this. There needs to be some option for the 5 mid tier long time players....

Otherwise It's either going to result in playing less and or eventually stopping. All its going to take is one bad horde for some people.

LavaManLee

Add me to the list of disenchanted mid-tier 5* players.  When I saw Wasp come out, I thought "Great, one more 5* to add to the list of unobtainables without hard core grind".

The challenge to me is that a mobile game should be fun.  Having to play 1.5 - 2 hours a day to possibly progress is not, to me, fun.  It is work.  A chore.  When you were able to progress, the time spent seemed worth it.  Now?  Not so much.

Compare to Marvel Strike Force which requires, around 15-20 minutes of game play a day to progress.  Possibly less.  Yes, you can definitely play more but you don't feel like you HAVE to play more.  The progression is setup nicely and if you miss out on a character, it doesn't feel like the end of the world.

Anyways, yes.  As a mid-tier 5* player I am definitely getting bored with the game and feel progression is extremely difficult without hours of play a day.

shartattack

LavaManLee said:

Add me to the list of disenchanted mid-tier 5* players.  When I saw Wasp come out, I thought "Great, one more 5* to add to the list of unobtainables without hard core grind".

The challenge to me is that a mobile game should be fun.  Having to play 1.5 - 2 hours a day to possibly progress is not, to me, fun.  It is work.  A chore.  When you were able to progress, the time spent seemed worth it.  Now?  Not so much.

Compare to Marvel Strike Force which requires, around 15-20 minutes of game play a day to progress.  Possibly less.  Yes, you can definitely play more but you don't feel like you HAVE to play more.  The progression is setup nicely and if you miss out on a character, it doesn't feel like the end of the world.

Anyways, yes.  As a mid-tier 5* player I am definitely getting bored with the game and feel progression is extremely difficult without hours of play a day.

I would tend to disagree with your msf assessment.  It is easy to play 15-20 minutes and progress in MSF because it is new.   I play it as well, but remember that it is still a new game.  The equivalent of 5* play in msf requires more than 2 hours a day of grinding blitz (and spending real money on cores) to place high enough to get top level characters.  MPQ is much more friendly to f2p/low $ players.

bluewolf

The fact that you can, through intense play, cover and champ 5's with 0 to minimal spending is probably the best you can hope for.  Honestly, I'm not sure I'd like to pull back a little and just fall behind; just stopping altogether seems like a better option to me.

Even at the lower tiers, you need to play a lot to make rapid progress and begin to keep up with the release schedule.  A new player starting today may jump up to the 4 tier pretty quickly and then spend a looooong time there.  A more relaxed play approach would either fall farther and farther behind, or need to spend to catch up, if that was the goal.

Currently, the 4 tier requires 24,510,007 to champ them all.  That's a lot of days of play.

At some point, you've achieved all the game has to offer and you either enjoy the continued hamster wheel or step off.  Look at the super high PVP scores and ask, "Why?" and the answer basically is that those players set new goals for themselves beyond what the game offered, to find a reason to continue playing.

If your goals have been met, it seems like your options are pretty limited.

The best thing the devs have done recently is move to boss releases for new characters, whether that's all they do or just most of the time.  It really reduces play time needs for a good part of the events.

smkspy

I'll add this to counter balance the OP's play status. Not at all retired. Play nearly every PVE scl 9 (BP event usually drop to 8) hitting all nodes to the max. Usually fall top 50 every event. Only aspect I don't play to completion is PvP where I stop and shield at 900 usually falling top 20 each event. I have zero waste so there is no reason for me to hoard.

Other than spending thousand of dollars, what valid reason is there that I cant legitimately play and earn 5s and earn 4s champ rates at a faster spend. 

At this point, the message I get is that unless I'm a big spender, this company doesn't value me as a customer at all. Not a f2p player either, I've contributed a good amount of my hard-earned money, but no more as it is apparent that they do not value anyone but their whales.

smkspy

HoundofShadow said:

To summarise: more rewards (probably LT or CP or 5* covers as progression rewards) at the same level of gameplay?

To summarize, no. We're not asking for better rewards "at the same level" of play, we're asking for better at a level of play that matches where we are in the game.

SCL where easy nodes are equivalent to SCL 9 hard nodes and hard nodes at the levels of SCL 5 star nodes. For an example.

Don't know why I bother though, you'll find someway to twist our words and call us whiners or flamers or whatever.

Treras

It boils down to time and money to keep covering a 5star. Decrease one and you will need to increase the other.

sirwookieechris

Psychologically, isn't "the chase" better for player retention? It just sounds like some of you are burnt out and need to take a break, but do you honestly believe you'd still be playing the game if you had every hero champed and only were playing for champ levels?

smkspy

sirwookieechris said:

Psychologically, isn't "the chase" better for player retention? It just sounds like some of you are burnt out and need to take a break, but do you honestly believe you'd still be playing the game if you had every hero champed and only were playing for champ levels?

What chase? There is no chase for fives stars other than rng. And those few we do have champed receive zero champ rewards... psychologically, this is exactly what leads to burnout.

Jexman

Supports could help if they made a meaningful difference for 5 star characters. Ooh, an extra 50 damage per match! 

sirwookieechris

smkspy said:

sirwookieechris said:

Psychologically, isn't "the chase" better for player retention? It just sounds like some of you are burnt out and need to take a break, but do you honestly believe you'd still be playing the game if you had every hero champed and only were playing for champ levels?

What chase? There is no chase for fives stars other than rng. And those few we do have champed receive zero champ rewards... psychologically, this is exactly what leads to burnout.

You realize during this past iteration of vaulting you had a better chance of getting a specific 5* character in Latest than a 4*, right?

(1/7)*(1/3) = 5%
(6/7)*(1/12)*(1/2) = 4%

Now with no more latest bonus for 4*, is is even easier to cover a LL 5* compared to a new 4*. I feel bad for new players entering the 4* tier who will need to invest heavily in roster slots and are going to have a bunch of 0/2/1 characters they can't use.

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ZeroKarma

I’m feeling the same problem that the OP has. I play a LOT. I’m consistently top 5 in PvE cl9 and PvP cl7 and I haven’t missed prog in an event for as long as I can remember. Im not complaining. I’ve had a great alliance and a lot of fun races in PvE.

My 5* tier is maxing out just shy of level 475. I have 2 characters higher than that but the rest have sort of bunched up. Champ rewards for Thor or Black Widow will get them over the mark, but I can’t reasonably expect to get anyone higher than that ever.

So what do I do? Can I actually progress in any meaningful way by getting more 5* at the same level? I cant play more and win more prizes, so I’m stuck now. 

People joke about 6*, but that is the only next step for me and many more. Whether you top out at 460, 480 or even 550, once you get there you are basically stuck unless you spend money. And when I say “spend money” I mean spend a second mortgage which is unreasonable for most.

The common answer here is hoarding as well. I get it. I hoarded for 200 pulls. Terrible. Awful. Boring. Don’t want to do it ever again, thanks. If you want to be miserable for a year so you can progress in this game, you have a lot more patience than I do. It also seems to me an unsustainable model for this game, because people in hoard mode don’t spend any money. 

ThaRoadWarrior

multiple 4* feeders for the same 5* might help here, that way an even progression in that tier will get funneled into more regular paced growth at the 5* tier. Not super fast, but it's at least a reason to spend in classics

Spudgutter

smkspy said:

HoundofShadow said:

To summarise: more rewards (probably LT or CP or 5* covers as progression rewards) at the same level of gameplay?

To summarize, no. We're not asking for better rewards "at the same level" of play, we're asking for better at a level of play that matches where we are in the game.

SCL where easy nodes are equivalent to SCL 9 hard nodes and hard nodes at the levels of SCL 5 star nodes. For an example.

Don't know why I bother though, you'll find someway to twist our words and call us whiners or flamers or whatever.

Don't feed the trolls.  I stopped replying to certain people a few weeks back. Even discovered the ability to mute someone