My points-based progression woes

2

Comments

  • Kevmcg
    Kevmcg Posts: 122 Tile Toppler
    I will echo the advice to get into a top100 or better PVP alliance.  Best way to learn how to hit a higher score AND do it efficiently.  Spending 225-300 hp with 2-3 hops to hit 900 allows you to save hp for roster spots.

    Many are against the wins based system, not because of the concept of getting a cover at 40 wins. One main complaint is the win system only gives the 15 cp reward for those that finish in the Top10.  This is needlessly restrictive as many players with good rosters get the 1200 reward and then are OK with relaxing their play and not fighting for placement. CP is the lifeblood for advancing a good roster and limiting it to only 10 per room at the end of an event makes competition much tougher and requires far more resources - hp for hops and time invested in playing and collecting qs.

    Also, a more fair target for the top progress reward (cover or cp) would be about 30 wins. I conservatively earn 40 points per win on a climb. That translates to 1200 / 40 = 30 wins. The structure that requires 40 wins for a cover is the same effort to score 1600 for a cover that under point-based structure comes at 900.
  • NotBAMF
    NotBAMF Posts: 408 Mover and Shaker
    I've been super busy with Black Friday goings on today, so I haven't had the time to address anyone directly here, so I wanted to do that for the folks that either asked a specific question or were extra helpful. Sorry for the delay in responding:

    OJSP: As of this typing, it is 9pm EST, and my slice still has two hours left. So I'm not sure which it was initially, but it's obviously one of the last ones!

    Wymtime: MMR is one of those acronyms I see thrown around all the time, and whereas I have a general idea of what it means (the determination of who you'll see or not see and why), I have little idea of how it works. But thanks for throwing out that info!

    Tiggida: Good info on the leaderboard check. I'll keep that in mind!

    granne: Thanks for the advice!

    _M4ru_: My Vulture is actually naturally 229 and 3/4/4. I hadn't updated Gamependium since I dumped some iso into it.

    CNash: Hey, I don't disagree. :smile: I usually do the 575 bail, but I thought I'd share my experience from my second time shield-hopping. My first time went absolutely fine, but it may have been an aberration (also, it was the Shield Sim, so it may have just been a different beast)

    aa25: Thanks, man! 

    Daredevil: Honestly? I am okay-ish about the Iso and the HP "costs". It's the pure stress the system caused me that wore me down, heh. If you offered me a Vulture cover for, say, ~1300 HP and 500-1000 Iso, I'd be happy with that. And that's what I paid, so it works well. I just hate the stress of it all. I was pulling my hair out at points here. 

    Kevinmcg: I always tried my best to empathize over the loss of the 15 CP reward. That DID stink that it got pulled away. They need to come up with a hybrid system, really. Right now, both systems have far too many negatives and detractors. I was personally fine at 40 wins for the 4* cover because I found out during last season that I got 40 wins WAY before I got 900 points, but that seems different from person-to-person. 

    Everyone else: not trying to leave out anyone (other than the one or two people just here to bait and insult), but I really do appreciate all the replies and took them all to heart both today and in any future PVP events where I feel the 900 points is a necessity for me. Thank you very much!
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    @NotBAMF

    Congrats on your 4* cover. The advice in this thread from the vets is really great. It can certainly be frustrating when you first start out to consistently hit 900. It took me 4-5 seasons to get it down and hit it consistently without stress (and sometimes there still is). Once you learn the strategy it really isn't all that hard.

    1. Learn your float point, climb to 700 and see where you fall. That's your float point, it will vary depending on your boosted characters that week

    2. Learn when to climb and shield, as people noted this game is played worldwide so there aren't really any off times. However, I've found a period in s1 between 12-24 hours left where less people seem to be playing or maybe more are so there are lots of targets. Either way, that's when I climb to my first shield. With a 4* roster it was closer to the 24 mark, you can't be out with 8 or less hours left as a 4* roster, it's just not worth it. As a 5* roster I can be out during the last 8 hours, so to conserve hp I wait until closer to the 12 mark to climb to my first shield.

    3. While shielded queue 3 high point targets, you might not hit all 3 on your hop, but queue them anyway.

    4. Hop time, break your shield. Fight the easiest of your 3 first, as fast as you can. Goes well, take the second. If those both go well, take the third. This takes practice and pay attention to your time. Don't be unshielded for more than 5-10 minutes. If you come out of a battle and took a hit, shield immediately. Also, use boosts to speed your battles.

    5. Rinse and repeat until you get to your target score. I like to shield out when I hit my target score for placement, 9xx is usually good for t25 in s1.

    As a 4* roster you should probably hit your first shield around the 22-18 hour mark, use an 8 hour (150 hp). Then use a 3 hour (75 hp) shield around the 16-12 hour mark, if your not at your target score yet. Then, finish up at the 10-14 hour mark. You should be at your target score by then, shield out with a 24 hour (300 hp) at your discretion. All in all, costs a total of 525 hp, but you earned 150 back from progression and placement (t25 and t50 both get 50 hp). You'll need to be earning hp from Story to stay positive. But, once you develop into a 5* roster you can survive on just the hp you earn in Versus.

    Hope this helps and good luck in future events!!!!

  • spiderpool
    spiderpool Posts: 76 Match Maker
    edited November 2017
    CNash said:
    This is why reverting wins-based entirely made no sense to me. If all you care about is progression, you could've had that 4-star with zero stress, zero HP spent and hprobably in a lot less time spent playing the game. Why on earth would people want such an obviously broken system back?
    Um, maybe people want it because it works way better for them,  like me and all the people who raged against it when it first came out.   I'm a 4* player with most 4* champed and my highest at 314 right now. I also have a job and a family and don't have a huge amount of time to play this game.

     Under points system I can fight to about 600 the first day float,  fight to 850 in the last day and sheild, and then get my last 50 points in the last 8 hours and spend a 8hr sheild. I get the 4* cover , everything before it,  and usually place to 25 or even ten, but at least top 50. I'm taking in more HP for free than I'm spending,  and I don't even play much daily. 

    Under wins I would play to about 900 points and still only have about 15 to 20 wins and still need 20 more for the 4* cover.  I would try to do more but just didn't have the time.  I would place maybe top 50 but mostly just top 100. I was getting much less prizes for much more work and I missed out on the season 15 cp for the first time in like a year and a half. 

    Just because win based works for you doesn't mean it's best for everyone.  It was misery for me and many others on this board,  mostly people like me who have been playing this game since almost day 1.  Many of us were complaining about win based pvp and saying that this new system doesn't work for us,  many were considering quiting entirely. It Doesn't really make sense to alienate your loyal,  long time customers to help out newbies who might not even stick with the game. 

    Just because it was zero stress for you,  doesn't mean it wasn't horribly stressful for many others. 
  • Zappa
    Zappa Posts: 102 Tile Toppler
    As a 4* player, there are some easy steps to getting 900 in 20-25 matches with one or two shields.
    Amount of shields and time varies depending on boosted heroes. I play in shard 3 for further reference
    For example I have a champed vulture and hit 900 in 22 matches with a single 3 hour shield.
    48 hours out, play to your float point or just under - I play to 300 or 400. This saves me time and health packs later, and gives me a feel for the best/fastest team. Takes about 6-8 matches.

    Between 28-20 hours I play to jump as high as I can, usually between 775-875 depending on my boosted team. If I have double champed 4*s with a high level champ event character, I'll push for 850 without worries. Sometimes you get lucky with a synergistic team and/or lucky matches and just break 900. Most of the time the boosteds don't complement or your 3* event champ is lackluster or you have only 1 boosted 4*. Aim for 830, shield once.
    If you get hit once in the 700s, accept it and keep pushing. Getting hit more than that means your team is weak and you should try and hit 775 then shield. The more champed 4*s, the more likely you can stay out longer.

    I don't even bother queueing up matches, because oftentimes they fluctuate in points. I have had juicy teams turn into stinkers 24 hours out and then you have wasted a few minutes and that shield. Spend some iso on skips and start picking at 38+ teams, and once you hit the 850s, you'll be grinding 30+ teams. With a weak team, I would shield at 860-875, and with a really weak team I might double shield at 830 and 870 (though I haven't had to in a few seasons). 

    Much like in pve, pvp is all about speed. If you can eyeball matches faster or have a synergistic team, you will spend less time on matches and less shields. Honestly a mid 4* player (20-25 champs) should never have a problem reaching 900.

    Don't fall prey to the "one last hit" syndrome. It's as bad here as it is in dark souls.

    Last note: the only problem with this method is that you need to drop large amounts of hp if you want to keep those points for placement. Since I've largely given up on caring about that, I provide a nice point boost to my fellow climbers and still end up in the top 100 most of the time. On the other hand, I now accumulate HP at a much faster rate than when I dropped 375+ hp on every pvp event for 3 seasons.
  • Tiggida
    Tiggida Posts: 64 Match Maker
    Glad to hear you made it to 900. Hopefully the advice here helps you get there with waaaaayyy less effort going forward. 
  • Tiggida
    Tiggida Posts: 64 Match Maker
    edited November 2017
    CNash said:
    This is why reverting wins-based entirely made no sense to me. If all you care about is progression, you could've had that 4-star with zero stress, zero HP spent and probably in a lot less time spent playing the game. Why on earth would people want such an obviously broken system back?
    You answered your own question in the bolded part (at least partly) of why the devs wanted the "broken" system back. 
  • knifedge
    knifedge Posts: 9 Just Dropped In
    @NotBAMF - congrats on getting 900!  There is great advice in this thread.  You should be able to duplicate your climb to 900 with less effort now.  Best of luck!

    knifedge
    PaxBromana
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    So if you know when to float, when things flip, coordinate retals, have hp for shields, and can play and want to play at just specific times you can do well at the point system. If you just want to play sporadically for a few extra rewards you are SOL in the point system. 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    beyonderbub said:
    Considering your ham handed climb and almosr purposeful self sabotage experience and dubbing that as the pvp norm is the biggest disservice to yourself and anyone reading this thread for advice on climbing. Please refrain from your obvious spreading of misinformation to suit whatever agenda you have. Anyone can purposely play this game wrong and post some spurious rant that describes literally what no one else with that amount of time into the game experiences because you know, common sense. People have posted great advice on multiple threads about this same subject re: hopping and experience at 800-900 point reward thresholds. There should be a point where these posts should be classified as auto-trolls and just moderated away. 
    Umm... whatever...  This is the PvP norm for many people.
  • Tiggida
    Tiggida Posts: 64 Match Maker
    Wumpushunter said:
    So if you know when to float, when things flip, coordinate retals, have hp for shields, and can play and want to play at just specific times you can do well at the point system. If you just want to play sporadically for a few extra rewards you are SOL in the point system. 
    I know, I can't imagine why anyone would want to have any sort of strategy involved in a game that has "puzzle" right in its title??? Lol.
  • Qubort
    Qubort Posts: 203 Tile Toppler

    From 794 you only needed two 35point wins and a 36.

    Get those teams qued loooong before you're ready to hop.

    If you notice you can't find a winnable team....stop looking for a bit. If you throw up a 3 hr shield and look every half hour, you'll find 3 teams worth the points and beatable. Unless you have a strong roster in your MMR, you'll need to plan a hop that high up. If you're having trouble not hitting those 3 nodes fast enough, utilize boosts and team ups.

  • Qubort
    Qubort Posts: 203 Tile Toppler
    smkspy said:
    Dartmaster01 said:
    If you were over 800 points, this should have been easy...That's it, never stay unshielded above 750 for longer than 5-8 minutes.
    Such a great system to have back...remember folks don't stay exposed and, you know, actually play matches to earn the cover. Spend artificial currency that you have to purchase with real currency, THEN fight two matches and protect yourself. Rinse and repeat til you've spend $500 for 15 cp.

    Hero Points aren't that hard to come by. You don't have to spend real currency to get enough hero points for two or three shields an event.
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    Tiggida said:
    Wumpushunter said:
    So if you know when to float, when things flip, coordinate retals, have hp for shields, and can play and want to play at just specific times you can do well at the point system. If you just want to play sporadically for a few extra rewards you are SOL in the point system. 
    I know, I can't imagine why anyone would want to have any sort of strategy involved in a game that has "puzzle" right in its title??? Lol.
    The puzzle in puzzle quest is the match 3 game play not idiotic pvp rules. I played all the other puzzle quest games and they don't include limited game play.
  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    You probably got a false sense of how easy it is to hop from your experience in the shield sim. There’s a lot of good advice here, it can seem daunting at first but it’s all about being disciplined in the way you play.

    Know where you are in relation to your shield cool down timers. Play early in the event, it’s a shark tank with less than 3 hours left. Learn your float point, that can save you a lot of HP in shields. Don’t stay exposed for long, there is always someone with a better roster than you and the more points you have the bigger the target on your back. Don’t fall for the ‘just one more match’ fallacy. Learn who the movers and shakers are so you can save them in your queue if you see them out. Don’t be afraid to use boosts, you want to finish your matches quickly. This one is so important I’m going to say it again: don’t stay unshielded for long, start at one match per hop, two may be safe if you’re fast but you may need to experiment to figure out your tolerance. Finally, keep plugging away, it takes some getting used to but it’s not rocket science.

    You could try and find a friendly battle chat. It works for some people but. It for everyone. If you know when to look for people who are hopping you can queue them up for later.

    Good luck and try to enjoy it! It’s only a game after all. 
  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    tchipley said:
    Last note. I found out about this game from a friends referral. Nothing in the game itself taught me how to excel at points based PVP. I only got lucky to find the forum and read about it. Reading about it and trying it did not make the game fun for me. And the way folks here attack folks for voicing their displeasure by beating them over the head with the "common sense" stick is discouraging. 
    It's not really common sense as the mechanics are unintuitive to someone knew to PvP, but once the mechanics are explained the reasoning for why certain things happens should become clear.  Once you realize how important it is to hop quickly it should be "common sense" that you wouldn't want to waste time queuing targets while you are unshielded if you can do that before you unshield without risking point loss.

    The one big takeaway I didn't see mentioned was how many times OP was able to climb to ~800 relatively easily.  Going forward I wouldn't shield any lower than 800.  Start early and try to climb, if you don't make it - don't waste a shield, just drop and try again later.  Once you find that magical/lucky time where you are able to hit 800 - THEN drop your first shield and just look for three 38 point targets to put you over 900 on a hop.  If you can't get through 3 fights on one hop then hop to 870 or so and just look for one more 30 pt target to put you over the edge.  I see too many people wasting shields trying to protect points that they could easily win back without much effort on their next session.

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