Update to Jubilee (Classic)'s Champion Rewards (6/19/18)

Ezrius

fmftint said:

Jubilee to Phoenix




Makes perfect sense

Well, obviously it was either going to be Jubliee or Nightcrawler, because those are the only two X-Men without 3*s to feed them.  Even though we have three X-Men with multiple feeders, because multiple feeders are still a thing...

The rockett

ThaRoadWarrior said:

The rockett said:

Jubliee -> Jean Grey:  Um........yea.  No Cyc, No JG, just a new release that reallly doesn’t make sense with they way this was done so far. 

I don't man, this seems like exactly the same degree of connection as Drax -> 5* Lord over 4* Lord -> 5* Lord. It's still X-Person -> X-Person, it's not like they had Flaptain give her out.

Yes your right.  Still X men but that is a thin connection. Here are all the X-men in the game. 

Nightcralwer
Ice Man 
X Force Wolverine  
Professor X 
X-23
Rogue
X Force Deadpool
Cyclops
Jean Grey/Teen
Jubliee

Out of all of those 10, only 1 is a feeder, XFW.  So out of these 9, Jubliee makes the most sense to be a feeder first?   It just seems like they wanted to limit the amount of covers given out for PHX since most Vets and maybe other K’s would have every single one of these a lot higher than Jubliee.  Add in the token dilution as well and that is why this is a curious move.   

Personally my lowest one of all X men is Nightcrawler at 324 and my Jubliee isn’t even champed yet.  

ThaRoadWarrior

The rockett said:

Yes your right.  Still X men but that is a thin connection. Here are all the X-men in the game. 

Nightcralwer
Ice Man 
X Force Wolverine  
Professor X 
X-23
Rogue
X Force Deadpool
Cyclops
Jean Grey/Teen
Jubliee

But really though, if you're not going to have Teen Jean -> Grown Jean, it may as well be any of them.

The rockett

ThaRoadWarrior said:

The rockett said:

Yes your right.  Still X men but that is a thin connection. Here are all the X-men in the game. 

Nightcralwer
Ice Man 
X Force Wolverine  
Professor X 
X-23
Rogue
X Force Deadpool
Cyclops
Jean Grey/Teen
Jubliee

But really though, if you're not going to have Teen Jean -> Grown Jean, it may as well be any of them.

I agree.  Like i said it just seems a cheap move to limit the number of covers sent out for PHX at one time with a move like this.  

DarthDeVo

HoundofShadow said:

I don't remember seeing the devs mentioning that
"the point of feeders to have some sort of connection between the two characters".

I do remember that they said they are updating some of the 4* champion rewards to be replaced with 5* covers. The "logical connection", I believe, is assumed by the players themselves.

One of the last times they made an adjustment to feeders at a lower tier was to change 2* Hawkeye from feeding IM40 to feeding Hawkguy, who hadn't been released when IM40 was assigned to 2* Hawkeye. If there isn't supposed to be any sort of connection between feeders, they probably wouldn't have bothered making that adjustment. 

As others have mentioned, most of them do have a connection of some kind in one medium or another, and have generally felt like a nice bit of fan service in that regard. Though there are a few that I just can't figure out for the life of me, chief among them 3* Thanos feeding... Spider-Woman? Initially it was Rulk, which was about just as tenuous, but at least they were both villains. 

And I seriously doubt anyone here is against the fact we got a new feeder, it's just disappointment and confusion over the selection, not the act of getting a new feeder itself. I know I won't be turning down my Phoenix covers when they come my way. 

And it's not even that there isn't some logic behind the choice (both X-Men), just that there are at least three better, more logical choices for Jean, and Jubilee makes more sense for Gambit than Phoenix.

bluewolf

Jubilee —> Phoenix

Jubilee was an X-man for years before she was even on a team with Jean Grey, who was tooling around in X-Factor when Jubilee was introduced.

Stop looking for a strong canon connection.  The devs just didn’t want to give out too many double dips this time.  Maybe that means they can push out more feeders if they do something like alternating brand new 4’s with classic 4’s.  They apparently have a “rewards budget” they follow, which makes sense from their perspective.

Let’s see if we get a feeder in 2 weeks, and then in 2 more weeks.  Maybe this will turn out good overall for players.

Also:  Phoenix is probably around #20 of all the 5’s in terms of actually improving your roster. So who really cares who feeds her?  (Apologies to anyone who has been waiting for covers, but she’s not very good and has the WORST in tier match damage.)

LifeofAgony

This is asinine.  Why isn’t 4* jean grey the feeder to 5* jean grey?  Please, anyone with a modicum of sense knows this is stupid.

The only logical answer is fewer freebies to give out as jubilee is much newer than JG.  There’s no other logical conclusion to be drawn.

#commonsense

fmftint

I don't think anyone is UPSET, emotional or angry,  over this feeder. Just another example of Demiurge going out of their way to avoid the obvious choice for the sole purpose of giving fewer covers.  This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone 

HoundofShadow

The previous time when the dev gave a logical connection, they got flamed. *Black Panther* 

It's pretty obvious, to me at least, is because some of the players can't double dip on the champion rewards (LT+5* cover). 

As long as the feeder is an unpopular or a new 4* or players can't double dip, the devs will get flamed.

ThaRoadWarrior

Did nobody care this much about Drax-> 5* Lord because nobody really cares that much about Star Lord and/or Drax? 

Treras

As long as their choices are dubious they deserve every bit of negative feedback. The playerbase is still engaged enough to respond. When we stop posting....

LifeofAgony

The devs should just apply a simple standard - if a toon has a counter part in the tier below, that should be their feeder.  2* Hawkeye went from giving im40 covers to Hawkguy because, you know, same guy.  3gams should feed 4gams.  3SL > 4SL > 5SL.  I know it can get trickier with so many “Spider-Man” and “captain America” running around but for the ones with only one choice, ie 4* teen jean grey feeding 5* Phoenix jean grey, it really shouldn’t be this hard.

DarthDeVo

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Did nobody care this much about Drax-> 5* Lord because nobody really cares that much about Star Lord and/or Drax? 

No, I seem to remember plenty of raised eyebrows over that one, that they chose Drax instead of St4r-Lord. But, I think the fact that they're equally vintage and that Drax is a Guardian (so there's at least some connection) resulted in just more straight up confusion than anything. 

I think with this it's the combination of the fact that there are more logical feeder choices for Phoenix and Jubilee fits better with Gambit, along with the newer 4* being chosen rather than a Classic, that has people sounding off. 

HoundofShadow

Whether X character is more logical than Y or Z character is subjective. Afterall, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

ZeroKarma

The rockett said:

I know somebody has this info, but we we have a list of all the 4* and when they were released?  I am curious on how many older 4* are feeders compared to newer 4*.  I know XFW is a feeder for OML, but the other older ones, IW/Fury/HB/Teen Jean/Cyc/Thora are not feeders yet. After playing for this long I cannot remember the order of who got released when.  

 It is a clear sign of pushing new chars even if they don’t make sense in the way some of us would think about it in the comic books or MCU.  

I think it would be a clearer sign if those characters were actually easily available in comparison to their "classic" brethren. If you really WANTED Jubilee, how would you go about doing so? BH her and start buying 40-packs on the off chance you could get a couple? 

Is there a 3* feeder for the 4* that feeds this 5*? Wouldn't that also make sense?

@HoundofShadow   @mega ghost It's not amazing. This is an obvious one. There's plenty of reasons to be annoyed about this. 

Point out the positive side of introducing a 4* feeder that most people will be lucky to even get a single 5* cover out of? A 4* feeder who was recently introduced and is now in a world without vaulting and who doesn't even have a feeder herself? 

What I see is a transparent attempt to pretend that we're getting a special resource or prize, when in actuality this won't even cause a blip on most people's radars. That was also the argument for 4* BP into 5* BP, but at least that had flavor on it's side. 

bluewolf

I fully expect the new 4BW to be a feeder for 5BW. And I won’t complain or be upset because it’s a strong canon connection. Others will feel different.

The question you could ask before this was, “Who should this 4 feed?” and it made sense.  Drax should feed 5SL (or Thanos, but he was taken).  The rest have been laid out very nicely above. 

Jubilee should feed OML, but doesn’t so they could have a new feeder and not double up (yet).  So they went against that strong connection idea for reasons of their own.  The same reason that 3nos feeds Spider-Woman, I guess.  

zodiac339

ThaRoadWarrior said:

In 6 months time, this will just another "Oh, Ragnarok gives out X23? Huh." or "Sentry gives... Moon Knight...I guess whatever." I think people react negatively because it doesn't help them personally, right now, in any particular way. But eventually all these changes just become the lay of the land, especially for new players or players below the threshold where it matters. 

Ragnarok to X-23 is fine (clones, lab created to be weapons, and Rags had no other good 4* to feed). Sentry to Moon Knight also fine (mental illness and similar lack of good 4* to feed). The dumb one was Thor does not feed Thor. So the 3* to 4* logic already had a precedent for an illogical feeder pair. 3 and 4 Thor were both in game when Champions were introduced, so they really should have been linked. Now it’s continuing going from 4 to 5.
 It’s not a matter of things not being personally helpful that’s frustrating. It’s that there’s an obvious choice that’s being ignored/inentionally avoided and players can’t see any good reason for it. We’re expecting that Thor will not lead to Thor (Gladiator), but instead to see MEHulk or Valkyrie feed due to movie connection. If they instead go “Hulkbuster feeds Thor Gladiator”, it would again upset people’s views on the way things should be working. Not knowing how things work, or seeing that there’s a way it should work and having that viewpoint upheaved is discomforting. Even someone with an equal level Teen Jean and Jubilee could be quite upset when the comfort of something logical and predictable is tossed aside and replaced with a tenuous and arbitrary connection.

mega ghost

ZeroKarma said:

The rockett said:

I know somebody has this info, but we we have a list of all the 4* and when they were released?  I am curious on how many older 4* are feeders compared to newer 4*.  I know XFW is a feeder for OML, but the other older ones, IW/Fury/HB/Teen Jean/Cyc/Thora are not feeders yet. After playing for this long I cannot remember the order of who got released when.  

 It is a clear sign of pushing new chars even if they don’t make sense in the way some of us would think about it in the comic books or MCU.  

I think it would be a clearer sign if those characters were actually easily available in comparison to their "classic" brethren. If you really WANTED Jubilee, how would you go about doing so? BH her and start buying 40-packs on the off chance you could get a couple? 

Is there a 3* feeder for the 4* that feeds this 5*? Wouldn't that also make sense?

@HoundofShadow   @mega ghost It's not amazing. This is an obvious one. There's plenty of reasons to be annoyed about this. 

Point out the positive side of introducing a 4* feeder that most people will be lucky to even get a single 5* cover out of? A 4* feeder who was recently introduced and is now in a world without vaulting and who doesn't even have a feeder herself? 

What I see is a transparent attempt to pretend that we're getting a special resource or prize, when in actuality this won't even cause a blip on most people's radars. That was also the argument for 4* BP into 5* BP, but at least that had flavor on it's side. 

If this was 4* Jean Grey feeding 5* Phoenix it still wouldn't be a blip on most people's radars.

The idea that having a 3* feed into a 4* that feeds into a 5* as a method of accruing 5* covers is absurd anyway, it's not as if anyone is cycling through these champ rewards at a rate that could ever make it meaningful. Most players will never even get all of the 4* covers from a single 3* champ before they stop playing, and that's only three 4* covers. Past the 2* into 3* feeding, this was never a significant system one could count on, it's just a nice little bonus that on occasion can get you one or two more covers you need to get a character to 13. 

Also, no one is pretending this is a special resource or prize, it's a simple announcement thread about a very small update to a single character's champ rewards that everyone is making a big deal out of. Had the announcement been 4* Jean Grey into 5* Phoenix, the vitriol would have been the same but instead the comments would be "Who cares, Phoenix is outdated in the new meta, if it's not feeding Gambit then it doesn't matter" and "Oh great, now I have to champ a 5* that I can't even compete with," etc.

mega ghost

ZeroKarma said:

@HoundofShadow   @mega ghost It's not amazing. This is an obvious one. There's plenty of reasons to be annoyed about this. 

Point out the positive side of introducing a 4* feeder that most people will be lucky to even get a single 5* cover out of? A 4* feeder who was recently introduced and is now in a world without vaulting and who doesn't even have a feeder herself? 

And I did do that:

mega ghost said:

Basepuzzler said:

mega ghost said:

I'm always amazed by how, no matter the news, people will find a reason as to why it's wrong and bad.

It was a given that eventually there would be another feeder so the announcement in itself means nothing.  This one came later than the previous schedule would indicate and it was inexplicably for a character that the average player will have at lower levels than the more logical options.  There’s literally nothing positive about this relative to reasonable expectations.

They always announce updates like this, and it gives people some time to make decisions with their roster. How else should they have done it, just made the change and not said anything?

Unless you've been playing for a while, and if you've just started playing this past year or so, it's more likely that you have a higher-leveled Jubilee than a 4* Jean Grey or Professor X, as she had the benefit of being in Latest and got that boost, whereas the other two never did and have been buried in Classics. I'm an older player myself who would have benefited from 4* Jean Grey or Professor X being the feeder, and I personally don't have Jubilee champed, but at the end of the day it's just a cover or two for another mediocre 5* I only have at a couple of covers anyway — I'm not going to notice the difference.

Positive notes:

-It's another 5* feeder. 
-They were behind schedule on announcing feeders, this marks a return to that process (which some people were concerned was halted indefinitely.)
-People with Jubilee at lvl. 280 or higher are happy, some of which are in this thread.

ZeroKarma

I still don't see the positive of this. The people that have higher levels of Jubilee than Professor X will likely have zero use for a Phoenix cover in that case. They definitely won't be able to cover her fully, and if they have that many covers of Jubilee they probably also have Latest Legends that are more worth focusing on. 

So, since you're a veteran and you have a champed Phoenix you could at least have gotten more champion rewards out of the deal. I am looking for the cross-demographic that benefits most from a real new 4* feeding a very old 5* in comparison to the other presented scenarios.