DOM Balancing Ideas
Comments
-
That maaay be a bit much. And I like the "cares about bonuses" aspect of it, it makes it quite unique to build around.khurram said:Conflux's effects should act on the colored gems present on the board instead of Mana bonuses.
Insta jump from meh! to woah!!!1 -
Well something needs to change aside from just the cost. It will be next to useless in most walkers.Mburn7 said:
That maaay be a bit much. And I like the "cares about bonuses" aspect of it, it makes it quite unique to build around.khurram said:Conflux's effects should act on the colored gems present on the board instead of Mana bonuses.
Insta jump from meh! to woah!!!0 -
I agree niche ≠ bad but its still underwhelming for an MP. Magus seems cool to me until he dies at the wrong time and you discard your chance at making a comeback. I still like Deed and have been using it more and more lately. I feel like the more I use it, the better I'm getting at managing it. It's pretty hilarious with multiple <5 power creatures on your side.
I always said Flash should give reach since that was the intent of the paper design, a surprise blocker. I finally used my copy of Flash last night and had some fun with death trigger creatures. It's better than I gave it credit for but still not incredible. I could see it comboing nicely with Rebirth tbh.0 -
I dunno about that either. Most new walkers have massive bonuses in 1-2 colors. Someone like Saheeli or Elspeth have solid spreads across multiple colors, and even the Zendikar walkers (Garruk, Sarkhan, Gid Z...ect) give you a little bit of everything. And there are a few cards that can increase your bonuses (mostly green, though), and, of course, Karn.khurram said:
Well something needs to change aside from just the cost. It will be next to useless in most walkers.Mburn7 said:
That maaay be a bit much. And I like the "cares about bonuses" aspect of it, it makes it quite unique to build around.khurram said:Conflux's effects should act on the colored gems present on the board instead of Mana bonuses.
Insta jump from meh! to woah!!!
It isn't overpowering or game-ending, but definitely could see a lot of play if it was more reasonable to cast.0 -
It should cost like 12. If you aren't jumping through hoops to make it more powerful, costing 12 doesn't mean much. If you already jumped through the hoops, costing 12 for a strong effect is your payoff.Mburn7 said:
I dunno about that either. Most new walkers have massive bonuses in 1-2 colors. Someone like Saheeli or Elspeth have solid spreads across multiple colors, and even the Zendikar walkers (Garruk, Sarkhan, Gid Z...ect) give you a little bit of everything. And there are a few cards that can increase your bonuses (mostly green, though), and, of course, Karn.khurram said:
Well something needs to change aside from just the cost. It will be next to useless in most walkers.Mburn7 said:
That maaay be a bit much. And I like the "cares about bonuses" aspect of it, it makes it quite unique to build around.khurram said:Conflux's effects should act on the colored gems present on the board instead of Mana bonuses.
Insta jump from meh! to woah!!!
It isn't overpowering or game-ending, but definitely could see a lot of play if it was more reasonable to cast.0 -
Come on, 12? Its a bit stronger than that. No way they drop it from 25 to 12 without nerfing the effects in some way. I'm trying to be reasonable here. 15-20 would see play, 12 would be nuts.ZW2007- said:
It should cost like 12. If you aren't jumping through hoops to make it more powerful, costing 12 doesn't mean much. If you already jumped through the hoops, costing 12 for a strong effect is your payoff.Mburn7 said:
I dunno about that either. Most new walkers have massive bonuses in 1-2 colors. Someone like Saheeli or Elspeth have solid spreads across multiple colors, and even the Zendikar walkers (Garruk, Sarkhan, Gid Z...ect) give you a little bit of everything. And there are a few cards that can increase your bonuses (mostly green, though), and, of course, Karn.khurram said:
Well something needs to change aside from just the cost. It will be next to useless in most walkers.Mburn7 said:
That maaay be a bit much. And I like the "cares about bonuses" aspect of it, it makes it quite unique to build around.khurram said:Conflux's effects should act on the colored gems present on the board instead of Mana bonuses.
Insta jump from meh! to woah!!!
It isn't overpowering or game-ending, but definitely could see a lot of play if it was more reasonable to cast.0 -
I don’t think the point of Conflux is to hit every possible effect since most walkers simply can’t do that. It’s more an interesting card that can be used by anyone and does different things for each walker.0
-
Elvish Piper should not go back to the hand1
-
In general, mythics and masterpieces´s DOM were nerf. Some rares and uncommons are even better. It makes no sense.0
-
Yes, we get it. Interesting design, does different things. Yeah, its the things that it does that are less than impressive. Care to break what it will do for each PW currently available?wereotter said:I don’t think the point of Conflux is to hit every possible effect since most walkers simply can’t do that. It’s more an interesting card that can be used by anyone and does different things for each walker.
I'll save everyone the trouble; nothing thats worth spending 25 Mana. Or even the 15-20 range.
0 -
Karn can realistically draw 4, make opponent discard 2, and gain 8 mana. Casting this off goggles or Jodah for that benefit seems pretty good to me. Gilded Lotus does start to make this look appealing for some walkers (Bolas, Kiora, Vraska), and the fact that it rounds up means if you can boost your mana bonus to 5, you get the pay-off of having 6 manakhurram said:
Yes, we get it. Interesting design, does different things. Yeah, its the things that it does that are less than impressive. Care to break what it will do for each PW currently available?wereotter said:I don’t think the point of Conflux is to hit every possible effect since most walkers simply can’t do that. It’s more an interesting card that can be used by anyone and does different things for each walker.
I'll save everyone the trouble; nothing thats worth spending 25 Mana. Or even the 15-20 range.0 -
That would be excesively powerful : full hand draw, tons of mana, life and damage to oponent ... the worst part being a potential full hand discard.khurram said:Conflux's effects should act on the colored gems present on the board instead of Mana bonuses.
Insta jump from meh! to woah!!!
However, the card clearly needs a buff or a lowered mana cost. Maybe it could take in account the 3 base mana on each color so the effect would be decent for most walkers.1 -
I really don't see it being stronger than that. This card won't win you games and won't remove existing threats.Mburn7 said:Come on, 12? Its a bit stronger than that. No way they drop it from 25 to 12 without nerfing the effects in some way. I'm trying to be reasonable here. 15-20 would see play, 12 would be nuts.
I'll break down some of the more popular/powerful walkers and what they would get with their standard mana gains at level 60.
Incoming wall of text so...
TL;DR: Conflux should cost 12.
Before we start, here is what it does for 25 mana:
For each color below, perform its effect, where X is your mana bonus of that color.
White: Gain X times 2 life.
Blue: Draw X card(s).
Black: Your opponent discards X divided by 2 cards, rounded up.
Red: Deals X damage to your opponent.
Green: Gain X times 2 mana.
Angrath: Draw 2, Discard 2, Deal 4 damage.
Draw 2 is divination at 4 mana, Discard 2 is (not as good as) Infinite Obliteration (IO) at 6 mana, Deal 4 is Ramunap Ruins at 5 mana. So 3 cards and 15 mana vs one card at 25 mana. Sure it fits more into your deck by combining all those things but what makes those things good is that the come cheaply. Even at 12 mana this isn't the worst thing to be hit with.
Elspeth: Gain 14 life, Draw 3, Gain 6 mana
All pretty generic and useless at 25 mana. The draw 3 is interesting for mono-white however. Still, better than the next walker coming up.
Huatli 2: Gain 10 life, gain 10 mana.
That essentially makes it gain 10 life for 15 mana. At 12 mana it would be gain 10 for 2 mana. There are common cards that do similar for not much more. Even at 12 it's useless here but that's okay by me.
Jace 2: Draw 5, Discard 2
Days Undoing at 10 mana + IO at 6. Discard effect is cool for mono-blue but given that it hits the last 2 cards and there aren't that many other discards available to blue, not a big deal. Even at 12 mana, nothing to see here. Would rather just play Reason//Believe at 11 mana.
Jace 3: Gain 4 life, Draw 3, Discard 1, Deal 1, Gain 2 mana
Boring, yet probably worth playing at 12 mana.
Karn: well...I did say base so: Gain 2 life, Draw 1, Discard 1, Deal 1, Gain 2 mana
Hard to truly evaluate Karn since it will vary from game to game. On average, I'm willing to bet that you won't get more than 2 colors above +5 unless you are intentionally dragging things out and trying to prove me wrong. Oh, and keep in mind that Conflux is colorless and not all 5 colors like its paper counterpart (so no +2 to all from this card).
Karn at +8 to all (maxed from loyalty + Lotus): Gain 16 life, Draw 6, Discard 4, Deal 8, Gain 16 mana.
It takes a lot of effort to get all his mana gains this high. If the game is still going by the time you are able to (if you are able to) hit the magical +7 to all from loyalty, odds are you've had the game well under control and earned a crazy powerful spell.
Kiora: Draw 3, Gain 6 mana
Conflux at 12 mana would be Draw 3 for 6 mana. New perspectives did that for 5 and then some; nothing to see here, moving on.
Koth: Deal 9
A worse Inferno Jet for 2 more mana.
Liliana 1: Draw 1, Discard 2, Deal 1
Meh, she already discards you like mad. Moving on.
Liliana 3: Draw 4, Discard 3(!), Deal 3
Here's where it gets interesting. That is a pretty strong draw for mono-black and a nice discard. The damage is mostly irrelevant. Black can already draw pretty stinking well though, can't it? And it also has discard on lock down. Great card at 12 but not that overbearing to face.
Nahiri: Gain 8 life, Deal 4, Gain 1 mana.
(Mostly) Useless. Next!
Nicol Bolas: Draw 3, Discard 2, Deal 3
See Jace 2, but worse.
Nissa 2 (I know I said powerful/popular, this is a curve ball): Gain 6 life, Deal 1, Gain 8 mana
See H2, only worse but with a whopping 1 damage thrown in.
Nissa 3: Draw 3, Gain 4 mana
Basically the same as Kiora, equally useless for her to play.
Ob: Draw 1, Discard 2, Deal 1
See Bolas, but worse.
Saheeli: Gain 2 life, Draw 4, Discard 1, Deal 4, Gain 2 mana
At 12, that's a pretty efficient card and also pretty cool since it would basically cost 10.
Add Lotus: Gain 4 life, Draw 5, Discard 1, Deal 5, Gain 4 mana.
Hardly a huge improvement, still awesome, still not that threatening.
Samut: Deal 5, Gain 10 mana
Pass? I'm not sure really. This would be a 5 damage spell for 2 mana. I think I'd play that.
Sarkhan (because why not?): Gain 2 life, Draw 1, Discard 1, Deal 2, Gain 2 life
Watch out.
Sorin: hahaha, just kidding...but no seriously: Gain 8 life, Discard 2
Not terrible at 12 mana but is it worth playing?
Teferi: Gain 6 life, Draw 4, Deal 1, Gain 4 mana
Definitely worth play at 12 mana. Oppressive to face down? No. Your favorite card in the deck? Hardly.
Tezz 2: Gain 4 life, Draw 3, Discard 2, Deal 1
I'd play it. Wouldn't fear facing it.
Vraska: Draw 1, Discard 2, Deal 1, Gain 6 mana
Pretty solid at 12 mana.
Add Lotus: Draw 2, Discard 2, Deal 2, Gain 8 mana
With Lotus you have a great 2 card combo. Pretty awesome effect for only 4 manaI. Again though, is this back breaking? I really don't think so.
I stand by my original statement that it should cost 12. The only effect here that might be an issue is the discard but any planeswalker that gets a good discard from Conflux already has better more efficient options available in my opinion.
12 -
Nice job ! Conflux as well as other MPs are not playable!ZW2007- said:
I really don't see it being stronger than that. This card won't win you games and won't remove existing threats.Mburn7 said:Come on, 12? Its a bit stronger than that. No way they drop it from 25 to 12 without nerfing the effects in some way. I'm trying to be reasonable here. 15-20 would see play, 12 would be nuts.
I'll break down some of the more popular/powerful walkers and what they would get with their standard mana gains at level 60.
Incoming wall of text so...
TL;DR: Conflux should cost 12.
Before we start, here is what it does for 25 mana:
For each color below, perform its effect, where X is your mana bonus of that color.
White: Gain X times 2 life.
Blue: Draw X card(s).
Black: Your opponent discards X divided by 2 cards, rounded up.
Red: Deals X damage to your opponent.
Green: Gain X times 2 mana.
Angrath: Draw 2, Discard 2, Deal 4 damage.
Draw 2 is divination at 4 mana, Discard 2 is (not as good as) Infinite Obliteration (IO) at 6 mana, Deal 4 is Ramunap Ruins at 5 mana. So 3 cards and 15 mana vs one card at 25 mana. Sure it fits more into your deck by combining all those things but what makes those things good is that the come cheaply. Even at 12 mana this isn't the worst thing to be hit with.
Elspeth: Gain 14 life, Draw 3, Gain 6 mana
All pretty generic and useless at 25 mana. The draw 3 is interesting for mono-white however. Still, better than the next walker coming up.
Huatli 2: Gain 10 life, gain 10 mana.
That essentially makes it gain 10 life for 15 mana. At 12 mana it would be gain 10 for 2 mana. There are common cards that do similar for not much more. Even at 12 it's useless here but that's okay by me.
Jace 2: Draw 5, Discard 2
Days Undoing at 10 mana + IO at 6. Discard effect is cool for mono-blue but given that it hits the last 2 cards and there aren't that many other discards available to blue, not a big deal. Even at 12 mana, nothing to see here. Would rather just play Reason//Believe at 11 mana.
Jace 3: Gain 4 life, Draw 3, Discard 1, Deal 1, Gain 2 mana
Boring, yet probably worth playing at 12 mana.
Karn: well...I did say base so: Gain 2 life, Draw 1, Discard 1, Deal 1, Gain 2 mana
Hard to truly evaluate Karn since it will vary from game to game. On average, I'm willing to bet that you won't get more than 2 colors above +5 unless you are intentionally dragging things out and trying to prove me wrong. Oh, and keep in mind that Conflux is colorless and not all 5 colors like its paper counterpart (so no +2 to all from this card).
Karn at +8 to all (maxed from loyalty + Lotus): Gain 16 life, Draw 6, Discard 4, Deal 8, Gain 16 mana.
It takes a lot of effort to get all his mana gains this high. If the game is still going by the time you are able to (if you are able to) hit the magical +7 to all from loyalty, odds are you've had the game well under control and earned a crazy powerful spell.
Kiora: Draw 3, Gain 6 mana
Conflux at 12 mana would be Draw 3 for 6 mana. New perspectives did that for 5 and then some; nothing to see here, moving on.
Koth: Deal 9
A worse Inferno Jet for 2 more mana.
Liliana 1: Draw 1, Discard 2, Deal 1
Meh, she already discards you like mad. Moving on.
Liliana 3: Draw 4, Discard 3(!), Deal 3
Here's where it gets interesting. That is a pretty strong draw for mono-black and a nice discard. The damage is mostly irrelevant. Black can already draw pretty stinking well though, can't it? And it also has discard on lock down. Great card at 12 but not that overbearing to face.
Nahiri: Gain 8 life, Deal 4, Gain 1 mana.
(Mostly) Useless. Next!
Nicol Bolas: Draw 3, Discard 2, Deal 3
See Jace 2, but worse.
Nissa 2 (I know I said powerful/popular, this is a curve ball): Gain 6 life, Deal 1, Gain 8 mana
See H2, only worse but with a whopping 1 damage thrown in.
Nissa 3: Draw 3, Gain 4 mana
Basically the same as Kiora, equally useless for her to play.
Ob: Draw 1, Discard 2, Deal 1
See Bolas, but worse.
Saheeli: Gain 2 life, Draw 4, Discard 1, Deal 4, Gain 2 mana
At 12, that's a pretty efficient card and also pretty cool since it would basically cost 10.
Add Lotus: Gain 4 life, Draw 5, Discard 1, Deal 5, Gain 4 mana.
Hardly a huge improvement, still awesome, still not that threatening.
Samut: Deal 5, Gain 10 mana
Pass? I'm not sure really. This would be a 5 damage spell for 2 mana. I think I'd play that.
Sarkhan (because why not?): Gain 2 life, Draw 1, Discard 1, Deal 2, Gain 2 life
Watch out.
Sorin: hahaha, just kidding...but no seriously: Gain 8 life, Discard 2
Not terrible at 12 mana but is it worth playing?
Teferi: Gain 6 life, Draw 4, Deal 1, Gain 4 mana
Definitely worth play at 12 mana. Oppressive to face down? No. Your favorite card in the deck? Hardly.
Tezz 2: Gain 4 life, Draw 3, Discard 2, Deal 1
I'd play it. Wouldn't fear facing it.
Vraska: Draw 1, Discard 2, Deal 1, Gain 6 mana
Pretty solid at 12 mana.
Add Lotus: Draw 2, Discard 2, Deal 2, Gain 8 mana
With Lotus you have a great 2 card combo. Pretty awesome effect for only 4 manaI. Again though, is this back breaking? I really don't think so.
I stand by my original statement that it should cost 12. The only effect here that might be an issue is the discard but any planeswalker that gets a good discard from Conflux already has better more efficient options available in my opinion.1 -
Actually, reread the card.Brakkis said:I'm really not seeing how Living Death seems excellent. It's a one time board wipe and GY exile for 3 creatures the next turn. If those creatures don't then die, you have nothing in your GY to return the next time it's cast, which means you'd have to cast it twice in that scenario to just get those same creatures back.
Primeval's Glorious Rebirth just seems all around superior at Mythic. Use the right creatures in your deck and you can board wipe just as swiftly with that, and it doesn't exile everything else from your GY to boot.
You pull three creatures from your graveyard, power them, *then* wipe the graveyards, *then* kill everything. As a matter of course, you will then (since it's still your turn) cast the three fully powered creature cards you pulled from your graveyard.
Comparing it to Rebirth is apples and oranges.
Granted, Rebirth is an awesome card in it's own right, but it doesn't come with a one-sided board wipe attached.1 -
Convert Pernicious Deed to a Saga.
Chapter I - Convert 6 gems to black or green.
Chapter II - If there are X green gems or fewer, destroy all supports on the field. Otherwise, destroy another support.
Chapter III - If there are X black gems or more, destroy all creatures on the field. Otherwise, destroy yours and your opponents first creature.
0 -
That would be great, but probably not possible. So far it has seemed that D3 is under pretty strict orders from WoTC to keep the cards as close to paper as possible. This is probably too big of a changeBrakkis said:Convert Pernicious Deed to a Saga.
Chapter I - Convert 6 gems to black or green.
Chapter II - If there are X green gems or fewer, destroy all supports on the field. Otherwise, destroy another support.
Chapter III - If there are X black gems or more, destroy all creatures on the field. Otherwise, destroy yours and your opponents first creature.
0 -
Agreed, no chance because of Wizards. But good idea, BrakkisMburn7 said:
That would be great, but probably not possible. So far it has seemed that D3 is under pretty strict orders from WoTC to keep the cards as close to paper as possible. This is probably too big of a changeBrakkis said:Convert Pernicious Deed to a Saga.
Chapter I - Convert 6 gems to black or green.
Chapter II - If there are X green gems or fewer, destroy all supports on the field. Otherwise, destroy another support.
Chapter III - If there are X black gems or more, destroy all creatures on the field. Otherwise, destroy yours and your opponents first creature.0 -
Holy **** they actually listened!! Some of the upcoming changes are pretty much word for word what I suggested (although a lot of the mana cost reductions aren't quite as drastic).
I'm updating the original post with the changes.3 -
They did listen. And amber mox is going to be a powerhouse mythic imho now that it has been reduced by 7 mana. Crazy cheapMburn7 said:Holy tinykitty they actually listened!! Some of the upcoming changes are pretty much word for word what I suggested (although a lot of the mana cost reductions aren't quite as drastic).
I'm updating the original post with the changes.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 44.8K Marvel Puzzle Quest
- 1.5K MPQ News and Announcements
- 20.3K MPQ General Discussion
- 3K MPQ Tips and Guides
- 2K MPQ Character Discussion
- 171 MPQ Supports Discussion
- 2.5K MPQ Events, Tournaments, and Missions
- 2.8K MPQ Alliances
- 6.3K MPQ Suggestions and Feedback
- 6.2K MPQ Bugs and Technical Issues
- 13.6K Magic: The Gathering - Puzzle Quest
- 503 MtGPQ News & Announcements
- 5.4K MtGPQ General Discussion
- 99 MtGPQ Tips & Guides
- 421 MtGPQ Deck Strategy & Planeswalker Discussion
- 298 MtGPQ Events
- 60 MtGPQ Coalitions
- 1.2K MtGPQ Suggestions & Feedback
- 5.6K MtGPQ Bugs & Technical Issues
- 548 Other 505 Go Inc. Games
- 21 Puzzle Quest: The Legend Returns
- 5 Adventure Gnome
- 6 Word Designer: Country Home
- 381 Other Games
- 142 General Discussion
- 239 Off Topic
- 7 505 Go Inc. Forum Rules
- 7 Forum Rules and Site Announcements