Is Balance of Power similar to the 5* slog-fest?
Comments
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The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?
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acescracked said:
The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?
I don't understand. Hence the thread. I'm trying to understand as much as I can and this is why I wondered if playing BOP would give me more insight even a little bit into what it is like to be a 5* player. It sounds like the answer to that question is all over the map. Some say yes, some say no. Each with little caveats. I don't consider myself a new player (Day 1182). And I am absolutely improving my roster with each 4* I champ! Do I want to go into 5* land? Probably not ever- and it if I do- not until they stop supporting the 4* tier regularly (like 3* now). I really like the play at this tier and do not want to have to rely on 2-3 characters every week. Sounds super boring to me, but note this was a problem before wins-based. At my tier, wins-based actually helps with that problem because before I had to use my best 2 characters every match. Defense and speed were way more important than they are now. Now I can use more creative teams and have fun with the game again!
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And what you seem to miss despite it being stated multiple times is that the only reason you were able to climb to 1200 fighting 68-75 point targets the whole way was because of collusion and point inflation - something D3 never intended. That 15 CP reward was meant as a challenging reward, not a participation trophy.acescracked said:
The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?2 -
In terms of fight length, it's comparable. 5* fights are a bit more variable since their match damage is so astronomical - I've lost my nearly-full-health characters to a single multi-crit cascade before. In BOP you don't see that as much since 4*s don't have quite the same crazy match damage even when boosted to insane levels.
In terms of difficulty, BOP is way harder. Some of the 4* characters' powers scale to completely ridiculous levels at 550. C4ge is a good example - his red will one-shot nearly anything. You've also got obnoxious combos like Gamora and R&G that are difficult normally and downright staggering when megaboosted.
The endless stream of Panthos teams in standard 5* matches, while annoying, are generally not all that difficult to beat unless you get one of the aforementioned cascades to the face.0 -
So perhaps this question should be started as a poll thread but I will ask it here first. Should PvP get rid of the 3* star requirement altogether and simply keep the boosted component to encourage certain character use or create a new mechanic where you gain more rewards for using a featured 3* or 4* character but it isn't required? It seems that some people really enjoy not having to have one member of their team pre-determined. Or is the solution to simply have events like BoP more often than once per end of season? What about a feature such as one 3* and one 4* featured in each PvP where you get 100 bonus iso for every match you win (200 if you use both) with them. The bonus iso number is always negotiable but would the idea make you consider using those characters instead of the current format?2
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What we need, and what we have needed for two years is 4* PVP.Warbringa said:So perhaps this question should be started as a poll thread but I will ask it here first. Should PvP get rid of the 3* star requirement altogether and simply keep the boosted component to encourage certain character use or create a new mechanic where you gain more rewards for using a featured 3* or 4* character but it isn't required? It seems that some people really enjoy not having to have one member of their team pre-determined. Or is the solution to simply have events like BoP more often than once per end of season? What about a feature such as one 3* and one 4* featured in each PvP where you get 100 bonus iso for every match you win (200 if you use both) with them. The bonus iso number is always negotiable but would the idea make you consider using those characters instead of the current format?
There's zero reason to have to carry deadweight 3s in every PVP.3 -
This would create massive balance problems, and thry would have been especially bad 12 months ago. 3*s boosted from 266 just barely hit the steep part of of the leveling curve. They are on par with boosted 4*s.Bowgentle said:
What we need, and what we have needed for two years is 4* PVP.Warbringa said:So perhaps this question should be started as a poll thread but I will ask it here first. Should PvP get rid of the 3* star requirement altogether and simply keep the boosted component to encourage certain character use or create a new mechanic where you gain more rewards for using a featured 3* or 4* character but it isn't required? It seems that some people really enjoy not having to have one member of their team pre-determined. Or is the solution to simply have events like BoP more often than once per end of season? What about a feature such as one 3* and one 4* featured in each PvP where you get 100 bonus iso for every match you win (200 if you use both) with them. The bonus iso number is always negotiable but would the idea make you consider using those characters instead of the current format?
There's zero reason to have to carry deadweight 3s in every PVP.
But 4*s boosted from 370 are staggeringly powerful. Way better than 5*s in all respects except match damage. With vaulting and the increase in 4* cover availability more people have high level 4*s. But it's still a small number.
I understand why demi waited. Even though it sucked.1 -
How will you ever understand if you don’t have the 5*s? BoP isn’t really a balance. It’s a gambattery grocketfest. You may climb with gambattery in pvp, but it leaves you open to hits. Grocket/ Gamora/ Medusa is a deadly combo when all are 550, but would get beat over and over in the sim.Daredevil217 said:acescracked said:
The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?
I don't understand. Hence the thread. I'm trying to understand as much as I can and this is why I wondered if playing BOP would give me more insight even a little bit into what it is like to be a 5* player. It sounds like the answer to that question is all over the map. Some say yes, some say no. Each with little caveats. I don't consider myself a new player (Day 1182). And I am absolutely improving my roster with each 4* I champ! Do I want to go into 5* land? Probably not ever- and it if I do- not until they stop supporting the 4* tier regularly (like 3* now). I really like the play at this tier and do not want to have to rely on 2-3 characters every week. Sounds super boring to me, but note this was a problem before wins-based. At my tier, wins-based actually helps with that problem because before I had to use my best 2 characters every match. Defense and speed were way more important than they are now. Now I can use more creative teams and have fun with the game again!1 -
Right, but you're in the minority and I feel the majority are critical of the win system because they are needlessly bashing their head against difficult teams for no reason. I totally get that for people going for placement especially those in 5* land that the new system is a broken mess.AlexxKats said:
Thank you master of the obvious.veneretio said:I feel like a lot of people that are critical of the Wins system haven't embraced the idea of just retreating over and over again. I find generally it's easy to get 20 wins... then I have to tank my score and do it all over again. That's the same deal with BoP.
We do that when we want to stay low to hit for 75. When not in the mood to do that, we just want to finish the game part as soon as possible, not drag this one by entering an additional 40 fights (over the 25 extra we need under the new system) in order to retreat to drop our score.
[edit: for less the rewards than we used to get last 30+ seasons also]0 -
The participation trophy was the 10CP at 575 and 99 percent of the player base loved it. Before that I saw almost no reason to play pvp. A 3 star team would have to play the shield game to even reach the 3* cover in progression rewards, with a sliver of a chance of the 4* cover at 1000 points.PenniesForEveryone said:
And what you seem to miss despite it being stated multiple times is that the only reason you were able to climb to 1200 fighting 68-75 point targets the whole way was because of collusion and point inflation - something D3 never intended. That 15 CP reward was meant as a challenging reward, not a participation trophy.acescracked said:
The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?0 -
From what I'm hearing, PVP is a 40 win grind against either high-health Gambolt or high health Panthos teams.FokaiHI said:
How will you ever understand if you don’t have the 5*s? BoP isn’t really a balance. It’s a gambattery grocketfest. You may climb with gambattery in pvp, but it leaves you open to hits. Grocket/ Gamora/ Medusa is a deadly combo when all are 550, but would get beat over and over in the sim.Daredevil217 said:acescracked said:
The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?
I don't understand. Hence the thread. I'm trying to understand as much as I can and this is why I wondered if playing BOP would give me more insight even a little bit into what it is like to be a 5* player. It sounds like the answer to that question is all over the map. Some say yes, some say no. Each with little caveats. I don't consider myself a new player (Day 1182). And I am absolutely improving my roster with each 4* I champ! Do I want to go into 5* land? Probably not ever- and it if I do- not until they stop supporting the 4* tier regularly (like 3* now). I really like the play at this tier and do not want to have to rely on 2-3 characters every week. Sounds super boring to me, but note this was a problem before wins-based. At my tier, wins-based actually helps with that problem because before I had to use my best 2 characters every match. Defense and speed were way more important than they are now. Now I can use more creative teams and have fun with the game again!
BOP is a 40 win grind against either high health Grockmora or high health Gambroken teams.
That to me seems pretty similar in terms of the experience- but not having 5* characters I thought it best to ask those who do and have experienced both.
And again, it seems like people are all over the board with regards to how similar or dissimilar the experience is (likely depending on who they have champed and how hardcore they are).
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I think BoP fights are quicker than Panthos fights just because 4* abilities have much better damage scaling, and it's a lot easier to tailor your team to directly counter whatever you are fighting against since you have 50+ characters to choose from compared to the at most what? 20? 5*s.Daredevil217 said:
From what I'm hearing, PVP is a 40 win grind against either high-health Gambolt or high health Panthos teams.FokaiHI said:
How will you ever understand if you don’t have the 5*s? BoP isn’t really a balance. It’s a gambattery grocketfest. You may climb with gambattery in pvp, but it leaves you open to hits. Grocket/ Gamora/ Medusa is a deadly combo when all are 550, but would get beat over and over in the sim.Daredevil217 said:acescracked said:
The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?
I don't understand. Hence the thread. I'm trying to understand as much as I can and this is why I wondered if playing BOP would give me more insight even a little bit into what it is like to be a 5* player. It sounds like the answer to that question is all over the map. Some say yes, some say no. Each with little caveats. I don't consider myself a new player (Day 1182). And I am absolutely improving my roster with each 4* I champ! Do I want to go into 5* land? Probably not ever- and it if I do- not until they stop supporting the 4* tier regularly (like 3* now). I really like the play at this tier and do not want to have to rely on 2-3 characters every week. Sounds super boring to me, but note this was a problem before wins-based. At my tier, wins-based actually helps with that problem because before I had to use my best 2 characters every match. Defense and speed were way more important than they are now. Now I can use more creative teams and have fun with the game again!
BOP is a 40 win grind against either high health Grockmora or high health Gambroken teams.
That to me seems pretty similar in terms of the experience- but not having 5* characters I thought it best to ask those who do and have experienced both.
And again, it seems like people are all over the board with regards to how similar or dissimilar the experience is (likely depending on who they have champed and how hardcore they are).
The other difference is the more level playing field. The 5*s that beat up on everyone else every event can now be beat by just about anyone with a handful of fully covered characters that have a bit of synergy. And with everything at 550, it's tough to grill something that's really that much quicker than a typical fight. The players that are used to holding hands and only hitting friendlies when they are shielded will struggle to have clean hops when they are getting hit by the masses all event.0 -
... or I just find having to spend 10 minutes deliberately quitting matches just so i can more easily grind out a stupid amount of matches absolutely idiotic.Vhailorx said:
That is definitely a viable strategy for the new system. But it still takes 2x as many matches as the old system. What if i just dont want to pkay that many matches?veneretio said:I feel like a lot of people that are critical of the Wins system haven't embraced the idea of just retreating over and over again. I find generally it's easy to get 20 wins... then I have to tank my score and do it all over again. That's the same deal with BoP.1 -
Bzzt, wrong!! I played S1, S3, S5 with zero coordination and sometimes never hitting a grill and getting 1200 in 20 matches. I might have to burn 4 shields instead of two.PenniesForEveryone said:
And what you seem to miss despite it being stated multiple times is that the only reason you were able to climb to 1200 fighting 68-75 point targets the whole way was because of collusion and point inflation - something D3 never intended. That 15 CP reward was meant as a challenging reward, not a participation trophy.acescracked said:
The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?
Each bracket has 500 players with multiple brackets per slice. There are far more players *not* coordinating then do.
Those slices do have different degrees of other players coordinating to generate points. But in s5 it's really limited and same result.
Used to be you built a roster over time playing pve or bought one and gradually did better in PvP. But PvP had to be changed to help those that couldn't understand that.
Win based is pure participation trophy. Points based progression you had to build a roster and play smart. I really don't see the need to build a roster now. Seriously what's the objective? It doesn't help you compete easier.5 -
Gotta catch 'em all...?Win based is pure participation trophy. Points based progression you had to build a roster and play smart. I really don't see the need to build a roster now. Seriously what's the objective? It doesn't help you compete easier.0 -
You didn't get to 1200 in S5 (or S2 for that matter) fighting 68 to 75 pt battles the whole way.acescracked said:
Bzzt, wrong!! I played S1, S3, S5 with zero coordination and sometimes never hitting a grill and getting 1200 in 20 matches. I might have to burn 4 shields instead of two.PenniesForEveryone said:
And what you seem to miss despite it being stated multiple times is that the only reason you were able to climb to 1200 fighting 68-75 point targets the whole way was because of collusion and point inflation - something D3 never intended. That 15 CP reward was meant as a challenging reward, not a participation trophy.acescracked said:
The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?
Each bracket has 500 players with multiple brackets per slice. There are far more players *not* coordinating then do.
Those slices do have different degrees of other players coordinating to generate points. But in s5 it's really limited and same result.
Used to be you built a roster over time playing pve or bought one and gradually did better in PvP. But PvP had to be changed to help those that couldn't understand that.
Win based is pure participation trophy. Points based progression you had to build a roster and play smart. I really don't see the need to build a roster now. Seriously what's the objective? It doesn't help you compete easier.
You compete for placement now for CP - that's the reward, that's the end game. The days where everyone plays nice and we all get CP are over. Good riddance.1 -
I’m at 1k now I’m s5. Hitting all teams. No coordination. To think that 5* rosters only score 1200 by holding hands and grilling is hardly the case. A lot of players can bracket snipe to top10 same as before. The player may not get 40 wins, but it’s certainly doable.1
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Yes, but at least in BOP you have a whole roster that can be used instead of a handful
also the mmr is open so you have many more targets1 -
That's not what I said at all. Under the old PvP system aces was able to get to 1200 in 21 fights at 68+ points/fight. That means he was finding target at the end with nearly 2k points. Those scores aren't achieved by "hitting all teams" with "no coordination". He was getting his progression and CP with very minimal effort thanks to the inflation that was happening.FokaiHI said:I’m at 1k now I’m s5. Hitting all teams. No coordination. To think that 5* rosters only score 1200 by holding hands and grilling is hardly the case. A lot of players can bracket snipe to top10 same as before. The player may not get 40 wins, but it’s certainly doable.0 -
I have been eating Medusa/Grocket/Gamora teams for lunch in BoP with Carnage/Medusa/Goombit. Just so easy to Carnage Scythe and Medusa purple every other round or so. I do usually take some damage but can normally keep it to one health pack per match, sometimes zero if I am lucky. It's also a pretty good defensive team, I think I have successfully defended about 20 times and only lost about 5 or 6 defenses. Currently sitting 8th right now, but I know that will change. Only teams I am avoiding are Goombit/SpiderGwen/insert character (usually Thing) right now.FokaiHI said:
How will you ever understand if you don’t have the 5*s? BoP isn’t really a balance. It’s a gambattery grocketfest. You may climb with gambattery in pvp, but it leaves you open to hits. Grocket/ Gamora/ Medusa is a deadly combo when all are 550, but would get beat over and over in the sim.Daredevil217 said:acescracked said:
The fundamental piece that players without 5*s don't understand is we will slog through fighting high health repetitive teams.Daredevil217 said:I’m just curious for those in the 5* game who say 40 wins is way too much to ask at that level, is Balance of Power similar to what you all experience? High health, endless waves of the same two teams after a certain point? Is it different in any way?
Low level 4* player here just curious.
It's the sheer number of having to do 40 of those matches for a single 4* cover and no CP. That's the problem.
Before the PvP change would be hitting 68 to 75 point targets (average of 21 matches) all the way to 1200 getting the 4* cover & 15 CP. Burning 1 to 2 shields.
And I don't understand why new players like yourself miss that point, it's been stated many times. Twice the matches for way less rewards. Also, be aware you like this system now but are you not going to try to improve your roster?
I don't understand. Hence the thread. I'm trying to understand as much as I can and this is why I wondered if playing BOP would give me more insight even a little bit into what it is like to be a 5* player. It sounds like the answer to that question is all over the map. Some say yes, some say no. Each with little caveats. I don't consider myself a new player (Day 1182). And I am absolutely improving my roster with each 4* I champ! Do I want to go into 5* land? Probably not ever- and it if I do- not until they stop supporting the 4* tier regularly (like 3* now). I really like the play at this tier and do not want to have to rely on 2-3 characters every week. Sounds super boring to me, but note this was a problem before wins-based. At my tier, wins-based actually helps with that problem because before I had to use my best 2 characters every match. Defense and speed were way more important than they are now. Now I can use more creative teams and have fun with the game again!0
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