My points-based progression woes

NotBAMF
NotBAMF Posts: 408 Mover and Shaker
in MPQ General Discussion
Somebody seriously needs to tell me what I did wrong here, because this points-based progression is KILLING ME.

So in the Junkyard Wars event, I played until I got my 575 points and bailed as usual. However, I noticed Vulture was the 4* prize at 900 points, and thought, "All right, it's time to try for this mother". And, to be fair, I had successfully used just two simple shield hops this past week to get to 2000 on the Shield Simulator for the Nightcrawler cover. Hopped at 1620, hopped at 1830, and then I got my Kurt. So how hard can this be?

So I played myself back up from the 440 that I had fallen to (after bailing at 575) back up to the 600's and shielded yesterday morning.

In the late afternoon, I played up to 794 points and shielded again. 794. Remember that. It will be important later. 

At 1-friggin'-AM last night (EST), I killed my shield and played a bit. By the time I was done, I had taken a bunch of L's, but also made a bit of progress. Got up to 811 and shielded. No big deal. I'll finish it off in the morning.

Well I woke up today sick at 6am, but since I am up... kill that should and hop back in! It's 6am EST, how bad can it be?

Got on and fought just an eff-ton of battles. Battle battle battle. All the damn game is queue-ing up for me is unwinnable battles against people with teams all in the late 300's and low 400's, but I pay the skip tax a bunch and hop around trying to find what I can. I am pretty sure I hit the same three-four people a bunch between last night and this morning, but they are all the game is giving me! I try to avoid them as much as I can, but I can look at so many 380 Xavier/300 Vulture/380 Nova teams.

I get up to 884 points in about 15 minutes! But at that point,  all I am queued are unwinnable battles or teams worth 10 points. So I take on a 10 point battle so I don't lose time skipping. And win.

And come out to 850 points.

Okay.

Take on another battle to try to regain some footing against a 20 point team. And win.

And come out to 770 points.

One more battle to get back to 795 and I re-shield because I am a glutton for punishment and I will play later so that in a span of an hour or so I can see if I can drop back under 700, I guess. 

 What am I supposed to be doing? At this point, I'm down 1050 HP on shields (300 x 3 + 150) AND a whole bunch of Iso for skipping, and I'm literally one point better than I was yesterday afternoon.

By the time I'm in the mid-800's, I start getting nothing in my sights other than monster teams or teams that aren't worth any points. And even during what HAS to be non-peak hours, I'm getting clobbered for points.

What the heck? 
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Comments

  • metallion
    metallion Posts: 276 Mover and Shaker
    Exactly as Bow said, you need to learn when to shield and when it's ok to fight. IMO you were already considered very lucky to not get hit in the 15 minutes you took to get to 884, that's the point where I would have shielded. Secondly the first hit you took is the first sign for you to shield, as you are now visible to the public and more hits would be incoming, going for more fights after the first hit is just asking for trouble
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    NotBAMF said:
    By the time I'm in the mid-800's, I start getting nothing in my sights other than monster teams or teams that aren't worth any points. And even during what HAS to be non-peak hours, I'm getting clobbered for points.

    Another thing to consider: If you cannot find any teams of comparable strength Worth a decent amount of Points (40 or more), that means you are now a very attractive target to everyone below you. That means it is a good time to shield and try to find better targets (they do pop up from time to time), not skip around and give everyone else more time to hit you.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards
    One of the biggest difference between the 4* tier and the 5* tier is how high players go in PVP.  A big group of * players in certain slices will score 2K+ which means if you are just going fo 1200 points in progression you can find 75 point matches close to 1200.
    4* players go to 900 and shield so when you get close to 900 points it becomes extremely difficult to find matches worth points and is why you need to shield close to 900 find a match worth enough points to get you above 900 then do that one match.

    it used to be much different before MMR was changed.  5* players would put out 2* teams that 4* players could find and use to get to 1200 points.  When this changed most 4* player stopped climbing to 1200 and no have issues at 900.  There is some good advice above so I will wish you luck in your efforts to 900.
  • Ruinate
    Ruinate Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
    As Bow said go out with a plan.  Sounds like you never had one

    As Quebbster said know that you are an attractive target.  You were vulnerable for too long.

    When the beatable teams are not worth good points it means you are leading the pack among the unshielded crew.  Somebody has to be the one to punch upwards if nobody else is there to do it.  You can shield and look for better targets later or you have to take on those harder teams.  It's a much better use of your time than 20 pointers.  
  • Dartmaster01
    Dartmaster01 Posts: 634 Critical Contributor
    If you were over 800 points, this should have been easy. Q two 50 point matches, use boosts or whatever it takes to get them done quickly and shield again. That's it, never stay unshielded above 750 for longer than 5-8 minutes.
  • Tiggida
    Tiggida Posts: 64 Match Maker
    edited November 2017
    Q your targets before you unshield. As soon as you start skipping during your hop you're in trouble. You should only skip while shielded. Also sounds like you should only be doing 1 or 2 matches per hop maximum. If you can get to 800 you can do it. As soon as you get to 800 shield. Then q up at least 2 50+pt targets for your hop. If you finish the fIrst match quick, go for the 2nd. If it was slow, shield up and wait for the hits to come in before you hop again to hit the 2nd q. Each hop should be 5-7 mins max. Any longer than that and you're most likely gonna get hit. Even big rosters get hit when they're out longer than that. 

    Another small bit of advice, right after you shield click on the leaderboard to ping the server so that your shield registers right away. It helps to prevent delayed hits.
  • Dartmaster01
    Dartmaster01 Posts: 634 Critical Contributor
    smkspy said:
    Dartmaster01 said:
    If you were over 800 points, this should have been easy...That's it, never stay unshielded above 750 for longer than 5-8 minutes.
    Such a great system to have back...remember folks don't stay exposed and, you know, actually play matches to earn the cover. Spend artificial currency that you have to purchase with real currency, THEN fight two matches and protect yourself. Rinse and repeat til you've spend $500 for 15 cp.
    It literally doesn't cost anything. I have not spent real money on this game in over a year. And he's not trying to get the 15cp, my advice was to reach 900. One 8h and one 3h shield is all it takes, if you can't come up with 250hp every three days, perhaps that's the problem you should be looking into.
  • granne
    granne Posts: 852 Critical Contributor
    Dramatic hyperbole is really not helpful in a thread where someone asks for advice.

    ~~~

    Finding your float point is important. That's the point total where you can hang out without taking many (or any) hits. Think of it as a staging point where you can sit, unshielded, while your healthpacks recharge and you do other stuff. This will vary depending on who you have boosted and the time left in the event, but if you're a 3-4* transitioner, it's usually in the 500s.

    Queue some high value targets from there, try for things in the 50 or higher range, if you can, and hit as many as you can as quickly as you can. This should get you to 700+, preferably higher. Shield and wait for people who had you queued to bounce off. Then look for more high-value targets and make a run for 900. If you're in the 800s and you start to take hits, shield again and wait a while.

    Like most things, it gets easier with practice, and as your roster develops your float point will get higher, and you'll be able to get to 900 before your first shield.
  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    As people said above me. A few more here and there tips,

    1. One common mistake I see over and over is 'I-need-one-more-win-to-hit-X-pts' syndrome. No, don't do that. Plan ahead, don't extend staying unshielded to rush for anything.

    2. Time of days doesn't matter when you hop. (It does matter when you climb, i.e. going from 0 to something below 700-ish). What matters is how much time you have left in the slide.

    3. Do not hop during the last three hours of the event. Go and start early.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    smkspy said:
    Dartmaster01 said:
    If you were over 800 points, this should have been easy...That's it, never stay unshielded above 750 for longer than 5-8 minutes.
    Such a great system to have back...remember folks don't stay exposed and, you know, actually play matches to earn the cover. Spend artificial currency that you have to purchase with real currency, THEN fight two matches and protect yourself. Rinse and repeat til you've spend $500 for 15 cp.
    More of, remember folks, don't flail around with no idea what you are doing, ask for advice and *then* flail around. :) 

    Before scl levels existed and when pve rewards were full of minuscule felines, I built my roster as an f2p player through pvp, mostly by trial and error. In fact I built 2 rosters f2p through pvp - my alt has all 3*s champed except el3ktra and gamb3t, though no finished 4*s because I quit using it for anything but bracket scouting. 

    First figure out the cheapest way to get the highest possible score. If you can get 600-800 before using one shield you can get a decent amount of hp via progression, placement, champ rewards. That score will qualify you for a t100 or better pvp alliance. Awesome! Now pvp is hp positive and you can get better tus and pvp tips from your alliance, which makes for a better game experience. 

    Keep trying and see what works for you from there. 

  • evade420
    evade420 Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    Dunno I climbed right to 1200 no shields in s1 but I did it well before end of event  found this event easier than most .

  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    NotBAMF said:

    At 1-friggin'-AM last night (EST), I killed my shield and played a bit. By the time I was done, I had taken a bunch of L's, but also made a bit of progress. Got up to 811 and shielded. No big deal. I'll finish it off in the morning.

    Well I woke up today sick at 6am, but since I am up... kill that should and hop back in! It's 6am EST, how bad can it be?

    Just one thing to add: Just because everyone's here's communicating in English, don't assume people aren't playing this game all over the world and that there's a time when noone else is playing.

    1 AM EST -> 10 PM on the West Coast.

    6 AM EST -> 12 PM in Central Europe

  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    granne said:
    Dramatic hyperbole is really not helpful in a thread where someone asks for advice.


    Nope, but it sure is fun and brings out the stupid complexity that PvP is for a mobile game. I'm playing PvP match 3, not metal gear solid here.

    Though seemed more a rant thread than an advice thread fwiw.
  • _M4ru_
    _M4ru_ Posts: 91 Match Maker
    Also important: Your team composition

    Your Vulture is lv70 (according to your roster details in gamependium) so i assume you used a loaner most of the time and painted a big target on your back :). You have a champed Mockingbird but who was your 3rd? If it wasn't at least a buffed 3* champ then you're an even bigger target. And as mentioned before, 15 minutes above 800 with not the greatest ;) team is a huge no no. Join a top100 pvp oriented alliance, it helps.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,501 Chairperson of the Boards
    NotBAMF said:
    Somebody seriously needs to tell me what I did wrong here, because this points-based progression is KILLING ME.

    I get up to 884 points in about 15 minutes! But at that point,  all I am queued are unwinnable battles or teams worth 10 points. So I take on a 10 point battle so I don't lose time skipping. And win.

    And come out to 850 points.

    Okay.

    You described your own problem. 1. When you were skipping and only seeing 10 pt targets. That actually means you were the highest available target in the currently visible que. This means for every one playing, you were the biggest point score target available. Since your the current high point target, I would have expected alot of attacks. As a informal tip. The range of available targets should tell you your score relative to the available targets. Once you know you are the high point target, you need to shield immediately. Here is a concrete example. person 1 is 800, but the avg target score floating is only 500. Person 1 is the high point target and will get attacked first. person 2 is at 2000, but the avg target score floating is 4000. (i.e. you skip and only see 75pts) This person can float indefitely because bigger targets are available. Your problem is that you didn't accurately judge your score relative to other targets available
  • CNash
    CNash Posts: 952 Critical Contributor
    This is why reverting wins-based entirely made no sense to me. If all you care about is progression, you could've had that 4-star with zero stress, zero HP spent and probably in a lot less time spent playing the game. Why on earth would people want such an obviously broken system back?
  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    Congrats! Nicely done.

    I believe you are on the right track.

    The next step you should try is to optimize your timing. There are more or less three milestones (if your goal is to hit 900)

    1. ~600 (float target)
    2. ~800 (first shield)
    3. 900 (your goal)

    Try adjust your timing (based on how much time you have left in the slice, not you clock-time.) And don't worry, the time window is not narrow. There are a lot of room for you to do it.

    If you are not sure where to start, feel free to ask.

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