Demiurge has unfairly forced Farming as mandatory

smkspy

Dormammu said:

Dragon_Nexus said:
Suddenly we need to start filtering ISO not just towards our 2* farms, and not just towards a 4* we want to champ, but also towards the 3* we're levelling up so covers don't go to waste and we can continue to earn XP and not say "Ugh, another 3* Thor from my 2* farm that I can't use. Shame I won't get the XP from it!"

I just can't do it. I have roughly half the 4-stars left to champ and the majority of them are at 12-13 covers, so I feel an urgent pressure to devote all my ISO towards them - especially as 14th/15th/16th covers invariably roll in (despite hoarding) and taunt me in my 14 day queue. I have one max-champed 3-star (IM40) and I've already been selling his covers rather than roster a dupe. My Doc strange is a cover away from level 266 and my 3-star roster as a whole slowly inches into the same situation, with several in the 250s and 240s.

It takes what, 125,000 ISO to champ a 3-star? For every three dupes I champed I could be champing a 4-star that will greatly improve my roster flexibility. While I understand the long-term gains of running a dupe 3-star farm it's simply too long term. While I obtain 3-star covers at a fairly decent clip, it's going to tie up waaay too much of my ISO in the immediate term to justify doing so.

So I'm going to continue selling any covers obtained for max-champed 3-stars for 500 ISO. I don't even feel bad about it. 500 ISO is a nice reward. The changes to the XP system don't motivate me to change, either. I don't rely on SHIELD level as ISO income. When I level up I get a nice windfall. Kind of like a tidy sum from tax returns - free money to invest how I choose.

Wait til you have 12 patch covers on the vine for your unchamped dupe lol. I don't like the 2 star farm and hate the idea of a 3 star farm, but at the very least, those 3s that are feed by 2s should be duped if you are two star farming already.

Edit: And after champing war machine today, the 25 xp raise for champing a 4 star is a pathetic increase given the new system.

The_A_Train

Banacek555 said:

"Buy" ... and there's the key word ... perverse in the extreme to a game that is meant to Free 2 Play at its core.

on the other - yes I have HP - but in terms of gaining same rate of 3* covers as 2* - that does not happen. 

I could have full 13 covers for 2* in less than month - absolutely no way you could do that for 3* - unless Demiurge didn't something fair and increased sources of 3* covers.

then even when you've won enough ISO to actually champion a 3* - again rate at which you will gain specific 3* character covers to level to 266 - still going to be two years.

nope - they can be silent all they like - but we all know every change - is their strategic vision - to make even more money on this Free 2 Play game

I'm pretty sure the game is meant to make money. You can play without paying, but you aren't going to play on the same level as those that do. To that end, your expectations might be a bit unreasonable if you're expecting to gain quick access to the higher echelons of advancement as a free to play player. In this case, you can't have your cake and still get to enjoy eating it. Play for free, by all means, but don't raise hell when high-end experience gains are harder to come by. 

MaskedMan

If players earn IO at the same rate as before why bother to make a change at all?  Only because they see the change as favoring them.  It certainly doesn't favor the players, they made sure of that.

Argue all you want but there is no point to this change except to change player behavior.

And it seems to have worked.  Strange Sightings seems to be so underplayed that I made the number 1 slot and I don't even know HOW to cheat.  In 4 years I have never done that even mid day.  Normally by the second day the first 5 slots are thousands of points away from what I can get with 7 clears a day.  Now with 5 clears or less I hit number 1?  I expect to drop by the end of day but I shouldn't even be in the running by normal standards.

MaskedMan

That is not the point.  Why did they think that there was a problem?  Why spend money and time moving a pea between shells instead of fixing real issues or actually developing something new? 

Obviously the developers see a worth in this change and their statement that players won't benefit because we will advance at the same rate means it wasn't done for our benefit.  As far as I know there were no players demanding that points be given out on a different basis.

Defend them all you want but their reasons for making this change are very clear.  They feel they can get players to build larger rosters and hopefully spend more doing so.  No other explanation makes sense.  That has side effects like making PvE less fun is obviously not important to them.

Kahmon

A year ago we didn't even have shield levels. Now we get an occasional iso bonus from it. If it was rolled out the way it is now, nobody would have anything to complain about.

Play the game. You'll get points, even if it's differently.

hopper1979

Why would you sell your championed 3's?  Just buy a new slot and start the 3 again you do not sell until the #2 maxed 3 is done that is how you should farm your 3's.

Quantumpanda

Jarvind said:

Buy slots. HP is easy to get without spending a dime of real money.

Oh, if only this were true.

While I agree that the drama about the XP change is Shakespearean (i.e. Much Ado About Nothing), I've been unhappy about how slowly HP accumulates compared to new characters since the day I started playing.

Advancement in the game requires earning four things: covers, Iso-8, HP, and CP. CP isn't a big deal most of the time—there really isn't anything you have to have that can be obtained only via CP. Covers also come pretty regularly, especially if you play every event (as most seem to). What's tricky about covers is getting the specific covers you're looking for.

The real bottlenecks are Iso-8 and HP. Iso-8 usually takes care of itself if you're willing to be patient. In fact, once you start championing 2-stars, you'll generally have more Iso-8 than you need until all your 2-stars are championed—more than half of the level-ups on a 2-star champion earn at least 250 Iso-8, which is more than you get out of most battles, and you don't spend Iso-8 to level up champions. I actually topped 100K Iso-8 for a while because I was getting very few 3-star covers, averaging three to four a week, which doesn't lead to a lot of leveling. Of course, now that all my 2-stars are championed and I'm building up my 3-stars, I'm Iso-8-poor again, but that's no big because it's easy to earn.

HP, however, is a completely different ballgame, and is totally out of balance. The more slots in your roster, the more HP it costs to get more. The cost of slots starts at, IIRC, 100 HP, and goes up by 50 every few slots you add. (What I've read here implies that it tops out at 1000 HP, but I don't know if that's official.) So you're spending three figures or more in HP each time you recruit a new character. Earned and awarded HP, on the other hand, is normally in two figures—I think I may have gotten as much as 250 once—and granted maybe once in ten opportunities, if that often.

My roster currently has 84 characters in it, and new slots cost me 1000 HP. I don't think I could carve out enough time in the day to earn HP from playing fast enough to keep up with the rate I get new characters to recruit—and that's without ever buying a single token (with real money or in-game points). So I've spent more real money than I care to admit on HP packs. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I was getting sufficient entertainment value from the game—I've spent far more money on stuff that's been far less entertaining or important—but if I hadn't spent the money, I'd surely have gotten fed up with how little progress I was making and stopped playing months ago.

So please spill: what are your secret ways of getting sufficient HP without spending money?

Kahmon

Vip gives 6 or 700 every 28 days. It also enables intercepts, which while minor at usually 10-25 add up pretty fast.
10 a day from DDQ. 300 a week from pvp progression. 350 most weeks from pve progression.

Plus any more from placements and champ rewards which are tougher to quantify due to inconsistancy.
I usually place top 50 which is good for 100 a day.

jredd

Quantumpanda said:

Jarvind said:

Buy slots. HP is easy to get without spending a dime of real money.

Oh, if only this were true.

While I agree that the drama about the XP change is Shakespearean (i.e. Much Ado About Nothing), I've been unhappy about how slowly HP accumulates compared to new characters since the day I started playing.

Advancement in the game requires earning four things: covers, Iso-8, HP, and CP. CP isn't a big deal most of the time—there really isn't anything you have to have that can be obtained only via CP. Covers also come pretty regularly, especially if you play every event (as most seem to). What's tricky about covers is getting the specific covers you're looking for.

The real bottlenecks are Iso-8 and HP. Iso-8 usually takes care of itself if you're willing to be patient. In fact, once you start championing 2-stars, you'll generally have more Iso-8 than you need until all your 2-stars are championed—more than half of the level-ups on a 2-star champion earn at least 250 Iso-8, which is more than you get out of most battles, and you don't spend Iso-8 to level up champions. I actually topped 100K Iso-8 for a while because I was getting very few 3-star covers, averaging three to four a week, which doesn't lead to a lot of leveling. Of course, now that all my 2-stars are championed and I'm building up my 3-stars, I'm Iso-8-poor again, but that's no big because it's easy to earn.

HP, however, is a completely different ballgame, and is totally out of balance. The more slots in your roster, the more HP it costs to get more. The cost of slots starts at, IIRC, 100 HP, and goes up by 50 every few slots you add. (What I've read here implies that it tops out at 1000 HP, but I don't know if that's official.) So you're spending three figures or more in HP each time you recruit a new character. Earned and awarded HP, on the other hand, is normally in two figures—I think I may have gotten as much as 250 once—and granted maybe once in ten opportunities, if that often.

My roster currently has 84 characters in it, and new slots cost me 1000 HP. I don't think I could carve out enough time in the day to earn HP from playing fast enough to keep up with the rate I get new characters to recruit—and that's without ever buying a single token (with real money or in-game points). So I've spent more real money than I care to admit on HP packs. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I was getting sufficient entertainment value from the game—I've spent far more money on stuff that's been far less entertaining or important—but if I hadn't spent the money, I'd surely have gotten fed up with how little progress I was making and stopped playing months ago.

So please spill: what are your secret ways of getting sufficient HP without spending money?

play ddq, pvp and pve...

i'm sitting on 60K hp right now. i spend 3$ per month to get bonus rewards. i'm on day 1090. there's not really anything worth spending it on except roster slots. don't need shields to hit progression in pvp. any token/vault 'deals' that use hp aren't worth it. especially because you're gonna pull a 2* anyways. you get out what you put into this game. if you're not going full progression in pvp/pve, you're not going to get the maximum returns.

Daredevil217

Quantumpanda said:

Jarvind said:

Buy slots. HP is easy to get without spending a dime of real money.

Oh, if only this were true.

While I agree that the drama about the XP change is Shakespearean (i.e. Much Ado About Nothing), I've been unhappy about how slowly HP accumulates compared to new characters since the day I started playing.

Advancement in the game requires earning four things: covers, Iso-8, HP, and CP. CP isn't a big deal most of the time—there really isn't anything you have to have that can be obtained only via CP. Covers also come pretty regularly, especially if you play every event (as most seem to). What's tricky about covers is getting the specific covers you're looking for.

The real bottlenecks are Iso-8 and HP. Iso-8 usually takes care of itself if you're willing to be patient. In fact, once you start championing 2-stars, you'll generally have more Iso-8 than you need until all your 2-stars are championed—more than half of the level-ups on a 2-star champion earn at least 250 Iso-8, which is more than you get out of most battles, and you don't spend Iso-8 to level up champions. I actually topped 100K Iso-8 for a while because I was getting very few 3-star covers, averaging three to four a week, which doesn't lead to a lot of leveling. Of course, now that all my 2-stars are championed and I'm building up my 3-stars, I'm Iso-8-poor again, but that's no big because it's easy to earn.

HP, however, is a completely different ballgame, and is totally out of balance. The more slots in your roster, the more HP it costs to get more. The cost of slots starts at, IIRC, 100 HP, and goes up by 50 every few slots you add. (What I've read here implies that it tops out at 1000 HP, but I don't know if that's official.) So you're spending three figures or more in HP each time you recruit a new character. Earned and awarded HP, on the other hand, is normally in two figures—I think I may have gotten as much as 250 once—and granted maybe once in ten opportunities, if that often.

My roster currently has 84 characters in it, and new slots cost me 1000 HP. I don't think I could carve out enough time in the day to earn HP from playing fast enough to keep up with the rate I get new characters to recruit—and that's without ever buying a single token (with real money or in-game points). So I've spent more real money than I care to admit on HP packs. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I was getting sufficient entertainment value from the game—I've spent far more money on stuff that's been far less entertaining or important—but if I hadn't spent the money, I'd surely have gotten fed up with how little progress I was making and stopped playing months ago.

So please spill: what are your secret ways of getting sufficient HP without spending money?

Gave this an “insightful” because I think vets forget what it is like at your stage of the game. My ex started a new account recently and her bottleneck was absolutely HP. She was able to amass over a million iso but was hoarding tokens because she didn’t have the slots to cover all the 3s she was getting. So you are correct that at your stage of the game, dupe spots for farms will seem like a waste. 

I can tell you it does get better. I’ve spent all of $4 on this game and currently have around 18,000 HP sitting there. The biggest reason is once you roster every character you only need to keep up with current releases and dupes for your farm and it’s very easy to stay ahead of the release schedule. You no longer have to spend on shields excessively with wins-based so pretty much all your HP should be going into slots. Avoid vaults and even 100 HP deals. What good is an awesome cover if you can’t roster it? Most of my HP probably comes from champ rewards (so... farming ironically).

Just so you're aware, the bottlenecks will absolutely change for you as you progress and if you keep at it, you will eventually hit a groove where you’re HP positive. 

As you transition to the 4* game iso becomes the sole bottleneck. And again it’s about staying ahead of the release schedule.  The question is the same: Can I champ/roster someone faster than new characters are released?  If yes then you are making progress and will eventually catch up. I have in my little MPQ document on my phone the percentage of the 4* tier champed. Every time I champ someone new, or there is a new release, I update it. So while each champ feels like a drop in a bucket, over time I can see I’m making progress on the whole (went from sub-50% of the tier champed when I started to 66% currently).

You could do the same for each time you roster a 3 or 4. Using percentages over total number rostered let’s you see your progress even though it doesn’t always feel like you are making it when new characters are released so often. 

5* tier the bottleneck shifts to CP as it’s the only way to get 5* covers. So be aware of that now as you look ahead. I’m currently in that 4* transition and don’t think I ever want to go to 5, but if I do, I’m aware of the scarce resource and already have 5.5k banked. Not spending on 4* covers and stuff like that because it’s such an important resource in the next tier.