Pvp vs Pve

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  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    We used to do thst but with a rotating 2* cover as they are more common and keeping the 3*
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I would keep the 3 if I liked it, or if I had extra hp on hand, but otherwise just would rotate it out.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,290 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
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    Perhaps another way to look at this is that the developers saw PvP having fewer and fewer players and want to make a change that may entice newer players and 3*-4* transitioners into playing PvP for that guaranteed 4* cover that anyone can achieve with effort.  Unfortunately this change will negatively impact many veteran PvP  competitive and even casual players with a lot of lost CP but maybe this is driven by game metrics that we don't know as well? It is plausible and with most changes there are winners and losers.  I imagine on the forums, most of us are veterans and will lose from this but perhaps the other 95% of players that don't have a voice on the forum were actually asking for something like this.  Let's face it...we forum posters are the bourgeois of MPQ   :p  

    Some of us are the proletariat and some are royalty as well!
  • elvy75
    elvy75 Posts: 225 Tile Toppler
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    hopper1979 said:
    PVE and PVP are two very different systems and I am having a hard time seeing how they could make pve progress like they now do in pvp.  So please elaborate with an example that is similar. 

    Next is it the change that bothers people or just the number of wins to get the rewards?  I am one of those who play pvp as much as I can (always get the 10 cp, hit 900 when possible) but I am in the weird scaling zone at the moment so things have become very difficult in pvp (I have 1 maxed 5 star and all I see are 5 maxed teams after about 300 points.)  I think the wins might improve this because now I do not have to worry about skipping people until I find somebody I can fight and get good points for.  My concern right now is the number of wins seem very high to me but that is a tweaking issue and one I hope they address next season but I have no issue with the idea of win progression.  
    Reward structure of progression rewards was the same, with big chunk of CP being the last progression reward. With new win based system they moved the CP progression to placements. So OP asked a question, how would you feel if they would move final CP progression in pve to placement only?
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    Right...
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
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    OJSP said:
    It's okay. I'm interested to know the answer to that question too. Your question hopefully will be answered by others in general rather than by one specific person.
    I'll play. Most reasonable people don't think removing the CP from progression in PVP is good.

    As I've stated before, it's about unity.

    When PVE max clears were raised we were met with half the Forum saying, "Good, I already do this much".

    And by combining a feature a lot of people like (wins PVP) with a bad feature (loss of top prog. CP) they've successfully divided us again.

    Shame, really. Playing everyone against each other. Sorry to any 1,200ers who don't get 15 CP now.
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    This is poignant
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,916 Chairperson of the Boards
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    BoyWonder1914 said:
    Alsmir said:
    I noticed that a lot of supporters of the old PvP systems are:

    b) people who think, that it made them somehow more "skilled" than others
    You know the funny thing about that? They ARE. 

     Everyone started PVP sucking at it, and it definitely wasn't the most intuitive game mode. Making it more intuitive by just knowing how wins you need to get, to get whatever rewards is a HUGE step for newer players. No one is complaining about that. However, there is no longer any strategy to that. It doesn't take much skill or knowledge of the game to keep pressing a skip button until you find a team you can easily smash, to get to whatever total. It took skill, strategy, and experience to really figure out what your roster is capable of in the old system. Finding your 'float' point, learning just how far you could actually go with 1 boosted 4, 2 boosted 4s, how long you can generally go unshielded based on what team you were using, how to still score 800+ with no boosted 4s for the week, how to score the most points and still keep them when you're running low on HP, how quickly you can climb to certain point totals....etc. 

    Yeah all of that? DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE. 

    Now you just mindlessly grind away at the easiest teams you can beat, until you get to whatever total. You tell me which requires more "skill".
    I don't know.  For me personally, I'd just take my two best boosted that week (34 low level champs), unfortunately have to be locked into those characters for the event, grind until about 800 points, then use boosts for the final push to 900 (where I'd stop), and SHIELD out.  Maybe a shield in between depending on the health pack situation.  I was using the same teams playing against the same teams.

    Now I know this is a Sim example and not the Storm event (haven't entered that yet), but I am using way more combinations than I did under the old system.  The gaming the game strategy is much less, but the in-game strategy is way higher.

    I now see a team and ask, "what's the best team to counter it?" or "what's the weakest team I can use and still come out ahead for some weak retaliations" (for those who still want some good ole fashioned gaming the game).

    Under the old system half the characters were obsolete because they weren't fast enough, scary enough, or were offense only.  It is amazing to feel that so many more characters are open to me.  All the in-game and match-up strategies that have opened up are way more appealing to me.
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    They were always available to you. Youre only now realizing it. 
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    I actually wrote a similar strategy for my alliance since the new pvp changes
  • Doc L
    Doc L Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
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    This general question, ‘PvE vs PvP’ is one that I think deserves a different point of view... What I mean is, as far as I can see, the majority of people are focusing on 2 issues - CP distribution and the number of matches that are being enforced on people - which may or may not be as the Developers have stated in their reasoning.

    To me, there’s a much more significant issue which is in terms of gameplay. How is PvP different from PvE Simulator mode? Now, yes, there are differences such as nodes, specific opponents, rewards gained per node and so on. But in principle, by making this change to PvP, how is my gaming experience significantly different to PvE? If I am to prolong the life of a mobile game, new, innovate gaming modes are required, rather than less. I would rather see a third option of gameplay, like the old PvP, still used in some way. New characters alone will not keep the game going, nor will new players who have better experiences. Keeping players interested and motivated to play with new modes, new experiences, this is what should be going on.

    I am not ignorant that PvP did not need changes, and that newer/less developed rosters were getting a hard time in PvP as it was. But ignoring all rewards, all bonuses, even all the extra time it may or may not take to play, I don’t want PvP to just be a restricted (based on the ‘flavour of the week’ boosts) set of PvE nodes from the Simulator. I’ll play it, I’ll earn the rewards (indeed, I played PvP a lot, I’ve crossed paths with many in this thread and the other main thread over the years), but it’ll get more and more boring without innovation brought to the table.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,916 Chairperson of the Boards
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    corytutor said:
    They were always available to you. Youre only now realizing it. 
    Nope, if I were to take my new team of Level 40 Gambit, 2* Daken, and Patch and try to climb, I'd get obliterated and smacked down super fast.  No way I could conceivably climb to a 4* cover with that crew.  Now that progression is tied to wins I can use all sorts of different teams and worry less about losing more progression than I gain because of retals.
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    You absolutely could if you knew how and took the time. I know a guy who was putting up 2k every event with nothing more than scarlet with and 3* deadpool and doing it consistently. 

    Ojsp post about it was pretty spot on. 


  • NotBAMF
    NotBAMF Posts: 408 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2017
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    I'll get taken to task for this, and I hope I don't come across as more abrasive than I mean to, but... here goes.

    I dig the PVP changes. I like them a lot. I have played a substantially higher amount of PVP already in the season than I would normally have at this point, and I am still a fan. But at the same time, I have empathy for those that hate the change. To me, the mere thought of getting 1200 points in an event was a ludicrous fantasy. but I get that there were people who did, and I am legitimately sorry for the loss of access to the 15 CP reward. That sucks for you, and I understand. I wish they hadn't done away with it so there'd be a higher percentage of happy players.

    But at the same time... that capital of empathy is being spent so quickly with the perpetual and repeated complaining the last few days. And by the same people, over and over.

    For reference's sake, when I saw the new SHIELD training event and how it basically locked me right out of accomplishing ANYTHING in it, I made one topic basically saying "Aw nuts, this stinks", and that was it (I actually replied two or three times to clarify I had missed some info and MAYBE it wasn't as bas as I thought, but basically it was my venting that it was something stunk for me and that was it). 

    Now imagine if every time you came to this site there were 100+ notifications to old topics, and 2-3 new topics al still complaining about SHIELD training. And they were all, by-and-large, by the same 5-6 people or so. You'd think "Boy, those people should go find something better to do with their lives", right? 

    Well that's where I am at with all the "I'm done buying things!" and "What would you PVE players do?!" and "Who else is boycotting?" topics. Guys, we all get it. It sucks for you. We're all sorry, but it is what it is at this point. Either make do with it (make do? make due? Huh, I never typed that out before! I'm not sure which it is) or don't, but I'm quickly losing sympathy hearing about it. 

    Go read some comics. That'll cheer you up. I'm slowly rereading both The X-Tinction Agenda and Batgirl of Burnside. They're both way better than complaining online. 
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
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    Daredevil217 said:
    corytutor said:
    They were always available to you. Youre only now realizing it. 
    Nope, if I were to take my new team of Level 40 Gambit, 2* Daken, and Patch and try to climb, I'd get obliterated and smacked down super fast.  No way I could conceivably climb to a 4* cover with that crew.  Now that progression is tied to wins I can use all sorts of different teams and worry less about losing more progression than I gain because of retals.
    Many of my alliance mates in the points based system would beat the seeds with a 2* team, climb to a certain point with that, switch to unboosted 3*, climb a little higher, switch to boosted 3*, climb higher, switch to unboosted 4*, climb higher, switch to boosted 4*, climb higher, before finally getting to their "A" team. Using a multitude of characters in their roster. You were never locked into using only certain characters if you understood how the system worked. You can only see opponents that match what you have in your roster. But, if you use 2* characters, 2* rosters can see your team. Sure it takes waiting for hits, but how is that different from now?? I didn't see anything but champ 5* teams right after seeds in Cat-5 even though I used my boosted 3* for the seed teams.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,916 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Milk Jugz said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    corytutor said:
    They were always available to you. Youre only now realizing it. 
    Nope, if I were to take my new team of Level 40 Gambit, 2* Daken, and Patch and try to climb, I'd get obliterated and smacked down super fast.  No way I could conceivably climb to a 4* cover with that crew.  Now that progression is tied to wins I can use all sorts of different teams and worry less about losing more progression than I gain because of retals.
    Many of my alliance mates in the points based system would beat the seeds with a 2* team, climb to a certain point with that, switch to unboosted 3*, climb a little higher, switch to boosted 3*, climb higher, switch to unboosted 4*, climb higher, switch to boosted 4*, climb higher, before finally getting to their "A" team. Using a multitude of characters in their roster. You were never locked into using only certain characters if you understood how the system worked. You can only see opponents that match what you have in your roster. But, if you use 2* characters, 2* rosters can see your team. Sure it takes waiting for hits, but how is that different from now?? I didn't see anything but champ 5* teams right after seeds in Cat-5 even though I used my boosted 3* for the seed teams.
    The difference is, while 2* rosters could see me, 4* rosters could as well, correct?  

    Under the old old system if those 4* rosters hit me I was losing progression points fast but in this new system if they hit me I still get to stay at the same place progression wise, unless I’m missing something.  
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Daredevil217 said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    corytutor said:
    They were always available to you. Youre only now realizing it. 
    Nope, if I were to take my new team of Level 40 Gambit, 2* Daken, and Patch and try to climb, I'd get obliterated and smacked down super fast.  No way I could conceivably climb to a 4* cover with that crew.  Now that progression is tied to wins I can use all sorts of different teams and worry less about losing more progression than I gain because of retals.
    Many of my alliance mates in the points based system would beat the seeds with a 2* team, climb to a certain point with that, switch to unboosted 3*, climb a little higher, switch to boosted 3*, climb higher, switch to unboosted 4*, climb higher, switch to boosted 4*, climb higher, before finally getting to their "A" team. Using a multitude of characters in their roster. You were never locked into using only certain characters if you understood how the system worked. You can only see opponents that match what you have in your roster. But, if you use 2* characters, 2* rosters can see your team. Sure it takes waiting for hits, but how is that different from now?? I didn't see anything but champ 5* teams right after seeds in Cat-5 even though I used my boosted 3* for the seed teams.
    The difference is, while 2* rosters could see me, 4* rosters could as well, correct?  

    Under the old old system if those 4* rosters hit me I was losing progression points fast but in this new system if they hit me I still get to stay at the same place progression wise, unless I’m missing something.  
    Do you see 2* teams? Lots of people do that
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    You get to keep progression daredevil but not placement which is for cp
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
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    How did you notice? What sample are you using?
    There are definitely some people, who were not able to get 4* from progression reward pool - i am one of them.
    Am i the fan of win-based progression? Yes. Do i like the idea of 16 wins for 10CP/40 wins for 4*? Damn no - wins required should be cut by 30-50% to make it at least comparable to PvE AND the previous PvP system....

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