Most Broken Card

24

Comments

  • Matthew
    Matthew Posts: 605 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
    There are plenty of different methods for dealing with Gaea's Revenge in Standard. Here are a few, in no particular order:

    • Farm//Market
    • Gideon's Defeat
    • Claustrophobia + targeted removal
    • Desert's Hold + targeted removal
    • Hixus, Prison Warden + targeted removal
    • Suppression Bonds + targeted removal
    • Ruin Rats
    • Banewhip Punisher
    • Underhanded Designs
    • Eliminate the Competition
    • Anything with Berserker
    • Imaginary Threats + targeted removal
    • Non-targeting burn cards, such as Hour of Devastation, or the red Hellion from the Hour of Devastation set
    • Floodwaters
    • Djeru's Renunciation + targeted removal
    • Displacement Wave
    • Doomfall
    • Bontu's Last Reckoning
    • Grind//Dust
    • Insidious Will
    • Literally any discard-centric strategy

    I'll admit that some of these cards are hard to come by. But since many of them aren't, I think that if you're really having trouble dealing with GR, you either don't have a deep enough collection (understandable, and you also have my sympathies) or you just aren't building an effective enough deck or prioritizing your hand well enough.





  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    A lot of them also require that Gaea's Revenge be in the first creature slot, which is part of the point I was making as to why it's very hard to deal with for it's power. That's all true of any hexproof creature, but this is the only hexproof with such high attack, and the only one that I regularly see in PvP
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd argue that instead of reducing the power of older cards, we should just make more cards that interact with them (example: card that removes hexproof from Gaea's Revenge so it can be killed).

    There are still overpowered AI bosses with 500hp and abilities that will decimate your board state (ex: Bolas).  An overpowered card can be all that works for a chance at victory.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gaea revenge was overpowered, but now power creep has caught up and it has peers of its power level.

    To argue that it isn't insanely powerful and its appearance doesn't cause instant panic is to not have faced it enough. 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    In terms of balancing older cards I'd argue that the biggest first step needs to be cost balance that _includes_ the unused commons and uncommons rather than focussing on the big problems. If all the "really bad" cards were usable maybe the "really good" cards would be less of a problem.
  • Thuran
    Thuran Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
    New perspectives....
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    Gaeas revenge vanishes harmlessly to Gideons defeat or Farm.  Surprised that wasn't mentioned yet.
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    James13 said:
    Gaeas revenge vanishes harmlessly to Gideons defeat or Farm.  Surprised that wasn't mentioned yet.
    They did. To which I countered that this, and many other options people listed only work if Gaea's Revenge is the first creature. If it's not, you have to remove every other creature below it to make that happen. Also you have to be playing blue/white to make that happen. Just because there's a way to deal with it doesn't mean it's not grossly over powered.

    That argument applies to everything on this list owtherwuse. "It dies to removal"
  • blacklotus
    blacklotus Posts: 589 Critical Contributor
    personally, i rather Octagon buffs up those useless Commons and Uncommons cards Hibernum created enmassed first instead of nerfing the few OP MP and mythic cards Hibernum created. 

    The former allows new players to have good cards to play with in their limited collection. The latter just takes the thrill of pulling a powerful Mythic/MP card away from this game, making any long term commitment/cash spending to this game from new comers harder.

    p.s. i still don't have deploy, olivia, pig, drowner, etc.
    I am still actively playing to try to hopefully get them.

    If these "OP" cards are nerfed, i can see myself cutting down on my gametime with mtgpq.

    I agree with fiddler: OP ultra-rare cards are the endgame motivation for many cash paying players. remove them and i can see the game dying off.

    Also, i disagree GR is OP. the original version at 9/6 for 23 mana was weak. at 16/9, paying 23 mana to play it makes it worthwhile. Otherwise, there are too many cheaper 8/8 critters worth playing more. 

    As for countering GR and hexproofs, any decent well-built deck should be able to stop them or counter their damage. Hint: cheap blue imaginary threat + a 2nd cheap kill/bounce/disable card counters hexproofs very well.

    If GR is not in the first slot to be disabled by Claustrophobia/DesertHold/SuppressionBonds, one can always kill whatever is occupying the first slot and bump GR down to first. 
  • blacklotus
    blacklotus Posts: 589 Critical Contributor

    Thuran said:
    New perspectives....
    Thuran said:
    New perspectives....

    which doesn't have any serious impact when it is poorly used by AI most of the time. Every time AI plays NP, i know i have an easy opponent because firstly AI is stupid, and secondly, it usually means it's a cycling deck which the ai cannot play well at all.

    Honestly, the only time mtgpq AI opponent pose any threat is because of a very lucky sequence of gem cascade that allows the ai to play a very lucky selection of good cards arranged nicely in its hand.

    Too many times i see the AI plays Omniscience followed by multiple Riskhar Expertise and wasting all that mana because its hand is empty. 
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gaea's revenge is powerful. There are plenty of ways to deal with it. They may require it be be disabled or be in the first spot.. but that's the point isn't it? That's the appeal of the card. Why does everyone want another vanilla creature. There are already plenty of them around.
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    GR is a single very powerful card for a pretty high price.  If Olivia were an 8/8 flyer with haste and first strike, people would still play her all the time.  But deploy the gatewatch is over the top.
  • Volrak
    Volrak Posts: 732 Critical Contributor

    Fiddler said:

    Hmmm, I have four of these cards in one of my favorite Kiora decks.

    Why exactly are we balancing? I can see other apps (Skyrim, Hearthstone, Clash Royale, whatever) need balance because the PvP is true PvP. We don't have that, and build decks to hit objectives against an AI. Seeking those 'unbalanced' cards are incentives for me to play, and pay, more. Flatten the field and I'll just go spend my money elsewhere.

    When cycling first arrived, the impact was loss of variety in PvP games.  Because it was such a strong strategy, relative to the alternatives, it was played almost universally.  Better balance would have avoided that impact.  I agree though that these kind of impacts seem to fade at least a little over time, and while I'd support tweaking the most egregious broken cards, Oktagon should be careful not to go overboard.

    spadpl said:
    Feel like Riskshar's Expertise is not so popular like last two cards.
    Because it's a spell, the AI keeps it at the bottom of its hand.  So we rarely see it played in PvP by opponents, even though I guess close to 100% of players who own it put it in their green decks because it's such incredible value.  (And of course when AI does play it, it does nothing, because its hand is usually close to empty.)
  • theyrejustelves
    theyrejustelves Posts: 34 Just Dropped In
    I voted other with Omniscience & HUF in mind.
    They already Nerfed Baral, so he is not as OP as he was.

    Olivia, The Pig, GR & Ulrich are very good cards, but as others have stated it just means that I tweak my deck strategy before heading into a legacy event.

    I'm not too upset with the level of the cards that are out there, I would just like to get them.
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    have to admit sand worm convergence is a bit undercosted considering the color which is known for gem changers. The only saving grace is that is is a support so it is relatively easy to deal with in most deck
  • blacklotus
    blacklotus Posts: 589 Critical Contributor
    morgue427 said:
    have to admit sand worm convergence is a bit undercosted considering the color which is known for gem changers. The only saving grace is that is is a support so it is relatively easy to deal with in most deck
    being a green support, and usually paired with its own gem changer cards in its deck usually mean the AI blows away its own sandwurm support after casting it. happened so many times that i hardly find it difficult to face a samdwurm convergence deck. 

    also i always pack support destruction cards in my decks, and my scions from beyond if possible. 

    recurring blocking mana generating critters win over recurring big fat wurms with no trample ability. 
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm a bit confused as why New Perspectives is even being considered by some players as overpowered.  Yeah, with the right other cards you (and only you) can go infinite, but the process is long and tedious, and only fits as a good last-resort technique to taking on overpowered bosses.  Like stated above, the AI can't abuse it...and I'm very thankful they can't use cycling.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    Another downside to diminishing the power of any of the old cards is that it promotes a negative position to players.  When can a card be nerfed?  How can players be confident that their future good cards won't be nerfed?  Could Octagon make OP cards for standard only to nerf them when they go to legacy (or if enough players complain about them?).  It's just a bad door to open, especially with inevitable power creep.
  • Fiddler
    Fiddler Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    Cute paraphrase. But since that particular deck you hate is only valid for legacy events, its probably not locking too many people out of the top ranks. I suppose I could go into all my decks and use new combos with only common/uncommon cards. Then enter them into all the events running. Just to keep the F2P players happy. Gosh, I guess I will have to forgo booster crafting too when it is introduced, since my massive library is also totally unfair. Darn, I was hoping to collect some of the 130 cards I'm missing. 
  • Krishna
    Krishna Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
    I feel like since I have a great (standard) card collection, I can handle a Decimator or Olivia or Emrakul, etc. But when a person has ways to cheat several into play, then it's too much. Deploy is the only card in the survey that guaranteed does that, so it gets my vote. Other notable cards that accomplish this are HUF (paired with mana ramp like Rishkar's and draw/ fetch spells), Omniscience, Pyromancer's goggles (not OP like the others).

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