Ohboy said:There needs to be a penalty imposed on people who don't move up if this is implemented. The carrot and the stick. It's as simple as that. And people are unwilling to support that idea.
ElvaanStrider said: TheDragonHermit said: My experience as a noob here is that the "toxic" elite have been nothing but helpful, so I cannot vote for either option in the false dichotomy presented here. Put me up for a rising tide raises all boats. The elite have always seemed to give people who needed help a hand up, and the game works better for it. This is 100% truth.Within a day of joining the Forums I got tons of advice and invited to a Discord group full of veterans who have been nothing helpful and nice.Tomorrow will be two weeks since starting this game and I am way further along progression-wise than I should be.
TheDragonHermit said: My experience as a noob here is that the "toxic" elite have been nothing but helpful, so I cannot vote for either option in the false dichotomy presented here. Put me up for a rising tide raises all boats. The elite have always seemed to give people who needed help a hand up, and the game works better for it.
Ohboy said: ElvaanStrider said: TheDragonHermit said: My experience as a noob here is that the "toxic" elite have been nothing but helpful, so I cannot vote for either option in the false dichotomy presented here. Put me up for a rising tide raises all boats. The elite have always seemed to give people who needed help a hand up, and the game works better for it. This is 100% truth.Within a day of joining the Forums I got tons of advice and invited to a Discord group full of veterans who have been nothing helpful and nice.Tomorrow will be two weeks since starting this game and I am way further along progression-wise than I should be. No one is a noob here for long. Your final statement says it all. This poll begs the question, because the noobs that stay noobs and struggle are the ones who do not join online communities like the forums, reddit or Facebook.The noobs and elite players have minimal contact. There's no conflict. Everyone you see here is either an elite player or on the way to become one(temporarily embarrassed elites, to paraphrase Ronald Wright) .It's painfully obvious that most players don't frequent our haunts just by looking at the numbers. If you're here and you're reading this, you're already part of the elite class.
Mainloop25 said: Ohboy said: ElvaanStrider said: TheDragonHermit said: My experience as a noob here is that the "toxic" elite have been nothing but helpful, so I cannot vote for either option in the false dichotomy presented here. Put me up for a rising tide raises all boats. The elite have always seemed to give people who needed help a hand up, and the game works better for it. This is 100% truth.Within a day of joining the Forums I got tons of advice and invited to a Discord group full of veterans who have been nothing helpful and nice.Tomorrow will be two weeks since starting this game and I am way further along progression-wise than I should be. No one is a noob here for long. Your final statement says it all. This poll begs the question, because the noobs that stay noobs and struggle are the ones who do not join online communities like the forums, reddit or Facebook.The noobs and elite players have minimal contact. There's no conflict. Everyone you see here is either an elite player or on the way to become one(temporarily embarrassed elites, to paraphrase Ronald Wright) .It's painfully obvious that most players don't frequent our haunts just by looking at the numbers. If you're here and you're reading this, you're already part of the elite class. If that's all it takes to become an elite, then any supposed barrier is a self-imposed one.That being said, the game could do a better job of promoting the forums in-game, if the thought is that the only reason more people aren't on the forums is because they don't know about it yet.
shteev said: After posing the poll question in the thread title, I went on to define my terms a little further in the first post of this thread, differentiating them as 'casual' and 'hardcore' players.You may think that n00bs by definition don't come to the forums, and if that's how you want to define the term, I won't argue the point.But clearly, both hardcore and casual players come to the forums, and they do seem rather to violently disagree on some subjects, like 4 or 8 hour respawns for events, don't they?
Ohboy said: shteev said: After posing the poll question in the thread title, I went on to define my terms a little further in the first post of this thread, differentiating them as 'casual' and 'hardcore' players.You may think that n00bs by definition don't come to the forums, and if that's how you want to define the term, I won't argue the point.But clearly, both hardcore and casual players come to the forums, and they do seem rather to violently disagree on some subjects, like 4 or 8 hour respawns for events, don't they? In really disproportionate numbers. And it's hard to stay on message when the other side brigades into the thread and starts insulting you en masse. Remember I started off simply saying rewards were too high and it got spun into some big fight over whether I was jealous of not being in a top coalition and whether I deserved less rewards because I didn't put in effort in the game. More recently @Phillmoore got attacked a few times in his thread for simply stating his experience with the 6h pve. The side with numbers then points to their numerical superiority and declares victory(look how many people disagree with you Mr negative!) . It's usually not a violent disagreement between factions so much as one guy saying something and getting attacked by the overwhelming legions then having to defend himself and losing the message in the process. See how in philmoore's thread it's just him taking a silent beating because he really refuses to address the insults and divert from his message. He can't win. You can call that a fair fight or discussion if you want. But it's really not. In the perfect world, people would be unbiased and call out nonsense no matter which side they're on. Ours exists in no such perfect universe. When grizzo cursed at philmoore, and andrew declared that philmoore should be ignored,the mob gave tacit approval of by not calling out the poster. Now imagine if philmoore was the one saying these things as a retort to people refuting his point. Now you can point to him and say : "look how unreasonable he is. Why can't he be more understanding? Why does it always have to be war?"Obviously the "correct" answer to give is to be understanding and respectful. Therein lies the trap in the question. There's no way for the minority to do that and get heard. He always ends up in a siege no matter how respectfully he starts out. The smaller voice always has to shout just to be heard and he gets called out for shouting. The individual in the mob can shout all he likes and not be called out for it because he's drowned out by the sea of murmurs.
bken1234 said:Would you want to stay in a game if you were coming in here blind?I wouldn't.
Ohboy said: bken1234 said:Would you want to stay in a game if you were coming in here blind?I wouldn't. This is a major part of what I feel the game should change. The expected baseline shouldn't be "anyone who comes to the forums will be fine"People should want to play the game even if they were coming in blind.It's also why I hate it when people say "just join a good coalition or alliance". It's the opposite of an answer to how we can make the game more open to everyone.
Ohboy said: Exactly why I keep saying. If you're not going to put update notes in app to inform people...at least give a link to the forums.That barrier is low only because of the low population right now though. There's a limit to the population and the elite teams start having the luxury to choose people they want to support/help.
Ohboy said: Mainloop25 said: Ohboy said: ElvaanStrider said: TheDragonHermit said: My experience as a noob here is that the "toxic" elite have been nothing but helpful, so I cannot vote for either option in the false dichotomy presented here. Put me up for a rising tide raises all boats. The elite have always seemed to give people who needed help a hand up, and the game works better for it. This is 100% truth.Within a day of joining the Forums I got tons of advice and invited to a Discord group full of veterans who have been nothing helpful and nice.Tomorrow will be two weeks since starting this game and I am way further along progression-wise than I should be. No one is a noob here for long. Your final statement says it all. This poll begs the question, because the noobs that stay noobs and struggle are the ones who do not join online communities like the forums, reddit or Facebook.The noobs and elite players have minimal contact. There's no conflict. Everyone you see here is either an elite player or on the way to become one(temporarily embarrassed elites, to paraphrase Ronald Wright) .It's painfully obvious that most players don't frequent our haunts just by looking at the numbers. If you're here and you're reading this, you're already part of the elite class. If that's all it takes to become an elite, then any supposed barrier is a self-imposed one.That being said, the game could do a better job of promoting the forums in-game, if the thought is that the only reason more people aren't on the forums is because they don't know about it yet. Exactly why I keep saying. If you're not going to put update notes in app to inform people...at least give a link to the forums.That barrier is low only because of the low population right now though. There's a limit to the population and the elite teams start having the luxury to choose people they want to support/help.
Ohboy said: shteev said: After posing the poll question in the thread title, I went on to define my terms a little further in the first post of this thread, differentiating them as 'casual' and 'hardcore' players.You may think that n00bs by definition don't come to the forums, and if that's how you want to define the term, I won't argue the point.But clearly, both hardcore and casual players come to the forums, and they do seem rather to violently disagree on some subjects, like 4 or 8 hour respawns for events, don't they? More recently @Phillmoore got attacked a few times in his thread for simply stating his experience with the 6h pve.
bken1234 said: I think we all need to rethink how we address each other and the tone we are setting on this forum (ME INCLUDED) and work to make this a place that grows the game.
I think we all need to rethink how we address each other and the tone we are setting on this forum (ME INCLUDED) and work to make this a place that grows the game.
bken1234 said:What I'm saying is -- especially for a social gamer -- as this game has coalitions and is now a social game -- If the negativity of this forum were your first taste, is this a place you would want to stay?Also, I think the advice to join a good coalition comes more for people who have sought and found more welcoming, helpful communities other places. Which goes to the point of my post. This should be a place where everyone feels welcome. Most of the top players in this game (and by top I don't mean top 10 -- I mean the longest and the best -- competitive and casual) are here, and can really contribute to the longevity of the game -- and all we do is bicker on this general board. It's ridiculous.
madwren said: Ohboy said: shteev said: After posing the poll question in the thread title, I went on to define my terms a little further in the first post of this thread, differentiating them as 'casual' and 'hardcore' players.You may think that n00bs by definition don't come to the forums, and if that's how you want to define the term, I won't argue the point.But clearly, both hardcore and casual players come to the forums, and they do seem rather to violently disagree on some subjects, like 4 or 8 hour respawns for events, don't they? More recently @Phillmoore got attacked a few times in his thread for simply stating his experience with the 6h pve. By "simply stating his experience", you mean "revert back to 4 hour recharges for the players of the game, not the elitists who only want to win but don’t want to play", right? It's hard to be surprised when something like that meets with hostility, especially when he's previously shown the same inclination to dismiss, rather than acknowledge, the validity of complaints about the 4-hour recharge. I'm not saying we all have to disagree, but the tone of his post was neither positive nor inclusive. It was sour and insulting.
Mainloop25 said: madwren said: Ohboy said: shteev said: After posing the poll question in the thread title, I went on to define my terms a little further in the first post of this thread, differentiating them as 'casual' and 'hardcore' players.You may think that n00bs by definition don't come to the forums, and if that's how you want to define the term, I won't argue the point.But clearly, both hardcore and casual players come to the forums, and they do seem rather to violently disagree on some subjects, like 4 or 8 hour respawns for events, don't they? More recently @Phillmoore got attacked a few times in his thread for simply stating his experience with the 6h pve. By "simply stating his experience", you mean "revert back to 4 hour recharges for the players of the game, not the elitists who only want to win but don’t want to play", right? It's hard to be surprised when something like that meets with hostility, especially when he's previously shown the same inclination to dismiss, rather than acknowledge, the validity of complaints about the 4-hour recharge. I'm not saying we all have to disagree, but the tone of his post was neither positive nor inclusive. It was sour and insulting. I was going to write this as well but you beat me to it, so I am just quoting to agree. I think he knows that sort of tone won't be met kindly anymore because he hasn't been active on the forum since he posted that.