When is it time for 6-stars?

KinDM

From what I've seen with other games, 6* would be a significant nail in the coffin. Games like this really depend on new players taking up the game and playing regularly. As it is, I'd argue roster slots are a more significant barrier to entry than anything, but that's for another topic. After cost of initial investment to compete in even a middling way in the game (i.e. money needed for said slots), you then get to ability to realistically compete. There are two ways to compete in this game: outright spend money to get the most powerful characters, or manage resources over time to selectively maximize the potential of your resources. As it is now, the timespan for a free-to-play player to go from 2* to 5* player via hoarding is much smaller than it used to be, and that's good, it means that new players can talk to teammates or people here on the forum and get an idea of what they're in for. Every new level of competition added will increase the difficulty for new players to compete in any meaningful way, often exponentially (compare the difficulty in champing a 4* vs a 5* right now, and apply that same ratio to 6* covers), which will likely drop player retention. There are ways to minimize the effect of this but many would require a major overhaul (remove competition from pve and make it solo or alliance progression only, so only PvP is competitive and any player can work toward building their roster at their own pace thru PvE, make 3*, 4*, and 5* much easier to get, and 6* comparable to current 5* difficulty).

There are a few other options that could be looked at though in place of 6* characters. They could revitalize older 5*s that whales or vets are more likely to have champed by releasing skins for the character than change it's stats or powers if "equipped". Stuff like say a White Phoenix of the Crown skin for Phoenix, Nomad Steve Rogers for Civil War Captain America, or King of the Dead Black Panther, New Shiny Ironman Armor, Superior Spider-Man Doc Ock, etc ad infinitum. They could tweak it to change how events work to give it more of an advantage. Heck, they could start running 5* PvP without loaners with awesome prizes, to reward those who've spent so much. Lots of options available to work with what is already there without putting the "end game" totally out of reach of the critically important new players.

Felessa

Adding one more vote to the "No" crowd. I really hope it never happens.

TimGunn

another idea would be to collapse the tiers.  Original Black Widow and her tier become 1 stars.  Scarlet Witch and her tier become 2 stars (max level 94, 144).  Shuri and her tier become 3 stars (pvp centered here, max level 166 and 266).  And Gambit and his tier become 4 stars (max level 270 and 370, majority of new characters released here).  Then slowly introduce a new tier which has a max level of 450 and 550.  

Can keep odds/token/rewards structure the same.  Would be exciting to finish out the currently classic legends much easier (goblin, OML, etc.).  Also exciting to use some of the huge pool of old-4 stars regularly in PVP.  

shardwick

You can have 6s after I get a date with Candice Swanepoel.

Ebichu

it took me over 120 days to get my first 5* cover.. meanwhile when I started pvp with my not even champion 2* I had to deal with roster with a 5* here and there, one cover mostly of course but still, impossible to beat due to the hp and the match damage..
now imagine with a 6* lucker, a single match with a 6* would kill any 1 and 2* of course, but also seriously damage a 3*, making those 3 ranks mostly useless, only 4*+ could do anything, so yeah as a new player trust me I don't wanna deal with that **** anytime soon
sure I'm going to 4* slowly now but think about the newcomers

although there are things to do to make 4* more meaningful for older players, like lock some events within different level.. you can even make it pvp AND pve, limited to 4 stars, or 5, or whatever
one good pvp event was the one with every character to max level (forgot the name), it was fun, we could mix a juggernaut with a 4* and so on, making new combos possible instead of the old boring storm/mag, or IF/cage, medusa/carnage etc, new strategies can emerge and it's overall fun, without handicaping the new players too much as well

so yeah 6 stars aren't a solution, just more problems, although fixing the match up, the mmr and the way events are run that's a true thing to think about

Orion

You can’t have a 6* tier without a lot more 5*s and the 5*s have to be way easier to get.  I’d rather they start making more 5*s and less 4.*s although that will make it more problematic to cover a 5* before it rotates out of Latest.

mohio

Orion said:

You can’t have a 6* tier without a lot more 5*s and the 5*s have to be way easier to get.  I’d rather they start making more 5*s and less 4.*s although that will make it more problematic to cover a 5* before it rotates out of Latest.

That's easy to fix though, if the current rates are "correct". If you double the rate of release of 5s, then just double the rate of drawing a 5 from the token. If it currently takes ~18 weeks to cover a latest 5*, make the pull rate 30% and it will only take 9 weeks on average. Release 2 5s for every 4 and the rotation will take half as long, evening up your chances. And if they want to keep the length of time in tokens, leave that doubled rate and double the amount of 5s in the token to 6. 

658

NeonBlue said:

6* would be catering almost exclusively to whales. Do you remember when SS came out and it manhandled the top 4* team at the time by itself? 6* would be exponentially worse following that trend. How would 95% of the playerbase even contend?

When the sea caters exclusively to its biggest whales, no other fish can hope to survive. 

A 6* tier catered exclusively to whales would be the only way it would be ok with me.  If it cost say 60,000 cp (on average) and 20 million iso to level, so they end up being vanity pieces that only the true super whales could acquire anytime soon, then those players could happily pump cash into the game without ruining the balance.  

sambrookjm

658 said:

NeonBlue said:

6* would be catering almost exclusively to whales. Do you remember when SS came out and it manhandled the top 4* team at the time by itself? 6* would be exponentially worse following that trend. How would 95% of the playerbase even contend?

When the sea caters exclusively to its biggest whales, no other fish can hope to survive. 

A 6* tier catered exclusively to whales would be the only way it would be ok with me.  If it cost say 60,000 cp (on average) and 20 million iso to level, so they end up being vanity pieces that only the true super whales could acquire anytime soon, then those players could happily pump cash into the game without ruining the balance.  

without ruining the balance...until MMR starts matching them up with people who don't have them.

I get that new content is the easiest way to grow the game.  However, when there's almost no chance of fully covering 75% of the characters in the character level that the metagame is based upon within a year, it is problematic.  My son has been playing for a little over a year, and the 4-star he has with the most covers is Nightcawler with 10.

Maybe have a "Classic" four-star character token to help newer players fill out that tier? 10 CP gets you a random cover of the non-new dozen four stars?

Jexman

Nthing the point that the 5 star tier is still too useless to think about another tier. They've never adapted the game to let you level your 5 stars without ruining your PVP, and they show no inclination to fix that. So the 5 star tier is a waste for most players. Why go further then?

Qubort

CenturyChild said:

I think an easier solution maybe would be to just work on evening out the tiers overall, make a few new 3* characters, maybe some more 2* too? That would maybe throw some balance out of whack in that farms for those tiers might suddenly be more efficient than the devs intend, or maybe they don't care about that, and maybe they're completely done working on those tiers, I have no clue. That's just what I'd like to see.

Even if they don't touch 2* anymore (which is reasonable, I'm sure there are reasons not to) I'd really appreciate it if they'd take a minute to catch the 3* tier up with the 4* one. I think balance is the key rather than just endlessly adding new tiers. There are definitely enough marvel characters that they could just work on 3*, 4* and 5* forever and ever and never run out of characters. 

I wish they never made another 3 or 2 star. Just a waste of a roster spot. Also, extends the amount of catch up a new player would have.

NeonBlue

Qubort said:

CenturyChild said:

I think an easier solution maybe would be to just work on evening out the tiers overall, make a few new 3* characters, maybe some more 2* too? That would maybe throw some balance out of whack in that farms for those tiers might suddenly be more efficient than the devs intend, or maybe they don't care about that, and maybe they're completely done working on those tiers, I have no clue. That's just what I'd like to see.

Even if they don't touch 2* anymore (which is reasonable, I'm sure there are reasons not to) I'd really appreciate it if they'd take a minute to catch the 3* tier up with the 4* one. I think balance is the key rather than just endlessly adding new tiers. There are definitely enough marvel characters that they could just work on 3*, 4* and 5* forever and ever and never run out of characters. 

I wish they never made another 3 or 2 star. Just a waste of a roster spot. Also, extends the amount of catch up a new player would have.

But if they made another 3* as impactful as Strange, it could really help out 3* players. That's what 3* Gambit did recently, until they destroyed him.

But yeah, 2* and 3* are not going to help 4* players or above.

hunky_funky

aesthetocyst said:
They are still adding 3*s, so no worries there.

Hope next one would be worth it. Recent 3* are just champ rewards bags. Although, my guilty pleasure sometimes use 3* Starlord. Like his green cascade.

Daredevil217

Qubort said:

CenturyChild said:

I think an easier solution maybe would be to just work on evening out the tiers overall, make a few new 3* characters, maybe some more 2* too? That would maybe throw some balance out of whack in that farms for those tiers might suddenly be more efficient than the devs intend, or maybe they don't care about that, and maybe they're completely done working on those tiers, I have no clue. That's just what I'd like to see.

Even if they don't touch 2* anymore (which is reasonable, I'm sure there are reasons not to) I'd really appreciate it if they'd take a minute to catch the 3* tier up with the 4* one. I think balance is the key rather than just endlessly adding new tiers. There are definitely enough marvel characters that they could just work on 3*, 4* and 5* forever and ever and never run out of characters. 

I wish they never made another 3 or 2 star. Just a waste of a roster spot. Also, extends the amount of catch up a new player would have.

Only true if they release them alongside 4s and 5s which has typically been the case.  If they did standalone releases in place of a 4 or 5 it would actually give us all a break and make it less difficult to catch up as they would be much less of an iso investment.

Something to consider.

mohio

aesthetocyst said:

NeonBlue said:  2* and 3* are not going to help 4* players or above.

Everything helps. The wider the base, the more flows to the top. I'm a 5* player and I say gimme a few more 2s.

I'm not trying to say it's wrong to want more 2s (or 3s), but so long as the base resource flow rate is constant there's really no benefit to having more "feeders" unless you specifically want to target certain characters to develop (which I could see people wanting now that some 4s feed into 5s). It's going to be the same 13 covers to champ and 50/100 covers to max that it would be for any other character, the names are essentially meaningless when you just consider them as additional resource churning. If anything it's worse to have more since you're probably more likely to get to a point where you have weird builds and have to roster dupes or sell covers because you didn't get the right distribution in time to champion the character and save the covers. 

PenniesForEveryone

aesthetocyst said:

mohio said:

aesthetocyst said:

NeonBlue said:  2* and 3* are not going to help 4* players or above.

Everything helps. The wider the base, the more flows to the top. I'm a 5* player and I say gimme a few more 2s.

 so long as the base resource flow rate is constant 

It isn't. It increases as your roster grows, and what's generally available in-game also increases over time. You can win more stuff and there's more stuff to win.

More importantly, the more characters in a tier, the longer it takes to flip that tier, and the richer each cycle is.

With the recent changes making all farming iso positive, and all the old fogeys getting over the hump on slots, there's no reason for vets to not want more characters.

Other than general cantankerousness.

I don't think this is true.  We only benefit from more 2s if the number of 2* covers earned increases as well. If you added up all the 2* champ rewards and divided by 50 you would get an "average champ reward/2* cover drawn" that wouldn't change if you added even 100 new 2* characters. Assuming they all feed different 3s you just slow down that process, which in turn slows down the 4*/5* process too.

 Not that I'm necessarily against new 2s or even 1s, but dilution is bad in nearly all forms, and is best countered by increasing total rewards earned to compensate for reductions in the chance to earn specific rewards.

NeonBlue

aesthetocyst said:

NeonBlue said:  2* and 3* are not going to help 4* players or above.

Everything helps. The wider the base, the more flows to the top. I'm a 5* player and I say gimme a few more 2s.

Thing is they can't overdue without overburdening the new players. Those early tiers have to  be completable in short time frame without requiring spending.

But, say, 2 more 1*s, 4 more 2*s, wouldn't make the current challenges to new players that much worse.

They are still adding 3*s, so no worries there.

A player in the next tier rarely has a need to use a character from the previous tier other than required characters. Of course there are exceptions (like a 4* player maybe using 3* Strange for goons). If you have champed 4*s, you'd only ever use 2* for the novelty of it.

Adding a new 3* wouldn't do much for a developed 5* player other than forcing another required character. It would just be another collector's item. 

Dormammu

A 4-star (or 5-star) player would/could use a new 2-star for...

1) DDQ Under the Sea
2) DDQ 3rd Time's the Charm
3) DDQ Behemoth Burrito
4) PvE Entry node
5) PvE Required node
6) PvP Combined Arms
7) PvP Balance of Power

I don't think it would be at all unreasonable to add a 2-star to MPQ.

NeonBlue

Dormammu said:

A 4-star (or 5-star) player would/could use a new 2-star for...

1) DDQ Under the Sea
2) DDQ 3rd Time's the Charm
3) DDQ Behemoth Burrito
4) PvE Entry node
5) PvE Required node
6) PvP Combined Arms
7) PvP Balance of Power

I don't think it would be at all unreasonable to add a 2-star to MPQ.

1. Required
2. Required
3. Required
4. Required
5. Required (says it in the name)
6. Required
7. Good point

Aside from BoP, you would only use it if the game said "you must use a x*" In those cases, you either have no choice, or have to choose against other 2*. A new 2*'s impact would be pretty inconsequential as even when they're required, they often just get carried by the other two members (with the exception of 1 and 2)

Quebbster

NeonBlue said:

aesthetocyst said:

NeonBlue said:  2* and 3* are not going to help 4* players or above.

Everything helps. The wider the base, the more flows to the top. I'm a 5* player and I say gimme a few more 2s.

Thing is they can't overdue without overburdening the new players. Those early tiers have to  be completable in short time frame without requiring spending.

But, say, 2 more 1*s, 4 more 2*s, wouldn't make the current challenges to new players that much worse.

They are still adding 3*s, so no worries there.

A player in the next tier rarely has a need to use a character from the previous tier other than required characters. Of course there are exceptions (like a 4* player maybe using 3* Strange for goons). If you have champed 4*s, you'd only ever use 2* for the novelty of it.

Adding a new 3* wouldn't do much for a developed 5* player other than forcing another required character. It would just be another collector's item. 

...and Another set of champion rewards. And Another character to try out in the DDQ. I am not opposed to either.