Team/Character Balance

TPF Alexis

I just finished up my climb to 2K in Sim, and I was very pleasantly surprised by how much variety I saw. Yeah, there were a fair number of Grockamoradusa and counter-teams, but I was also seeing a lot of Bl4de, C4rol, Coulson, Rogue, America, and Mockingbird. Even a few people bringing MaxChamped Strang3 along with their 4*. I don't record exact numbers, but it felt like substantially more variety than the last couple of Seasons.

gentgeen

Are you looking for teams to beat the Gamora/Rocket/Medusa team?  See https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/70737/tired-of-4-medusa-rocket-gamora


As for nerfing, although I use this team all the time, I would be more then willing to see some fix applied to Medusa.  

Every other character (almost every?) out there has some kind of counter and/or limit to their passive power.   Prof X only works if HIS team makes the match five, Carnegie stops making attack after X number on board, Falcon requires you to keep 5 blue, etc.... 

Entanglement = Matched OR destroyed and it will still makes attack tiles.  It does not matter if you stun her first or not, nor does it matter which team makes the match.  It causes damage if you leave it along, and it also causes damage if you match it away.  Then there is no limit on the number of attack tiles it will create, and no limit on when / how many times it will show up.   There is NO counter and no limit on this power.  

Resolute Queen = Doesn't matter which side does the match, and doesn't matter who the tile belongs to - if an attack/protect/strike tile gets matched, she 'wins'.   The closest thing to a counter/limit is "don't make special tiles", well too bad, she can make an unlimited supply of her own. 

I know "nerfing" is generally frowned on, but I would be very happy if they gave her a little bit of fix. 

Hadronic

Daredevil217 said:

Trivial nodes are the level 35 nodes in PVE. I don’t have 5* Thanos champed so don’t know if he can kill a person with one match. I do know that the time it would take to swap out 1* would make that team slower than Grocket. 

hence the need of the fodder farm to make this work.
1* heal from death in roughly 5 minutes.
if you have ~8 copies (Blue Widow, and Purple Spiderman so you can also send them as TU) the first one will be alive again by the time you kill the last one. This creates the infinite fodder loop.
When they die, the game will automatically place the one with highest health on your team for next match.

You can grind infinitely like this with 0 health packs and never digging through your roster.
And your alliance will love all the stuns and critical tiles you can send as guaranteed TUs.

If your Thano5 happens to be 550 (mine is not) you can "TAP" non trivial nodes like this as well, indefinitely, without health packs, all day long.

tiomono

gentgeen said:

Are you looking for teams to beat the Gamora/Rocket/Medusa team?  See https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/70737/tired-of-4-medusa-rocket-gamora


As for nerfing, although I use this team all the time, I would be more then willing to see some fix applied to Medusa.  

Every other character (almost every?) out there has some kind of counter and/or limit to their passive power.   Prof X only works if HIS team makes the match five, Carnegie stops making attack after X number on board, Falcon requires you to keep 5 blue, etc.... 

Entanglement = Matched OR destroyed and it will still makes attack tiles.  It does not matter if you stun her first or not, nor does it matter which team makes the match.  It causes damage if you leave it along, and it also causes damage if you match it away.  Then there is no limit on the number of attack tiles it will create, and no limit on when / how many times it will show up.   There is NO counter and no limit on this power.  

Resolute Queen = Doesn't matter which side does the match, and doesn't matter who the tile belongs to - if an attack/protect/strike tile gets matched, she 'wins'.   The closest thing to a counter/limit is "don't make special tiles", well too bad, she can make an unlimited supply of her own. 

I know "nerfing" is generally frowned on, but I would be very happy if they gave her a little bit of fix. 

Overwriting it counters her countdown tile. So characters like 3* falcon or gambit counter her countdown. Of course she does pop another out on her next turn.

Dormammu

gentgeen said:

As for nerfing, although I use this team all the time, I would be more then willing to see some fix applied to Medusa.  

Every other character (almost every?) out there has some kind of counter and/or limit to their passive power.

Except, she's not broken or over-powered in my opinion. Medusa by herself is actually very meek. If you ask me, 3-star Iron Fist is more dangerous than Medusa. She just fits very well with a handful of 4-star teams out there and it makes her an attractive character. So does Carol. So does Chavez. So does Vulture.

As for a counter, his name is Red Hulk.

Medusa doesn't scare me. Now, Medusa + Carnage + Mr. F scares me! But there is a counter to that team just like there are counters to Grocket + Gamora + Medusa that uses Medusa's power against her.

gentgeen

You are correct, she is meek - and I imagine that is why you don't have the boards up in arms.  But I would argue that she is broken.  ( You noticed I did not use the phrase 'over powered' - she is not overpowered, she simply breaks gameplay)

• Iron Fist's passive has a limit - if there is already an attack tile on the board, he will not make another.
• Carol's passive has a limit - it depends on which team does the match, and only works on one color.  (or if you talking 3* it also has a limit, only after X amount of damage).
  
• All of Chavez's have some kind of limit on them 
• (I don't know Vulture well enough yet to speak to his powers).
  

If a power has a limit, then there is some strategy that can be used to counter/minimize it.  (Non-passive powers all have at least 1 built in limit, the number of matches needed to get enough AP to fire)

Red Hulk is NOT the counter to Medusa, he is the counter to the Grocket/Gamora/Medusa team. (In fact, without some kind of multiplier on the board, her damage is not big enough to trigger RHulk.)  That said, if you counter to a character is a specific character, you have some broken gameplay.  

The game is "puzzlequest" ... there should be some strategy involved.  There is NO strategy available to fight Medusa besides "outgun & outlast".  Lucky her health is low enough that it can be done, but throw in some force multiplier like Carnage or Gr4cket and now her brokenness becomes super apparent.

Medusa's red is going to cause 688pts damage (minimum) every turn she is standing / not stunned.  Then it ALSO has potential to scale up to unlimited damage.  There is no other single player out there that can scale up to UNLIMITED damage.  The only one I can think of is 'old' Carnage - and they have since put a cap on his power.  

This has been all about her red, but then you also add to it that her yellow also triggers no matter which team does the match.  Not to many (any?) characters have a power that benefits the character's team no matter which side does the match.  So now you have TWO passives with almost unlimited benefit to the team - it is a broken mechanic.  There is a reason they call her "Annoy-a-queen" 

JackTenrec

gentgeen said:

Entanglement = Matched OR destroyed and it will still makes attack tiles.  It does not matter if you stun her first or not, nor does it matter which team makes the match.  It causes damage if you leave it along, and it also causes damage if you match it away.  Then there is no limit on the number of attack tiles it will create, and no limit on when / how many times it will show up.   There is NO counter and no limit on this power.  

The number of available counters is not large, true, but it's not zero (and this is probably not comprehensive):

1) Any stun to Medusa will prevent the damage from the countdown tile (I assume Nova/Riri Airborne would also work)
2) 2* Cap/Steve Rogers can (with enough covers) overwrite the countdown tile without triggering it
3) Invisible Woman/Bagman can lock the tile
4) Enough Protect tiles will effectively counter the countdown damage
5) Or you can just match/destroy the countdown and use a tile-stealer (which is why mirror-teaming Medusa is so common)

If you want to counter her other passive, then your best option is a stun.

ThaRoadWarrior

If you had a single black Gambit cover prior to the...re-balance, that could be pretty useful to the right team. But not in the way OML was useful, that's true.

Dormammu

JackTenrec said:

3) Invisible Woman/Bagman can lock the tile

+1 for suggesting I even consider bringing Bagman to a 4-star fight, much less any fight.
  

Dogface

ThaRoadWarrior said:

If you had a single black Gambit cover prior to the...re-balance, that could be pretty useful to the right team. But not in the way OML was useful, that's true.

Speaking of OML, does he not heal if he's the last man standing? It seems like that in the yellow power description. 

ThaRoadWarrior

JackTenrec said:

gentgeen said:

Entanglement = Matched OR destroyed and it will still makes attack tiles.  It does not matter if you stun her first or not, nor does it matter which team makes the match.  It causes damage if you leave it along, and it also causes damage if you match it away.  Then there is no limit on the number of attack tiles it will create, and no limit on when / how many times it will show up.   There is NO counter and no limit on this power.  

The number of available counters is not large, true, but it's not zero (and this is probably not comprehensive):

1) Any stun to Medusa will prevent the damage from the countdown tile (I assume Nova/Riri Airborne would also work)
2) 2* Cap/Steve Rogers can (with enough covers) overwrite the countdown tile without triggering it
3) Invisible Woman/Bagman can lock the tile
4) Enough Protect tiles will effectively counter the countdown damage
5) Or you can just match/destroy the countdown and use a tile-stealer (which is why mirror-teaming Medusa is so common)

If you want to counter her other passive, then your best option is a stun.

The one thing funky about a stunned Medusa is that destroying Entanglement still causes it to split into attacks when she is stunned, unlike most other powers. For instance 4ocket's green, which typically blows up in your face when matched away, does not do so when he is stunned.

I'd add to this list of counters by saying a few characters can just straight up remove the countdown. Of course she'll just make a new on on the following turn if not stunned, but it is still a thing:
1) Nico's active blue will remove it with a 3(+ # countdowns removed)-turn stun
2) Spider-Woman's To Love and Fear will remove it
3) Teen Jean can do it with enough covers on Purple

Doc L

ThaRoadWarrior said:

The one thing funky about a stunned Medusa is that destroying Entanglement still causes it to split into attacks when she is stunned, unlike most other powers. For instance 4ocket's green, which typically blows up in your face when matched away, does not do so when he is stunned.

This is literally one of the most annoying bugs (if it is a bug of course) in the game - the number of times I've stunned the opposing team, then matched away their countdown tile, not remembering it was Medusa specifically...

Man, I'd be a rich man if I got a dollar every time.

tiomono

ThaRoadWarrior said:

JackTenrec said:

gentgeen said:

Entanglement = Matched OR destroyed and it will still makes attack tiles.  It does not matter if you stun her first or not, nor does it matter which team makes the match.  It causes damage if you leave it along, and it also causes damage if you match it away.  Then there is no limit on the number of attack tiles it will create, and no limit on when / how many times it will show up.   There is NO counter and no limit on this power.  

The number of available counters is not large, true, but it's not zero (and this is probably not comprehensive):

1) Any stun to Medusa will prevent the damage from the countdown tile (I assume Nova/Riri Airborne would also work)
2) 2* Cap/Steve Rogers can (with enough covers) overwrite the countdown tile without triggering it
3) Invisible Woman/Bagman can lock the tile
4) Enough Protect tiles will effectively counter the countdown damage
5) Or you can just match/destroy the countdown and use a tile-stealer (which is why mirror-teaming Medusa is so common)

If you want to counter her other passive, then your best option is a stun.

The one thing funky about a stunned Medusa is that destroying Entanglement still causes it to split into attacks when she is stunned, unlike most other powers. For instance 4ocket's green, which typically blows up in your face when matched away, does not do so when he is stunned.

I'd add to this list of counters by saying a few characters can just straight up remove the countdown. Of course she'll just make a new on on the following turn if not stunned, but it is still a thing:
1) Nico's active blue will remove it with a 3(+ # countdowns removed)-turn stun
2) Spider-Woman's To Love and Fear will remove it
3) Teen Jean can do it with enough covers on Purple

5* Daredevils green will also hit you if you match it while he is stunned.

tiomono

gentgeen said:

You are correct, she is meek - and I imagine that is why you don't have the boards up in arms.  But I would argue that she is broken.  ( You noticed I did not use the phrase 'over powered' - she is not overpowered, she simply breaks gameplay)

• Iron Fist's passive has a limit - if there is already an attack tile on the board, he will not make another.
• Carol's passive has a limit - it depends on which team does the match, and only works on one color.  (or if you talking 3* it also has a limit, only after X amount of damage).
  
• All of Chavez's have some kind of limit on them 
• (I don't know Vulture well enough yet to speak to his powers).
  

If a power has a limit, then there is some strategy that can be used to counter/minimize it.  (Non-passive powers all have at least 1 built in limit, the number of matches needed to get enough AP to fire)

Red Hulk is NOT the counter to Medusa, he is the counter to the Grocket/Gamora/Medusa team. (In fact, without some kind of multiplier on the board, her damage is not big enough to trigger RHulk.)  That said, if you counter to a character is a specific character, you have some broken gameplay.  

The game is "puzzlequest" ... there should be some strategy involved.  There is NO strategy available to fight Medusa besides "outgun & outlast".  Lucky her health is low enough that it can be done, but throw in some force multiplier like Carnage or Gr4cket and now her brokenness becomes super apparent.

Medusa's red is going to cause 688pts damage (minimum) every turn she is standing / not stunned.  Then it ALSO has potential to scale up to unlimited damage.  There is no other single player out there that can scale up to UNLIMITED damage.  The only one I can think of is 'old' Carnage - and they have since put a cap on his power.  

This has been all about her red, but then you also add to it that her yellow also triggers no matter which team does the match.  Not to many (any?) characters have a power that benefits the character's team no matter which side does the match.  So now you have TWO passives with almost unlimited benefit to the team - it is a broken mechanic.  There is a reason they call her "Annoy-a-queen" 

Picking your team is part of the puzzle. Puzzle or strategy games only go so deep. A game like this always has certain combinations that are easier to pull off or hard to mess up. Medusa is in that category for the 4* tier.

Gameplay is not broken if you need something else to counter a strategy. Team selection is a major part of the puzzle in puzzle quest. There are multiple ways to deal with medusa, even when she is paired with the likes of carnage. And you do not have to have your own medusa to deal with her.

If she was truly "broken" or unlimited then she would be on every team all the time. She is not on every team all the time.