Training Grounds would be worth grinding if it gave ...

Mburn7

DumasAG said:

OK, the last two people have stated there are better ways to get orbs. What is the better/more efficient way currently of getting orbs? As far as I know, there is no way to actively grind orbs in this game at the moment.

Technically anything that gets you cards gets you orbs.  Someone else did bring up the point that opening the free pack every 2 hours gives 10-20 orbs, which would be 2-4 matches worth under this system.  

Not sure if that's "better" but its definitely more efficient.

DumasAG

5 orbs per game won

Mburn7 said:

DumasAG said:

OK, the last two people have stated there are better ways to get orbs. What is the better/more efficient way currently of getting orbs? As far as I know, there is no way to actively grind orbs in this game at the moment.

Technically anything that gets you cards gets you orbs.  Someone else did bring up the point that opening the free pack every 2 hours gives 10-20 orbs, which would be 2-4 matches worth under this system.  

Not sure if that's "better" but its definitely more efficient.

Is that more efficient? I assume that I can win 2-4 matches in a shorter period of time than 2 hours, and it's repeatable, so in theory that system would be more efficient. I don't know of another way to gain cards short of purchasing resources and paying for packs, either, because no grindable resource (which at the moment is just runes?) can be used to purchase cards, even basic boosters. Once upon a time, of course, runes could get you cards. In the good old days.

Froggy

Never! TG is awful

DumasAG said:

Mburn7 said:

DumasAG said:

OK, the last two people have stated there are better ways to get orbs. What is the better/more efficient way currently of getting orbs? As far as I know, there is no way to actively grind orbs in this game at the moment.

Technically anything that gets you cards gets you orbs.  Someone else did bring up the point that opening the free pack every 2 hours gives 10-20 orbs, which would be 2-4 matches worth under this system.  

Not sure if that's "better" but its definitely more efficient.

Is that more efficient? I assume that I can win 2-4 matches in a shorter period of time than 2 hours, and it's repeatable, so in theory that system would be more efficient. I don't know of another way to gain cards short of purchasing resources and paying for packs, either, because no grindable resource (which at the moment is just runes?) can be used to purchase cards, even basic boosters. Once upon a time, of course, runes could get you cards. In the good old days.

Okay, so it’s really a question of what you want to do and much physical time you want to invest in the game.

You could grind on endlessly in TG and get 5 orbs a game. Let’s say your deck is superb and you nail each game in 3 minutes - and never lose. True, you’d get 5,000 orbs faster than if you checked in every few hours or so. But that’s 50 straight hours of winning every single game and zero interruptions. Personally, I highly doubt anyone wants to do that, or could.

That’s not efficient by my standard.

For orbs, I focus on progression packs, daily boosters throughout the month and I try getting as many premium packs to opening when they release a new set - it gives higher orb value for the dupes. I really avoid PPs from non-current sets. Unless (as is the case now), they have the same going rate for orbs.

I’m just commenting on what I have been doing. And I guess I have something to say - owning all Origins, all Legacy (including KLD/AER), needing 2 mythics in AKH and 1 from HOU. I killed it on crafting - having crafted well over 100 mythics.

So, to stay on topic - BRING BACK QB!!!!

DumasAG

5 orbs per game won

Froggy said:

DumasAG said:

Mburn7 said:

DumasAG said:

OK, the last two people have stated there are better ways to get orbs. What is the better/more efficient way currently of getting orbs? As far as I know, there is no way to actively grind orbs in this game at the moment.

Technically anything that gets you cards gets you orbs.  Someone else did bring up the point that opening the free pack every 2 hours gives 10-20 orbs, which would be 2-4 matches worth under this system.  

Not sure if that's "better" but its definitely more efficient.

Is that more efficient? I assume that I can win 2-4 matches in a shorter period of time than 2 hours, and it's repeatable, so in theory that system would be more efficient. I don't know of another way to gain cards short of purchasing resources and paying for packs, either, because no grindable resource (which at the moment is just runes?) can be used to purchase cards, even basic boosters. Once upon a time, of course, runes could get you cards. In the good old days.

Okay, so it’s really a question of what you want to do and much physical time you want to invest in the game.

You could grind on endlessly in TG and get 5 orbs a game. Let’s say your deck is superb and you nail each game in 3 minutes - and never lose. True, you’d get 5,000 orbs faster than if you checked in every few hours or so. But that’s 50 straight hours of winning every single game and zero interruptions. Personally, I highly doubt anyone wants to do that, or could.

That’s not efficient by my standard.

For orbs, I focus on progression packs, daily boosters throughout the month and I try getting as many premium packs to opening when they release a new set - it gives higher orb value for the dupes. I really avoid PPs from non-current sets. Unless (as is the case now), they have the same going rate for orbs.

I’m just commenting on what I have been doing. And I guess I have something to say - owning all Origins, all Legacy (including KLD/AER), needing 2 mythics in AKH and 1 from HOU. I killed it on crafting - having crafted well over 100 mythics.

So, to stay on topic - BRING BACK QB!!!!

Alright, so really just different definitions of efficiency. I agree with you, I'd never invest that many hours into grinding orbs. But I do think I'd spend 20-30 minutes here or there, and at 5 orbs per win that's realistically 20-30 orbs here or there on top of the orbs from the 2-hour pack, so that's certainly more efficient by my standard than NOT being able to earn orbs for wins.

Gunmix25

Froggy said:

Bring.back.quick.battle!!

Help us @Brigby. You’re our only hope...

if it gave runes and nothing else. Sure. Otherwise that is a lot of nope.

Not gonna vote. A biased voting scale proves nothing IMHO. Best to include more options than voting for a reaffirmation of an opinion by the OP.

Coilbox

GrizzoMtGPQ said:

If TG gave orbs and runes I'd grind it. It's why I played so much QB. It gave progression any time I wanted it. This game needs this so bad. I think somewhere between 5-10 is the right number because, after all, you are leveling your PWs at the same time. Without cards though it's meaningless as there is nothing to do with your walker. I like the idea of a streak giving a bonus. I used to covet long stretches of QB without a loss and doing it fast. Would be cool if they gave us a stats leaderboard - longest streak or top orbs gained - just for bragging rights. We need more bragging!

A bonus on every 5 streaks, like the TV show 'who wants to be a millionaire'. You grab your orbs only if you streak 5 times and then the bonus goes up. You decide if you want to stop and grab your orbs and start from zero, or risk it and keep going to increase it more but if you lose you lose it all... I'd love that

Mburn7

Coilbox said:

GrizzoMtGPQ said:

If TG gave orbs and runes I'd grind it. It's why I played so much QB. It gave progression any time I wanted it. This game needs this so bad. I think somewhere between 5-10 is the right number because, after all, you are leveling your PWs at the same time. Without cards though it's meaningless as there is nothing to do with your walker. I like the idea of a streak giving a bonus. I used to covet long stretches of QB without a loss and doing it fast. Would be cool if they gave us a stats leaderboard - longest streak or top orbs gained - just for bragging rights. We need more bragging!

A bonus on every 5 streaks, like the TV show 'who wants to be a millionaire'. You grab your orbs only if you streak 5 times and then the bonus goes up. You decide if you want to stop and grab your orbs and start from zero, or risk it and keep going to increase it more but if you lose you lose it all... I'd love that

I'm not a huge fan of the streak ideas.  It would be fun, sure, but since I'm mostly using TG to test new decks and tweak them a bit I lose a lot.  I also use it for testing buggy cards and when I'm on the subway (and lose internet frequently).  Making it streak-based will definitely discourage all of that and make it like QB with zoos as far as the eye can see.  I'd rather avoid that

GrizzoMtGPQ

5 orbs per game won

@Gunmix25 I tried to edit the poll right after I posted to give more neutral and different options based on similar feedback. This crummy forum software wouldn't let me do it. I'll be more diligent next time!

babar3355

Never! TG is awful

Mburn7 said:

Thuran said:

No neutral option? Just have it give 300-350 runes per win and its worth Grinding to levwl up pws

350 is probably a little overboard.  300 is QB, where there were no progression rewards.  I think 200 is a good number that could actually work

That is such a strange concept.  You are saying that because you get rewards for the first 4 fights you should get less runes for each subsequent battle?  What about the mythic/rare prizes, boosters, and crystals you could get for QB placement?

Honestly, even 300 runes is way too little for platinum TG in my opinion.  As I mentioned in this post https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/72088/please-sir-may-i-have-some-more-runes/p1 it would take you 1080 games to level Karn to 60 at 300 runes.  At 5 minutes a game that would be 90 hours of grinding.  In what world is that reasonable?

Anyway, I think 5 orbs  is way to little to convince me to grind TG for orbs. Again, that would be 600 games for a single legacy mythic.... um, no thanks.

Mburn7

babar3355 said:

Mburn7 said:

Thuran said:

No neutral option? Just have it give 300-350 runes per win and its worth Grinding to levwl up pws

350 is probably a little overboard.  300 is QB, where there were no progression rewards.  I think 200 is a good number that could actually work

That is such a strange concept.  You are saying that because you get rewards for the first 4 fights you should get less runes for each subsequent battle?  What about the mythic/rare prizes, boosters, and crystals you could get for QB placement?

If I remember correctly, the justification for giving 100 runes as is with progression rewards was to put in diminishing returns (so people aren't pressured to play forever like they were in QB).
I do think that TG shouldn't be a super-efficient farm like it would if you gave a ton of runes and progression (yes, I am a free player who is against too much free stuff).

Also, I'm being practical.  No way the devs would sign off on 350 runes per win AND progression rewards.  Hell, they probably won't even sign off on 350 period.

200 is a fair number that would make life easier for grinding but not so much that everyone gets everything up to 60 in a week.  

babar3355

Never! TG is awful

Mburn7 said:

If I remember correctly, the justification for giving 100 runes as is with progression rewards was to put in diminishing returns (so people aren't pressured to play forever like they were in QB).
I do think that TG shouldn't be a super-efficient farm like it would if you gave a ton of runes and progression (yes, I am a free player who is against too much free stuff).

Also, I'm being practical.  No way the devs would sign off on 350 runes per win AND progression rewards.  Hell, they probably won't even sign off on 350 period.

200 is a fair number that would make life easier for grinding but not so much that everyone gets everything up to 60 in a week.  

*Shudder* I am having flashbacks to discussions with a now banned forum goer who liked to use words like "free stuff" in relation to rewards earned.

With the progression runes you get 1030 runes in 4 games of TG.  So if this is your only source of runes it would take you about 300 days of TG progression to level Karn to 60.  So either:

1.  They need to provide a source for grinding runes that is reasonable.  (Grinding 3000+ games is not reasonable compared to other games that require grinding/leveling.)

2.  They don't want us to level our planeswalkers to 60.  If this is true, it is truly a horrible decision.  I honestly feel bad that my ridiculous Karn deck with 9 mythics and Gilded Lotus is stomping around in TG at level 40.  The competition I am running into has Nissa 1 with 0-1 mythics and other such early game stuff.  Guess who they are running up against when they play?  Yup, a hoard of tricked out Karn's and NBs who we can't afford to level even though we want to. No wonder newer players complain about the difficulty of TG.

I would encourage you to think in terms of time commitment rather than a randomly conceived number of runes.  If you think it is reasonable to play around 200 games to fully level a PW, then we can back into the number of runes per game to get us to a good answer. Throwing 200 out as a number pulled from thin air (well perhaps anchored to the pathetic amount of runes we currently get) doesn't work towards solving the problem.

Gunmix25

GrizzoMtGPQ said:

@Gunmix25 I tried to edit the poll right after I posted to give more neutral and different options based on similar feedback. This crummy forum software wouldn't let me do it. I'll be more diligent next time!

it's all good,lol. *knuckle bump*

Mainloop25

Id rather have them make a new mini game that let's you grind orbs, rather than tack anything new onto TG. It's already so far from its original intention. Giving you any more rewards would just further push it away from being a place to test decks. 

tfg76

I think they should just get rid of TG and expand Across Ixalan with a farther progression and more rewards (orbs and runes seem appropriate). There's no point in legacy "training grounds", since legacy is only a casual format at this point, and so training for the events seems unneccessary.

Bil

tfg76 said:

I think they should just get rid of TG and expand Across Ixalan with a farther progression and more rewards (orbs and runes seem appropriate). There's no point in legacy "training grounds", since legacy is only a casual format at this point, and so training for the events seems unneccessary.

   On the contrary, its precisely because almost no interesting events are legacy that we need TG (or QB). We need to be able to play legacy cards at any time if we want to, even if it is for no rewards but fun. 
  Across ixalan is standard, and so are most of the interesting events. Standards is well representated and doesnt particularly need a place to be played, so there's no real need to enhance AI.
 Besides, TG is the only place where you can fight decks that are not built under secundaries objectives restrictions.
  
  The rewards problem is another point though, it has nothing to do with TG being standard or legacy.

[Deleted User]

FindingHeart8 said:

I like training grounds but a huge orb reward could be abused.

but as it is I feel like we as players could use a few more orbs than we are currently getting.

At 3 orbs per win, you would have to play 1,000 matches to earn a legacy mythic.

I guess by then I'd have to agree that player would have rightly earned that mythic by such a huge contribution of time, but is ultimately fair to other players who don't have all the extra time to dedicate?

I dunno...it's tricky.  Here's a picture of a turtle.

I guess 3-5 orbs is fine. But I agree about the whole people having time vs those that dont and about the whole 1000 games to get 1 mythic deal.

On the other hand, dont want another grindy little feature. Ive got 90 mythics in legacy i need to craft... Either way its not going to happen. Everything feels so stingy in this game. Sigh. Man, i have been playing a year now but imagine new players. I will never get to craft my legacy cards and it seems the same will be true for newer players. Tsk tsk.

I am lost as to what needs to be done now. The game has come such a long ways for the better but honestly quiting this game as a whole would reduce a lot of stress for me and allow me to actually level up in real life. Hmmm sorry started ranting. 

__Adam

Anything that can be exploited will be exploited. And nothing says "exploit me" like an unlimited resource.

I would never expect to be able to grind runes and orbs without limit.  That essentially leaves crystals, which you would only need for PW's and entry fees.  That's not good for the game's bottom line.

wereotter

Never! TG is awful

Orbs should not be a grindable currency, especially not in Training Grounds.

Training Grounds is already a place where if you have a large collection of legacy cards, you're going to win. If you don't, you're going to struggle. Awarding orbs for free non-duplicate cards to people who can most efficiently farm it because they have a strong collection of cards is a system where those who have will get more and those who don't will fall behind.

This is exactly the kind of thing that we don't want.

bk1234

--Adam said:

Anything that can be exploited will be exploited. And nothing says "exploit me" like an unlimited resource.

I would never expect to be able to grind runes and orbs without limit.  That essentially leaves crystals, which you would only need for PW's and entry fees.  That's not good for the game's bottom line.

We are able to grind runes without a limit. I've done about 20K today alone. 

Gunmix25

tfg76 said:

I think they should just get rid of TG and expand Across Ixalan with a farther progression and more rewards (orbs and runes seem appropriate). There's no point in legacy "training grounds", since legacy is only a casual format at this point, and so training for the events seems unneccessary.

when I started in Nov. 2016 there was absolutely no way to test out a deck unless you played some event which of course had objectives; so that was self defeating. For QB it was a nightmare...you couldn't test squat. Pure legacy as Standard wasn't even a concept yet and the elites dominated the field with the high mythic/fat pack reward system that was in place for coalition and individual events. It was a slaughterhouse for non-platinum players.

'Training Grounds' is a misnomer IMHO, and more closely to what I would call a 'testing ground' than anything. You are not "training for events" as that was never really the original intent and more simply for testing out decks. Across Ixalan is not a decent place to test any kind of deck... period. It is an event with objectives and those objectives reduce the sample of what you could put together as a deck to earn jewels. I've already seen people arguing that playing A.I. and ignoring objectives is the same as TG... no, no it is not. Not even close.

 TG serves a very good function for the game and allows for a place to test out deck builds without objective or color requirements.  Only downside is that it is presently legacy only.  We have no way to test the effectiveness of a standard build in a standard environment.  

I'd like to see a new way to grind runes and crystals. But the issue is that there must be a balance that allows some kind of encouragement for players to buy, thus finance this game vs providing a healthy yet not too rich of a ROI in terms of play time and purchases made through crystals and leveled by runes