Trying to correct an assumptio Ixalan seems to support

FindingHeart8

Mainloop25 said:

The comments about Bolas should be their own thread so hopefully the mods will split this thread.

I have no problem with Bolas in his current form, really. So I'm not really for any sort of nerf. He doesn't get that dangerous until his first ability is maxed out. You don't see him at level 54+ unless you're at a high level yourself. And Bolas takes so long to level, with not-so-great mana gains until he's about level 30 or so. So I feel like his great first ability is a reward for leveling him up that high. 

no problem with bolas in his current form?

and you're not the slightest bit biased here?

*looks at the flying critter in your profile picture*

Kinesia

As far as I'm concerned Bolas is (and now forever will be) part of the current standard environment that makes things hostile to creature strategies, ESPECIALLY creature strategies where you need to build creatures up or play things with high costs.

If Ixalan could only be played solo I'd be complaining more about white and blue getting one sided board wipes but in actual play Bolas is currently coming up as an issue more often. Sure that might change over time, but that's where things are right now.

Kinesia

[Apparently my extremely poor typing has been upsetting people lately. It's annoying me too, I used to painstakingly go back and fix everything, but now the mistakes are wearing camouflage and sneaking past me. Not good camouflage either, I'm very tired!]

Mainloop25

FindingHeart8 said:

Mainloop25 said:

The comments about Bolas should be their own thread so hopefully the mods will split this thread.

I have no problem with Bolas in his current form, really. So I'm not really for any sort of nerf. He doesn't get that dangerous until his first ability is maxed out. You don't see him at level 54+ unless you're at a high level yourself. And Bolas takes so long to level, with not-so-great mana gains until he's about level 30 or so. So I feel like his great first ability is a reward for leveling him up that high. 

no problem with bolas in his current form?

and you're not the slightest bit biased here?

*looks at the flying critter in your profile picture*

Haha. I think Omniscience badly needs a nerf. But since I own it  I'm gonna keep abusing the heck out of it until they fix it.

And I've lost a lot of battles using Bolas. His ability can be outpaced by aggro decks, creatureless, hexproof, etc. If they aren't going to "fix" Koth, they shouldn't touch Bolas either. 

Gunmix25

Enygma6 said:

Back to the original topic of Ixalan cards in need of a rethink:  
Sunbird’s Invocation.  Unless I haven’t figured out how to use it properly.  It starts with 2 shields, and triggers itself when cast.  So at best you get one extra use out of it.  20 mana spent to maybe cast 20 mana or less worth of other cards.

Your post caught my eye.  I use this card frequently inconjunction with HUF.

Anyways,  it starts with 3 shield and it does not trigger itself upon entry unless it is reinforcing itself, then yes it does. I usually line this card up for casting right before HUF fires off. The higher cost cards pull my Rishkar's expertise from the deck and adds to the mana needed to cast cards I pull back into my hand from Seasons past and so on. It's a great card,  but very situational. 

FindingHeart8

Kinesia said:

[Apparently my extremely poor typing has been upsetting people lately. It's annoying me too, I used to painstakingly go back and fix everything, but now the mistakes are wearing camouflage and sneaking past me. Not good camouflage either, I'm very tired!]

my sympathy, friend.  Usually I'm sipping some coffee when reading through these forums, otherwise I wouldn't be nearly this energetic.

morgue427

i am sorry but learning how to fight a specific pw is as important and winning i think, the ai will target a 6/6 zombie over baral everytime , sowhen facing a bolas with mine i use the zombie spell then  baral lose the zombie and cast another baral stays safe pumping up my next zombie spell, problem solved.(as if the cards will ever cooperate with this lol)

FindingHeart8

I seem to have trouble getting my standard Bolas to be anything but slow-competitive.  Perhaps I just don't have the right cards yet..

Mburn7

FindingHeart8 said:

I seem to have trouble getting my standard Bolas to be anything but slow-competitive.  Perhaps I just don't have the right cards yet..

I have the same issue, most likely since my Bolas is still lvl 40 and as such has so-so mana gains (and his first is more or less useless)

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

I seem to have trouble getting my standard Bolas to be anything but slow-competitive.  Perhaps I just don't have the right cards yet..

I have the same issue, most likely since my Bolas is still lvl 40 and as such has so-so mana gains (and his first is more or less useless)

well you at least have a good excuse lol.  Mine is level 60, but I don't have the epic mythic cards that make him a powerhouse (ex: Hour of Devastation).  Yeah his first ability can pick off a creature or two, but I struggle with him when handling a creature-swarm deck.

Kinesia

Anyway, I do agree that I _partly_ strayed from the original point.
Reiterating.

A) A few supports were problems, NOT all, most don't need the same fix, most can be balanced with number of shields and mana alone.

A few creatures were problems, NOT all, most are destroyed or stolen or bounced and need to be able to be replayed cheaply, especially to make tribes work (Things that make creatures more robust are hexproof or grave tricks, or special abilities that make them worth more than one creature in the first place)

C) B is only true because spells and supports and PW abilities kill creatures and are usually cheaper and more card efficient than the creatures themselves. Repeatable destruction (such as on PWs) is especially problematic.

Short term A and B need fixing, long term C needs adjusting lest we get to a point where the 3 creature slots are left empty most of the time (Which we are already far closer to than when I started).

Mainloop25

I think i said it before, but I believe that the better solution would be to make more creatures hexproof or spell resistant in some way, such as glyph keeper. I guess I wouldn't mind bringing the cost of creatures down a bit more as well. 

FindingHeart8

Mainloop25 said:

I think i said it before, but I believe that the better solution would be to make more creatures hexproof or spell resistant in some way, such as glyph keeper. I guess I wouldn't mind bringing the cost of creatures down a bit more as well. 

what?  31 CMC not low enough for you? lol

Kinesia

@Mainloop25 Hexproof just moves the goalposts though, unless it ends up on _everything_ then creatures as a basic concept are broken.
Creatures without hexproof should be playable, common creatures should be playable (though not ideal).

If we have to make everything hexproof to make ccreatures viable then that's just a broken environment that has crept in weird directions and (as we've already seen) they just start giving us more stuff to deal with hexproof and that _adds_ to the broken burden of removal since they all also work on normal innocent creatures.

Summoning creatures is crucial to the concept of the game and shouldn't be being edged out because other strategies are too powerful.


I would like to see the stats on most/least used cards at platinum level and see the few lonely creatures like Shefet and Avaricious that make it in the top list.

QuiksilverHg

Mentioned this a few times already, but going to say it again.

Creature destruction would be a lot less powerful if we could have more than 3 creatures on the board at one time.

As is, targeted creature discussion removes at least 1/3 of your attack capability unless creatureless or hexproof or something as posted above.

morgue427

yes having more than 3 creatures could be helpful but it would ultimately just lead to decks stacked with all the best cheap creatures to have massive green weenie decks because they couldnt be killed fast enough to keep them in check. hmm no thanks get death of a thousand cuts enough from the creatureless decks

Mburn7

I agree with @morgue427

The issue isn't the creature slot limit (although having a 4th would not be the worst thing in the world).

The issue is the overabundance of cheap removal spells.  Back in Origins/Zendikar there were very few kill spells, and the non-black ones were pretty expensive.  Nowadays every color has <10 mana removal, and multicolored walkers (which also didn't exist back in the day) only exacerbate the problem.

If every kill spell got +5 to cost, I think a lot of these issues would go away (and there would be rioting all over the place)

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

I agree with @morgue427

The issue isn't the creature slot limit (although having a 4th would not be the worst thing in the world).

The issue is the overabundance of cheap removal spells.  Back in Origins/Zendikar there were very few kill spells, and the non-black ones were pretty expensive.  Nowadays every color has <10 mana removal, and multicolored walkers (which also didn't exist back in the day) only exacerbate the problem.

If every kill spell got +5 to cost, I think a lot of these issues would go away (and there would be rioting all over the place)

well spoken, especially that last sentence lol.

wereotter

Mburn7 said:

I agree with @morgue427

The issue isn't the creature slot limit (although having a 4th would not be the worst thing in the world).

The issue is the overabundance of cheap removal spells.  Back in Origins/Zendikar there were very few kill spells, and the non-black ones were pretty expensive.  Nowadays every color has <10 mana removal, and multicolored walkers (which also didn't exist back in the day) only exacerbate the problem.

If every kill spell got +5 to cost, I think a lot of these issues would go away (and there would be rioting all over the place)

Looking at the way the story decks are crafted, if the cost for creature removal were increased, or if the method of killing creatures with spells just removed a reinforcement level up until killing them, then I think you'd see a shift in the meta where creatures with berserker/vigilance/defender/reach are considered an asset rather than a liability.

Corn_Noodles

Because of their access to different colors of cards, I've always argued that multi-color planeswalkers should have their mana gains reduced. Why do they have bonuses to matches? Their bonus should lie in their ability to use more colors. There's hardly ever a good reason to use a mono-colored planeswalker, and that's too bad.