Demiurge has unfairly forced Farming as mandatory

13

Comments

  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
    I don't get it though. Even if lets say your rate was indeed slower than before, what's the fuss about ? Beyong a certain rank, there is no requirement for a better player rank, and the reward is a couple of ISO that most players can make during 1-2 days, anyway... I mean if you are going for rank 130, you most likely make more than 60k ISO in 2 days. So again.. don't really get why people think this progression is so important in the first place. You gain nothing other than ISO from this player rank. If it were more important to certain events or mission, that would be a thing. But it is not. 
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    So is 1* farming a viable thing?  I’m like 200 posts behind in the announcement thread and thought I’d ask it here in case anyone knows.  
    1star farming is viable if you are below level 100. Any higher and it becomes less and less attractive. By the time you reach level 125, using sell all 1s and doing a single match of pvp will get you more ISO/time spent.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    Brigby said:
    Hi @Banacek555

    The team actually spent a lot of time making sure that players will be earning the same amount of XP in the new system, as they would in the old system. The difference now is that there is more XP granted from activities that improve a player's roster, instead of activities that don't. 

    Basically a lot of XP from only a few activities, as opposed to a little bit of XP from a lot of activities. It all should equal out to the same amount as before. The difference this makes though is allowing SHIELD Rank to more accurately reflect the strength of a player's roster.
    @Brigby
     Does applying covers to duplicate 1*s really advance your roster?  Applying covers to any duplicate for that matter.

    OP no ones forcing you to do anything, no ones even forcing you to play...

    Ballad of the OP
    Ooh, look what you made me dup
    Look what you made me dup
    Look what you just made me dup
    Look what you just made me
    Ooh, look what you made me dup
    Look what you made me dup
    Look what you just made me dup
    Look what you just made me dup
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,825 Chairperson of the Boards
    The “stop farming 1’s” point is around 160, not 125.  And it is equally valid for 2 or 3 power 1’s.

    You will get more iso from the xp earned by applying covers than selling them outright.  But it’s up to you if you want to.....
  • Banacek555
    Banacek555 Posts: 36 Just Dropped In
    @broll thank you for that constructive comment

    yes - great suggestion - I'll stop playing - I'll discard 4 years of my life that I've invested into this game - ill just accept never reaching the end game and so I'll roll over and die too - my apologies for offending you with my post.

    ill shut up and quit. 

    Great suggested solution - you'll make it far in life I'm sure - with such attitude to change.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,290 Chairperson of the Boards
    D4Ni13 said:
    I don't get it though. Even if lets say your rate was indeed slower than before, what's the fuss about ? Beyong a certain rank, there is no requirement for a better player rank, and the reward is a couple of ISO that most players can make during 1-2 days, anyway... I mean if you are going for rank 130, you most likely make more than 60k ISO in 2 days. So again.. don't really get why people think this progression is so important in the first place. You gain nothing other than ISO from this player rank. If it were more important to certain events or mission, that would be a thing. But it is not. 

    On the flip side, we know (coz Brigby said so) that they are planning to do *something* around Shield Ranks/Roster strength so XP might be important for the future, even if it is secondary now.

    Pure speculation but I wonder if SCL7-9 have maybe been a bit of a failure in having the effect of players engaging within the difficulty levels expected/set by the Devs.

    I’m wondering if their data was pulling up results skewed from players ranked much higher and (maybe even lower) than anticipated and they want to try and *fix* that.

    All of that aside - farming is one of the best aspects of this game so further encouragement of it is OK with me.





  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    The “stop farming 1’s” point is around 160, not 125.  And it is equally valid for 2 or 3 power 1’s.

    You will get more iso from the xp earned by applying covers than selling them outright.  But it’s up to you if you want to.....
    It's 1.1x and when you hit level 200, all xp gain from all your 2,3,4 and 5s is meaningless. The time you spend applying your covers is better spent doing a match and getting MORE ISO gain per second spent in game.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,825 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daiches said:
    bluewolf said:
    The “stop farming 1’s” point is around 160, not 125.  And it is equally valid for 2 or 3 power 1’s.

    You will get more iso from the xp earned by applying covers than selling them outright.  But it’s up to you if you want to.....
    It's 1.1x and when you hit level 200, all xp gain from all your 2,3,4 and 5s is meaningless. The time you spend applying your covers is better spent doing a match and getting MORE ISO gain per second spent in game.
    Absolutely true.  Just wanted to clarify things. If you wanted to optimize time spent, you could just save 1* farming for after sim is completed and/or off season.  Or it’s something to do between events.  Or you just want to mess around with your roster.

    If people are willing to tap nodes in PVE, then 1* farming will make sense for some too.  (Talk about a low ROI.)

    Or, as you say, don’t bother. 
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    DAZ0273 said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    I don't get it though. Even if lets say your rate was indeed slower than before, what's the fuss about ? Beyong a certain rank, there is no requirement for a better player rank, and the reward is a couple of ISO that most players can make during 1-2 days, anyway... I mean if you are going for rank 130, you most likely make more than 60k ISO in 2 days. So again.. don't really get why people think this progression is so important in the first place. You gain nothing other than ISO from this player rank. If it were more important to certain events or mission, that would be a thing. But it is not. 

    On the flip side, we know (coz Brigby said so) that they are planning to do *something* around Shield Ranks/Roster strength so XP might be important for the future, even if it is secondary now.

    Pure speculation but I wonder if SCL7-9 have maybe been a bit of a failure in having the effect of players engaging within the difficulty levels expected/set by the Devs.

    I’m wondering if their data was pulling up results skewed from players ranked much higher and (maybe even lower) than anticipated and they want to try and *fix* that.

    All of that aside - farming is one of the best aspects of this game so further encouragement of it is OK with me.





    That part I put in bold? It should terrify us all. Because if you can count on one thing, you can count on any change they make working for only a fraction of the players. Do you feel like you were on the right side of the PVE change? Do you feel like you were on the right side of the Vaulting implementation? Do you feel like you were on the right side of the reversal? Do you feel like you were on the right side of the character nerf/buffs collectively or individually? Do you feel like you were on the right side of the PVP changes? 

    Whatever *something* is will likely be good for some people and terrible for others. Not knowing what *something* is, or when it'll be dropped on us (the worse it is, the most likely it is to be dropped at end of day on Friday) is the scary part.

    Do you like this change? Are you going to immediately change your roster building strategy to try and optimize it? Well, *something* may make you wish you hadn't. Because getting ahead now may drop you behind when *something* happens.

    We'll all see soon enough, I suppose.
  • Wonko33
    Wonko33 Posts: 985 Critical Contributor
    I guess the word "fair" means something different for different people.

    I guess the definition of "fair" in this case is the little kid one. You know, when a little kid doesn't get what it wants he goes "It's not fair!!!!" (multiple exclamation points required)
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby said:
    Hi @Banacek555

    The team actually spent a lot of time making sure that players will be earning the same amount of XP in the new system, as they would in the old system. The difference now is that there is more XP granted from activities that improve a player's roster, instead of activities that don't. 

    Basically a lot of XP from only a few activities, as opposed to a little bit of XP from a lot of activities. It all should equal out to the same amount as before. The difference this makes though is allowing SHIELD Rank to more accurately reflect the strength of a player's roster.
    While I don't disagree with the core idea, nor do I wish to argue with your math since I definitely don't feel hard done by in terms of XP gain per day, I do agree with TC's notion that those of us with maxing out 3*s do have this feeling of needing to roster a dupe 3* to continue gaining XP.

    Personally, it's not an issue since I was doing that already well before this change was announced. And yeah, I imagine those of us reaching the max out of 3*s are in the minority, but it still feels like a bit of a hit in that regard.

    Suddenly we need to start filtering ISO not just towards our 2* farms, and not just towards a 4* we want to champ, but also towards the 3* we're levelling up so covers don't go to waste and we can continue to earn XP and not say "Ugh, another 3* Thor from my 2* farm that I can't use. Shame I won't get the XP from it!"
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Suddenly we need to start filtering ISO not just towards our 2* farms, and not just towards a 4* we want to champ, but also towards the 3* we're levelling up so covers don't go to waste and we can continue to earn XP and not say "Ugh, another 3* Thor from my 2* farm that I can't use. Shame I won't get the XP from it!"
    I just can't do it. I have roughly half the 4-stars left to champ and the majority of them are at 12-13 covers, so I feel an urgent pressure to devote all my ISO towards them - especially as 14th/15th/16th covers invariably roll in (despite hoarding) and taunt me in my 14 day queue. I have one max-champed 3-star (IM40) and I've already been selling his covers rather than roster a dupe. My Doc strange is a cover away from level 266 and my 3-star roster as a whole slowly inches into the same situation, with several in the 250s and 240s.

    It takes what, 125,000 ISO to champ a 3-star? For every three dupes I champed I could be champing a 4-star that will greatly improve my roster flexibility. While I understand the long-term gains of running a dupe 3-star farm it's simply too long term. While I obtain 3-star covers at a fairly decent clip, it's going to tie up waaay too much of my ISO in the immediate term to justify doing so.

    So I'm going to continue selling any covers obtained for max-champed 3-stars for 500 ISO. I don't even feel bad about it. 500 ISO is a nice reward. The changes to the XP system don't motivate me to change, either. I don't rely on SHIELD level as ISO income. When I level up I get a nice windfall. Kind of like a tidy sum from tax returns - free money to invest how I choose.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    aesthetocyst said:
    Dormammu said: ... It takes what, 125,000 ISO to champ a 3-star?
    127,419 all-in, but who's counting?

    Dormammu said: ... For every three dupes I champed I could be champing a 4-star that will greatly improve my roster flexibility. While I understand the long-term gains of running a dupe 3-star farm it's simply too long term. While I obtain 3-star covers at a fairly decent clip, it's going to tie up waaay too much of my ISO in the immediate term to justify doing so.
    Too long-term? Really? How long have you been playing this game now?  ;)

    Each crop rotates faster than the last. Iso flow picks up nicely. Want help finishing those 4s? Sell some maxchamped 3s and start a new 3 in the same slot. Your original 40 3*s will sell for 4.2M iso. That'll champ 11 4*s. Rechamping 3s is a whole lot easier than champing those pain in butt 4*s.

    3s are little help in PvE once you're into 4s, and now that it's a wincount world, who cares if you have a weak feature the next time one you flipped rolls around.


    Thank you, I was just going to ask this question when I saw your post.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst said:
    Too long-term? Really? How long have you been playing this game now?  ;) 
    Years. That's how long it's taken me to max-champ my first 3-star. I'm not spending years doing it again, even if that time has been reduced due to increased availability.

    aesthetocyst said:
    3s are little help in PvE once you're into 4s, and now that it's a wincount world, who cares if you have a weak feature the next time one you flipped rolls around.
    I disagree. My champed 3-stars are still invaluable to me, especially when boosted. I'm not selling my max-champed IM40 or Doctor Strange - they're as useful to me as any 4-star I have. Now, maybe I wouldn't have a problem selling some of the lower tier 3-stars (like Sentry, etc) but those were the last ones I champed and they're still a good distance from being max-champed.
  • shartattack
    shartattack Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
    years?  how long does it take the average player to max champ a 3?
    I'm around day 490 and i have 13 max 3s.  I just bonus whoever is closest, because the top level 3* rewards are so good...
  • Avalanche Kincaid
    Avalanche Kincaid Posts: 83 Match Maker
    Why not give the system a chance before complaining.  Just play the way you normally do and see how far you get in a couple weeks and compare with the old system.  I definitely was'nt expecting them to increase shield rank so was happy with any system they gave us.  They also did'nt have to give those above 125 xp earned, but they did (thank you D3 for the 700k, thor and rogue send their regards).  Farming 2* will be the easiest way to gain HP for you at this stage.  You don't even have to buy extra roster slots unless you sold all your 2* which would be fool hardy since they are required in PVE.  After you champ a 2*, collect those 2* until you have 6 of a color (even better if you start L 142 and use unusable color to finish off the champ).  Sell and reroster 2*.  Winning!!
  • feraldayor
    feraldayor Posts: 48 Just Dropped In
    There are people who don't farm? Wow. 
  • animaniactoo
    animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    Truth: I'm just shy of 2 years into this game and I haven't max champed any 3*s yet. I have one coming up - but not there yet.

    However, that's the result of personal choices about who I bonus hero and how much time I spend playing the game.

    The idea that you need 19 covers to make up for the loss of the 19 node completions is completely false and based on the idea that adding a cover gets you the same amount of XP as completing a node which is simply not how the new system works.

    Under the new system, with the adjustments that give you more XP for training a power (15 for 2*, 40 for 3* and 80 for 4*), more XP for adding champ levels (10 for 2*, 15 for 3*, and 25 for 4*), than was previously available for performing those same actions. Sometimes, huge increases for those same actions. Championing any character is also increased - by a major amount, giving you one fell swoop of additional XP. So unless you are changing your play style, you should be able to at a minimum maintain your current pace simply by cashing in your tokens and applying your covers. Or at least not lose such a significant amount of progress that you are "forced" to do anything to replace it.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    animaniactoo said:
    Truth: I'm just shy of 2 years into this game and I haven't max champed any 3*s yet. I have one coming up - but not there yet.
    Throwing my hat into the ring her today is 610 so 1.67 years playing.  I hit my first 2 3* max champs this week (though to be fair I'd have about 5 or 6 right now if I didn't start their dups first).  So for me 1.5 years is a reasonable estimate for max champing for me.

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