I vote for All Out War. Not against each other, but against D3's ineptitude at making this goldmine of a game the golden goose it deserves to be.
And to be clear, I am not pointing any fingers at Oktagon and do hope they can bring many positive enhancements to the game.
Most newer players that end up quitting comment about how slow progression is in this game. I remember it took me 2 months to get my first rare and about 3 before I got my first mythic. The drop rates are structured to be abysmally low so that they can poach those few players who have the addictive tendencies and financial means to drop thousands of dollars on the game. This is a classic technique in FTP games although most evidence shows that it works well in the short term and then fails utterly in the long term.
To compound their greedy business model they price exclusive cards at an absurd $40 per card. Are we buying a paper Jace the Mind Sculpter before he was banned? No! We are buying some card that has no resale value and likely minimal impact on success. I can afford to buy them and refuse to. Most people probably simply can't afford to play the game as anything other to F2P. I think this is another awful business design that leads to lost revenue.
I guarantee booster crafting will be exactly as it sounds. Take your 10,000 dupes spin them into new booster which will spit out 1000 more dupes. Spin the wheel 2 more times and you will taste that familiar flavor of ashes in your mouth.
It is ironic that some of the biggest supporters of the newbie/casual player experience are some the forums largest opponent to having the cards actually be collectible for players with enough time or money. I doubt many people were willing to keep plowing through 3 months of story mode and quick battle before finally landing their first mythic (Dragonmaster Outcast). I know my brother quit after a few weeks because the progression was so slow and he felt there were better games/uses of his time.
TLDR/Conclusion: I will continue to war against D3 until they stop trying to harpoon an occasional whale and adopt a business model that makes the game fun and accessible to players of all economic status.
#Not.Another.Dime.
luckyvulpi said: Moving forward I think some casual / noob opinions should be given slightly more consideration than elites because of how under represented they are. So if something messed up THAT much that a casual player took the effort to join the forum and voice their thoughts, then there should be some merit behind what they say. Especially if it's a lot of casual players who agree on the same thing. The recent cool down 4 hour vs 8 hour probably isn't a good example of casual players speaking up, but I remember back when Barel was the infinite cycler that broke the game. Alot of players complained while some of the high elite didn't want Barel to be nerfed. When a decision is made that is so bad that a lot of casual players join the forum to complain, I think their voice should mean more than others.
Ohboy said: Not sure how things changed between the time I started and you did, but back in my day, I would open my first big box in the first week, and complete story mode within the next two... Which yielded another box.Got 2 mythics out of that, which is about the expected result. Nowadays you can move on to events to get more rares and the occasional mythic from all the free packs that come along with that. Oh, and the free cards that are also now available from basic boosters. 2 months for a rare and 3 for a mythic? Did you just skip story mode and decide to bang your head on pvp with starter decks?
Well back in my newbie days I didn't realize the value of saving for a big box and spent all of my crystals on the 5 basic planeswalkers. I basically just enhanced my decks with new cards as I got them and switched colors when I could no longer beat the current level. After the basic walkers I usually wasted my money on individual boosters.
I had no idea there were forums and didn't do any research. Frankly, I didn't even know you could view the card list by clicking on the icon in packs. From a deck building perspective I certainly underestimated the value of card draw and gem converters early on. I certainly didn't realize QB had brackets or even that level 60 PWs got more ribbons for a long time.
In other words, I was exactly the casual noob that you are attempting to help.
But I basically was fed up with the game and almost did quit. Then they released OGW with pretty generous rewards and pretty tough battles. I managed to eventually take down the OGW bosses with my level 40 G1 Iroas Champ / Thalia's Lieutenant first strike deck. This was really what hooked me. Worthwhile prizes like Sphinx that could be won by defeating powerful bosses.
Pretty sure I would have quit if the grand prize was 20 mana jewels and a HOU booster like the RotGP prizes today... or are the prizes even that good in bronze?
Incidentally, this was the first time I ever pulled my wallet out. Of course in classic noob fashion I just bought some crystals that went down the drain on a big box. Regardless, I was willing to spend some money if I thought the cards would allow me to compete or fight for other worthwhile cards.
There is just simply no reason for them to be so stingy with prizes with a standard format and a constant stream of new content provided by MTG.
But as an example, I recently opened 50 packs of KLD that I was hoarding for no other reason than I find it boring to open them. 0 mythics and 7 rares. It's pretty easy to say that plenty of newbies have luck at least as bad as that... those guys could easily not see a myhic for well over 3 months as hard as it is to get going in this game.
Gilesclone said: I absolutely believe the needs of new and casual players need to be taken seriously. I am however very skeptical of long time players who claim to know what most of these players want.
luckyvulpi said: @madwren What I meant when I said casual players should have more consideration than others is that people should consider the other casual players who thought the same thing but didn't put in the effort to join the forum and instead just quit. I'm not trying to say that someone's opinion means more or invalidates another, I meant that if something is so bad people join just to complain then it should be a signal that something is really messed up and needs change.
luckyvulpi said: I remember back when mythics were one of the top prizes for coalition events someone in the top coalition made a thread complaining about how they got 'too many mythics' and they would have to force themselves to lose in order to not get the top mythic prize because they had every mythic from the new set.Not only was that thread a slap in the face for everyone not in the top coalition, the mythics that person got were some of the best in the entire game and he was showing it off to everyone else. It was one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen and I think of that thread everytime 'elite' is mentioned in mtgpq.I would be skeptical too of elite players thinking they know the best for everyone when an elite player complained about having too many mythics which resulted in the reduction of coalition prizes and the stingyness Hibernum has about being worried they might give out too much stuff.This is the thread. To this day I still remember it and it keeps me being skeptical whenever someone says one of the elite players were nice and helpful because I cannot image a nice top elite.https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/53876/for-the-next-event-am-i-supposed-to-lose-on-purpose/p1
Ohboy said: I've actually explained before that the reduction in coalition prizes was an inevitable event. The only choices we had were a controlled slide or off the fiscal cliff. Yunn was just a symptom of his time. The drop in coalition or indeed all guaranteed mythic prizes is the fault of the people who added them in the first place as prizes. It's just not sustainable and goes directly against any monetization attempts on the most enthusiastic group of players. The stinginess they have now is due to them having given out too much before. We voted to go off the cliff, because who cares about reality when I can swim in my mythics? I coined the word austerity here as a reference to the Greek crisis, and people ran with it. I'm not completely convinced they understand I was referring to the Greeks doing it to themselves with their previous unsustainable spending off future debt.
I can't even express how shocked I am that this fabricated pseudo-economic fairytale got 3 likes. To pretend that giving players too many mythics is comparable to the Greek's irresponsible spending habits is both illogical and frankly insulting.
So lets just explore some reasons that these things are not comparable and why the "reduction in coalition prizes was an inevitable event" has no basis in fact or reason.
1. Unlike the Greek government who can't print Euro's, the developers of MTGPQ can print as many mythics as they like.
2. Inflation is not a thing in an environment where trade cannot occur. Thus, distributing more mythics does not have the impact of devaluing existing mythics.
3. Greece is unlikely to uncover a new treasure trove of natural resources that can be sold to fuel the economy. MTGPQ has a new source of revenue given to them quarterly by MTG in the form of new sets.
You can't just blindly believe utter and complete non-sense just because you think the orator is intelligent, convicted, and a champion of the game. Non-sense is non-sense from anyone's mouth.
And ironically, the austerity package in Greece had a similarly detrimental impact on the Eurozone as the PQ austerity package had on the game. Perhaps we equate the 30% unemployment in Greece with the huge attrition rates. Perhaps we equate the Not.Another.Dime movement with the large scale depression that followed austerity in Greece.
Once again... lets explore possible solutions that could have fixed the issues of having top players getting a far outsized collection of good cards which created a barrier to newer or more casual players:
babar3355 said: Ohboy said: I've actually explained before that the reduction in coalition prizes was an inevitable event. The only choices we had were a controlled slide or off the fiscal cliff. Yunn was just a symptom of his time. The drop in coalition or indeed all guaranteed mythic prizes is the fault of the people who added them in the first place as prizes. It's just not sustainable and goes directly against any monetization attempts on the most enthusiastic group of players. The stinginess they have now is due to them having given out too much before. We voted to go off the cliff, because who cares about reality when I can swim in my mythics? I coined the word austerity here as a reference to the Greek crisis, and people ran with it. I'm not completely convinced they understand I was referring to the Greeks doing it to themselves with their previous unsustainable spending off future debt. I can't even express how shocked I am that this fabricated pseudo-economic fairytale got 3 likes. To pretend that giving players too many mythics is comparable to the Greek's irresponsible spending habits is both illogical and frankly insulting. So lets just explore some reasons that these things are not comparable and why the "reduction in coalition prizes was an inevitable event" has no basis in fact or reason.1. Unlike the Greek government who can't print Euro's, the developers of MTGPQ can print as many mythics as they like.2. Inflation is not a thing in an environment where trade cannot occur. Thus, distributing more mythics does not have the impact of devaluing existing mythics.3. Greece is unlikely to uncover a new treasure trove of natural resources that can be sold to fuel the economy. MTGPQ has a new source of revenue given to them quarterly by MTG in the form of new sets. You can't just blindly believe utter and complete non-sense just because you think the orator is intelligent, convicted, and a champion of the game. Non-sense is non-sense from anyone's mouth.And ironically, the austerity package in Greece had a similarly detrimental impact on the Eurozone as the PQ austerity package had on the game. Perhaps we equate the 30% unemployment in Greece with the huge attrition rates. Perhaps we equate the Not.Another.Dime movement with the large scale depression that followed austerity in Greece.Once again... lets explore possible solutions that could have fixed the issues of having top players getting a far outsized collection of good cards which created a barrier to newer or more casual players:Create a fair matchmaking system based on ELO with different brackets of players and coalitions for each event. Let top players and coalitions in lower tier brackets also collect mythic tier prizes or mana jewels which will eventually cause them to move up to higher tiers.Make the cards actually collectible for players with enough time, skill, and/or money. Make the game a collectible card game like paper magic rather than one in which players get to play with just a minority of the existing mythic/masterpiece cards. (If some cards are too overpowered and deckbuilding gets redundant, this is a problem with card balance not collectability)Create a "card crafting" system where players can target certain cards.I have yet to see a reasoned response for why the above solution would not have been a better response than the austerity package D3 used. All I ever get is, "Look, the toxic elites want to keep their mythic gravy train". Which is of course the classic response to anyone who is getting utterly destroyed by facts and reason in a debate.
Inflation is a devaluation of the currency in terms of its purchasing power. The applicable comparison in MtGPQ is that the money people put into the game was being devalued by the high amount of rewards dished out in the game. Why pay $80(?) for 1,850 Crystals when you can earn it in-game in two weeks?
And you can get guaranteed Rares and Mythics from playing whereas your 1,850 Crystals could just lead you to be creating a rant thread on the forums about how the drop rates must be rigged.
If people don't spend, the developers cannot earn money. If they cannot earn money, they have little incentive the continue developing the game. The publisher has little incentive to fund development on the game. The game won't last.
While this will become just another game which we used to enjoy, it is their livelihood.
If people don't spend, those new sets aren't a new source of revenue cause they don't earn money from people spending their saved up Crystals. They earn money only when people pay for stuff in-game with legal tender.
Did I enjoy the times when rewards were abundant? Of course. We had more cards to play with and events were more exciting when there's a big reward being offered for being the best.Would I enjoy having better returns for the time I invest in this game? Most definitely yes, more rewards for the same or less effort makes things sweeter.But do I understand that giving a group of players guaranteed Mythics and the rest little in the means of obtaining guaranteed Mythics will lead to a widening disparity in the player base and the problems that come along with it? Yes. In most games if people feel like the leader is running away with their lead and they aren't the one leading, they will eventually stop playing when they feel like the gap is too wide.Do I believe that giving players enough free currency and rewards in-game to the extent that they can start hoarding massive hoards worth hundreds of dollars (based on the in-game Crystal prices) every set would have an impact on the developer's revenue flows? Yes. Because what would players be willing to spend money on?
The whole point of austerity is that one has already overspent by overborrowing from the future self. When you go into debt, you can afford more than you normally can. To correct this balance, you would need to spend less than you can afford to start reducing your debt. Obviously when you're spending less than you can afford, your general level of welfare is worse than when you were spending more than you could afford.
I'm with the idea of having an ELO system for fairer matchmaking but it won't address the issue of top players running away with an outsized collection of good cards. The whole issue about the reward system is that rewards must go up every time someone progresses in a tier. Otherwise, people would rather sandbag in a lower tier to get better rewards for less effort which we have witnessed before in the history of this game.
But on the other hand, if the rewards slope is too steep then it becomes near impossible for newer players to catch up. Think of the amount of free rewards as the speed at which you're driving your car. A car going on average at 20mph is highly unlikely to be able to catch a car going on average at 40mph.
And it's not exactly easy to design a rewards system that has rewards going up every tier while still keeping rewards somewhat flat enough that the top players don't run away in terms of card collection and amassed resources.
Paper MTG has economies of scale which MtGPQ does not (and will likely never) have and operates in a different environment too. The number of paper MTG players is magnitudes above that of MtGPQ players. The servers required to keep MtGPQ running cost money to maintain for as long people are playing the game. Paper cards don't cost anything to WotC once printed, distributed and sold.
The app has to be compatible not only with the different OS versions but also phones with different specifications from different makers. The developers have to constantly be vigilant against hacking of the app or other exploits. If a paper card is ruined after being sold, the player has to bear the responsibility and not WotC.
And whenever people talk about a card crafting system, I think of Hearthstone. Hearthstone's drop rate and card collection size is also such that you cannot complete your card collection unless you spend a significant amount of moolah. Sure you can craft cards, but you can't earn anywhere near enough dust as a F2P player to craft even most of the cards you want. And that's the number 1 app in the mobile card game category.
An MtGPQ player earns more stuff per week than a Hearthstone player does even when rerolling quests to maximise the gold earned. In any case we have a booster crafting system coming up so let's see what we get from that.
Shall I say I find it shocking that you do not see any merit in the reduction in rewards?