PVP question. What does this mean and what should I do?

Dragon_Nexus

DieMyDarling said:

Wow i have been playing this game for three years and I have never thought about any of this at all. I just see if they have points worth taking and then take them. That’s all. I didn’t realize there were grills and cupcakes and slices and traps. 

I don't feel there are strict dos and don't with the PvP, but I think you should just not take the mick.

It took a PvP where I got hit three times in a row by the same person to make me actually look at the user names of the people I was attacking and try not to hit them too often in a single run.

No reason why I shouldn't, but then there's also no reason why you can't just take all of the complimentary mints as you leave the restaurant. It's just...not done, ya know?

WelcomeDeath

Quebbster said:

It's called a grill team. High-level players put them out before shielding to give others an easy fight so they can gain points faster. With out of game communication you can chain grills and gain in points really fast, which is the reason for the high scores at the top of the scoreboard.
Anyway, it's not a trap, so you shouldn't feel you can't hit it. However, you should not hit it immediately - give the player who put the grill out time to shield so they don't lose points over their kindness.

There were other comments made along the same lines, that people grilling are doing it to help other people out and blah blah blah blah blah.  People that are utilizing this exploit (cause that's what it is, an exploit) are doing so because they want to score really high so they and their friends take all the top spots in pvp.
  They do it so their hops are faster cause they're just hitting cakes.  They don' do it to help you.  Any crumbs you happen to find are just lucky coincidence, but they use the bounces from people not in their check rooms and lie to themselves (and you!) in acting like they're some benevolent point gods raining points down for you sorry people at the bottom.     Hit it.  Wait or don't wait. It doesn't matter. They're onlky hitting cupcakes anyway so your hit won't land, they'l already be done

aesthetocyst

Dragon_Nexus said:

Every now and then in PvP I come across a player worth 75 points or around there with a base level required 3*, a boosted 4* and a mediocre 5*.

It's an easy win, but if you look at their roster they have a max level required 3* and much better champed 5*s.

I'm unsure about these guys. On the one hand I'm thinking "IT'S A TRAP!" and they're going to murder me with retalliations. But on the other hand I'm thinking "Are they just being generous and I should hit them?"

My usual strategy is to skip them entirely, but last night I was close to my goal so I hit him once and immediately shielded. I just wanna make sure I'm not stepping on toes here.

Are you finding these targets while shielded and planning a hop, or while you are climbing / pushing for progressions? Or are you playing idly and staying unshielded?

If playing idly, then sure, q targets on each node, when yo have a great target on a node, work the q on the next node. When "fully loaded", go back to the first node and start taking them down. Take your time, if you can.

If climbing, urgency is key. As such, anything goes. Hit'em right away. Hit targets multiple times. We all know the limitations of the qs being served in MPQ. Take what you can get, chop-chop. Particularly when over your float point, when you know you may be hit at any time. Not much good finding a great q, only to have a retal erase it.

If shielded and planning a hop, here you can take your time. Find targets after shielding, hit them hours later when you hop (if confident their scores will stay or rise, a/o you have the ability to recheck their scores later). Or, look for targets off and on, but at least 15-30min before hopping. By the time you have hopped, they should be "safe".

In the end, if you ding someone, it happens, and anyone who's exposed should be expecting to draw fire.

Quebbster

Welcome Death said:

Quebbster said:

It's called a grill team. High-level players put them out before shielding to give others an easy fight so they can gain points faster. With out of game communication you can chain grills and gain in points really fast, which is the reason for the high scores at the top of the scoreboard.
Anyway, it's not a trap, so you shouldn't feel you can't hit it. However, you should not hit it immediately - give the player who put the grill out time to shield so they don't lose points over their kindness.

There were other comments made along the same lines, that people grilling are doing it to help other people out and blah blah blah blah blah.  People that are utilizing this exploit (cause that's what it is, an exploit) are doing so because they want to score really high so they and their friends take all the top spots in pvp.
  They do it so their hops are faster cause they're just hitting cakes.  They don' do it to help you.  Any crumbs you happen to find are just lucky coincidence, but they use the bounces from people not in their check rooms and lie to themselves (and you!) in acting like they're some benevolent point gods raining points down for you sorry people at the bottom.     Hit it.  Wait or don't wait. It doesn't matter. They're onlky hitting cupcakes anyway so your hit won't land, they'l already be done

You are pretty much repeating what I said but with a different tone. Granted, you are also Spelling out a few things that was mostly subtext in my post.

Daiches

These threads are always good to remind people of Wheaton's Law.

acescracked

Welcome Death said:..
  People that are utilizing this exploit (cause that's what it is, an exploit) ...

How are grills or not using characters you think players should use an exploit?

Characters in players rosters aren't restricted other than the required one. So how by someone selecting anything other than Gambit & Bolt an exploit?

If someone using two lower tier 5*, say banner & Goblin doing an exploit?

Obviously grills are there to allow easier wins but it's not an exploit. It just doesn't jive with how some people think the game should be played. Players should be able to field any team they want to.

WelcomeDeath

acescracked said:

Welcome Death said:..
  People that are utilizing this exploit (cause that's what it is, an exploit) ...

How are grills or not using characters you think players should use an exploit?

Characters in players rosters aren't restricted other than the required one. So how by someone selecting anything other than Gambit & Bolt an exploit?

If someone using two lower tier 5*, say banner & Goblin doing an exploit?

Obviously grills are there to allow easier wins but it's not an exploit. It just doesn't jive with how some people think the game should be played. Players should be able to field any team they want to.

If you're using characters at a similar level or that just have better synergy or whatever, that's different.  Banner and goblin champed?  Odd, but ok.  Loaner / random garbage unboosted 4 / random garbage 5?  You're not doing that to change teams up or for different synergy.  You're doing that to game the system and get better rank. Suggesting otherwise is disingenuous at best.

LifeofAgony

Grills are an exploit.  It’s a way to create an easier team to allow people to hit them faster and have less risk of losing points from people not in the clubhouse rooms of veiled benevolent point creation.  Before “grills” it was cupcakes. You’ll hear people tell you it’s to help the smaller rosters get better rewards, but as was talked about in the other thread, the people scoring 2-4K+ are basically hitting nothing but grill teams from as low as 800 on.  And these are fully developed 5* rosters, not “small” rosters.

So as was originally asked, hit them, continue to hit them, as many times as possible.

Daiches

Wheaton's Law seems unknown. Too bad I can't spell it out.

Quebbster

Daiches said:

Wheaton's Law seems unknown. Too bad I can't spell it out.

You got me to Google it, it wasn't exactly hard to find if you want to.

Spudgutter

acescracked said:

Welcome Death said:..
  People that are utilizing this exploit (cause that's what it is, an exploit) ...

How are grills or not using characters you think players should use an exploit?

Characters in players rosters aren't restricted other than the required one. So how by someone selecting anything other than Gambit & Bolt an exploit?

If someone using two lower tier 5*, say banner & Goblin doing an exploit?

Obviously grills are there to allow easier wins but it's not an exploit. It just doesn't jive with how some people think the game should be played. Players should be able to field any team they want to.

Because grills are an evolution of cupcakes, which some people seem to forget. 

The devs made an adjustment to the game to minimize, or the least make it harder, for someone to leave out an easily beaten team.  

Now, the argument can be made that because you CAN choose and win with a lesser team, im saying we just shouldn't act like we don't know the reasons behind it.

Look at PVE for example.  People (read:high end players) hate tappers, because they are taking advantage of a loophole in the game.  Threads are created for every pve with a strategy to tap, to try to get the devs to enforce their stated objective 10 months ago to get rid of tapping.  

Everything you said could be applied to tappers, and i have said as much in those threads. And every time i do, they bring up that the devs specifically addressed it 10 months ago, as proof against it.  Well, the devs addressed cupcakes as well. 

Now, i am not against grills or tappers, i dont do either one.  I just find it a little hypocritical. 

LifeofAgony

Daiches said:

Wheaton's Law seems unknown. Too bad I can't spell it out.

Wheaton’s Law only applies if you subscribe to this made up etiquette that was created by the clubhouse line point chasers.

Its player versus player.  Hit people, hit them as much as you want, there’s no law or rules to be applied other than play as you like and don’t let people shame you because you don’t want to play by a fictitious set of rules.

Daiches

LifeofAgony said:

Daiches said:

Wheaton's Law seems unknown. Too bad I can't spell it out.

Wheaton’s Law only applies if you subscribe to this made up etiquette that was created by the clubhouse line point chasers.

Its player versus player.  Hit people, hit them as much as you want, there’s no law or rules to be applied other than play as you like and don’t let people shame you because you don’t want to play by a fictitious set of rules.

Aren't you doing the shaming and the name calling right now though? And trying to get others riled up with one viewpoint? As these threads always boil down to?
Just explain to people what ways of playing exist and let them decide what they like. It's not hard to do. Why would your preferred method of playing be any more valid than someone else's? There's plenty of people that like to play in a group and hang out and chat and score at the same time. Just like there also people that like to play in a group and call out and chat and deny score at the same time. Unfortunately one style conflicts with the other, and with the inherent trolling and rudeness associated with this conflict, it always ends poorly in these discussions. And that's why we will leave it at that. Nothing good or constructive ever comes out these arguments.

LifeofAgony

My point is the same;  calling grills anything other than an exploit is a lie.  Trying to then force people to respect some faux rule set to allow people to do this for others is bunk.  Play how you choose, but trying to stop people from hitting those who utilize an exploit is just silly.

If people want to play that way, that’s fine, but don’t try to color it any other way than it’s an exploit.  If people find out who “aren’t supposed to” don’t try to them convince them it’s kind to not hit them.  You’re exploiting, take the risk on the chin.  Otherwise, send the OP a pm and invite them to partake in the cabal.

shartattack

I would just point out that the players in this forum advocating hitting grills right away are known snipers, or others known for not playing well with others.  They at least have developed 5 star rosters to back it up somewhat.  If that is not you, and you don't want to draw the ire of alliances for sniping, and running the risk of getting doubled and tripled constantly, it is better to wait 5 minutes upon finding a grill.

acescracked

Again, you can call it anything but an exploit.

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches,"

Grills are none of that. Just setting a team from your roster.

What about trapcakes in lightning rounds? Those have been used since about day 1 to get easy matches for the sweet iso reward per match. Where's the loathing and posts about that being an exploit?  C'mon, it's because there is a personal vendetta against grills in PvP. Would be refreshing to get honesty here, we'll see. Have you used a trapcake in lightning rounds? Are you an exploiter?

Jarvind

Jesus, steaks or grills or cakes or crème brûlées or whatever they're called now might not "exploit" an actual error in the game code, but they're obviously going against the intended gameplay in order to artificially generate more points for those in on the scheme. Nitpicking the definition of "exploit" is just a desperate attempt to deflect attention from blatant cheesing.

I'm not laboring under the delusion that my saying this will stop anyone from doing it, but good lord, stop lying to yourself about it. This is like the MPQ version of trickle down economics.

Spudgutter

acescracked said:

Again, you can call it anything but an exploit.

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches,"

Grills are none of that. Just setting a team from your roster?

Semantics and attitude aside, he has a point.  Just look at another response in this thread. Hit the wrong people at the wrong time, pay the price.  That attitude has been around for all of my 1400+ days.  The sad fact is that type of attitude helps dissuade too many people from playing high level pvp.  

Look at the wins based season.  This was before Gambolt, and I was just starting to scratch at 1200 after hitting 1000 per event for a season.  During wins based, I was hitting 1600+ after 32 wins.  Sucked, because I wasn't getting the CP, but there were more points because people were playing without fear of reprisal!

Like it or hate it, pvp is broken and this argument will never die.  Even if they "fix" pvp, people will not be happy, and other people will find a workaround, or exploit as some would call it, to maintain their status quo.

tiomono

Daiches said:

Wheaton's Law seems unknown. Too bad I can't spell it out.

It's basically "dont be a jerk". 

Which I feel could apply to both sides of the discussion.

In game I feel if you see a beatable team worth good points you should hit it. That is not being a jerk. Hitting it immediately or waiting a bit also does not make you a jerk. Expecting everyone in the game to know unwritten rules and abide by them or get hit by several people hard and repeatedly, seems a little jerkish to me.

Daiches

tiomono said:

Daiches said:

Wheaton's Law seems unknown. Too bad I can't spell it out.

It's basically "dont be a jerk". 

Which I feel could apply to both sides of the discussion.

In game I feel if you see a beatable team worth good points you should hit it. That is not being a jerk. Hitting it immediately or waiting a bit also does not make you a jerk. Expecting everyone in the game to know unwritten rules and abide by them or get hit by several people hard and repeatedly, seems a little jerkish to me.

I was referring to the hate campaign against the cooperative style of play in this and similar threads by advocates of the other playstyle. Like what you are doing here. 
Play the game. Don't hate or troll on those that play the way they prefer.