A Nicol for your thoughts...

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Comments

  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Make his first -5/-5 instead, or since people didn't like that, make it -10/-10 even!
    Someone mentioned card advantage before, it's not just about him not needing a card for destroy, it's that he can wipe out your stack of 3 epensive creatures with no card.
  • Sirchombli
    Sirchombli Posts: 322 Mover and Shaker
    I don't think you're gonna win this one. Bolas is a fact of life, now. I cringe a little every time I face bolas, but I thoroughly enjoy using him. By how often I face him, so does everybody else . Embrace the evil .
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    The only time I really hate facing Bolas is when my objectives want me to win in a certain amount of turns. Creatureless strategies generally aren't fast enough unless I'm playing Bolas myself with Imminent Doom.
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    I suppose that in a way he is corrective. In paper magic, aggro can't (and isn't supposed to) be able to beat everything. Similarly, in this game some decks should have a rock to your scissors. This forces players to consider card draw and recurrent threats in building for facing a true control planeswalker
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    wereotter said:
    Kinesia said:
    Make his first -5/-5 instead, or since people didn't like that, make it -10/-10 even!
    Someone mentioned card advantage before, it's not just about him not needing a card for destroy, it's that he can wipe out your stack of 3 epensive creatures with no card.
    As much as I would prefer seeing the -5/-5 as well, I don't think you're going to win most players over who like Bolas as-is, and I don't much care for the idea of simply swapping his first and second abilities.

    However, I did have the beginnings of an idea today that maybe would be a good solution for him:

    Ability 1 Cost 9:
    Level 1 - Reanimate fallen creatures as Zombies, and deal damage based on the number of Zombies you control
    Level 2 - Reanimate fallen creatures as Zombies, and deal damage based on the number of Zombies you control times 2
    Level 3 - Reanimate fallen creatures as Zombies, and deal damage based on the number of Zombies you control times 3
    Level 4 - Reanimate fallen creatures as Zombies, and deal damage based on the number of Zombies you control times 4

    Ability 2
    Leave as-is

    Ability 3 - Cost 21

    Level 1 - Each creature your opponent controls gets -1/-1
    Level 2 - Each creature your opponent controls gets -2/-2
    Level 3 - Each creature your opponent controls gets -3/-3
    Level 4 - Destroy each creature your opponent controls

    This makes his destroy ability much more powerful, but not only that, it also makes it more loyalty efficient as it costs 21 loyalty to destroy three creatures instead of 27. On top of that, his abilities would no longer be targeted, meaning he could kill a Gaea's Revenge or other similar creatures. Specifics might need to be tweaked, but would be a good middle ground between those who still want his ability to kill, and those who are sick of seeing him spam it constantly while still having Liliana's Defeat, Final Reward, and two copies of Walk the Plank fully charged in his hand.
    Reanimating for 9 might be a bit obnoxious, but I like the new direction here.
  • DBJones
    DBJones Posts: 803 Critical Contributor
    I'd really like this change for Bolas! The re-animate would be much more interesting to play against than just repeatedly losing creatures. It would also give me yet another use for my favorite common creature, Graven Abomination! He'd probably still have kill spells, so my big first strike defender strategy would be less optimal, but still workable.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    I say leave him alone.  Just play around his first.

    I actually find it refreshing to play a PW that is semi-challenging on occasion.
  • Rhasget
    Rhasget Posts: 412 Mover and Shaker
    If possible I use all Hexproof or creatureless against Bolas.
    Since last update that usually leavea him not using loyalty at all, not even spawning free zombies.

    If I get up against him in an event with the wrong deck he can be frustrating though, but that goes with many PWs.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    Saw a nicol bolas today with a star on its profile pic, wonder what that means...

    I mightve known this already and forgot, can someone remind me?
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Saw a nicol bolas today with a star on its profile pic, wonder what that means...

    I mightve known this already and forgot, can someone remind me?

    City's Blessing? 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    babar3355 said:
    I say leave him alone.  Just play around his first.

    I actually find it refreshing to play a PW that is semi-challenging on occasion.
    "on occasion"

    That's the problem.

    It's not "on occasion".
    Getting to play against _anyone_ except Bolas is some environments (like Black TotP) is "on occasion".
    I want variety but too many people skew towards Bolas. Regardless of any justifications the amount he is used indicate that he _is_ unbalanced even if it's only slightly.


    It would be extremely interesting if they'd release the state on how often different PWs were used in different events...
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    Kiora got nerfed because her abilities were too good and their reasoning was that literally everyone was using her and the amount of players that quit games when faced against her was exceptionally high compared to other planeswalkers. There was massive backlash and they ended up only slightly nerfing her by increasing the cost of her first ability. I could see something similar happen to Bolas if their numbers suggest a reason to do it. However, I don't believe Bolas is as oppressive as Kiora was in her heyday. I also think a reason for Bolas' heavy use is that he can be used on three different colored nodes. Players with limited resources are smart to purchase Bolas because a 3-color planeswalker is more versatile than a 2-color or mono-color one. This alone likely leads to us facing him a lot. You also have to consider the fact that being three colors allows him to use more interesting card combos which just makes him more fun to play. 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    I suspect I'll find him less annoying after NP is gone. Not many people run cycling but NP is a critical part of some of the mana/draw engines with him. It's also interesting that you see him far far more in Black than in Red or Blue, I think it's partly because he's the most popular Black PW with support destruction.
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    Before Bolas, Black with support removal was either Sorin or Sarkhan.  Not a great selection.  At least now there’s Vraska.
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
    I think bola 1st should be able to kill his own creatures to make him more practical
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    wereotter said:
    Mburn7 said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Switch bolas's first and second, make the destroy into Exile and done
    I can't tell if that's more OP or less.  Definitely would be interesting.  Not sure if its the best thing for the game.
    Probably would have to make fewer zombies to not be over powered if this was implemented. Drawing cards and getting an 8/8 creature pile is too much for 9 loyalty. Probably only 2 2/2 zombies and card draw
    I agree, didn't think of the zombies. Maybe even only 1 2/2. 

    I think that slowing down the scorpion sting would be good for the game
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    andrewvanmarle said:
    wereotter said:
    Mburn7 said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Switch bolas's first and second, make the destroy into Exile and done
    I can't tell if that's more OP or less.  Definitely would be interesting.  Not sure if its the best thing for the game.
    Probably would have to make fewer zombies to not be over powered if this was implemented. Drawing cards and getting an 8/8 creature pile is too much for 9 loyalty. Probably only 2 2/2 zombies and card draw
    I agree, didn't think of the zombies. Maybe even only 1 2/2. 

    I think that slowing down the scorpion sting would be good for the game
    2 2/2 would be fine, as it puts it in line with other first ability tokens (Garruk's 4 1/1 Plants, Sahili's 4 1/1 Thopters, and Gid Z's 4/4 Ally).

    It would also make his second similar to Ob's, although with less downside at max (and worse at lower levels to compensate).  I also think that's fair.

    This would definitely be a fair fix, it wouldn't break anything or make Bolas worthless, just a little less spammable

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