Here we go again

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  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
    Qubort said:
    Jarvind said:
    ERMAHFERGINGERD ITS TEH END OF TIEMZ

    I expect the same thing to happen that always happens:

    - Unpopular change is announced/implemented

    - Forumers lose their minds for 2-3 weeks, claims that "the whales will finally quit" are tossed about willy-nilly

    - Optional: Devs give Brigby some wishy-washy non-acknowledgement to post that basically says "we know it sucks but also we don't care"

    - One person quits and makes a big dramatic post about how the dev team is soulless and hates its customers

    - Everyone gets used to it and life continues as normal

    - Optional: That one guy that quit comes back within 6 months
    A bunch of people quit after OML nerf and never came back.
    In football real supporters stand by their team in good & bad moments. I expect the same in MPQ. 

    But this being said, nobody is obliged to stay if they don't enjoy the game anymore. I do, so there's that. I'm happy that I can play my favorite heroes from childhood (Rogue, Gambit, Wolverine, Spidey). Complaining about the 'loss' of a feature for which I never paid (PvP progression is a content free of charge for everybody) seems silly to me. It's like complaining that your neighbor earns more than you or has a cuter dog than you do... life is not fair for everybody, we adapt & we move on...

  • Qubort
    Qubort Posts: 203 Tile Toppler
    D4Ni13 said:
    Qubort said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    JHawkInc said:

    You're right, in that we don't know specifics. But silence speaks volumes.
    Agree, but still they might change some things. Like I really doubt they would give us 20 HP as final reward like they did in the last test. They could still lower the number if they want to. I don't know if they do. But good thinks will come from this change also: 

    1. players that want to play only progression will not be impacted by points so they don't need to shield and they would open up their teams because of that

    2. more players with opened-up teams means more variety in teams you see overall, and this will benefit both progression oriented players and placement oriented player

    3. new strategies, since for an easier progression you don't want to be in the top, because you will fight harder teams, so this coupled with teams variety will mean overall more targets for everybody

    4. you can play as much as you want & whenever you want. A lot of players hate the fact that they have to play PvE at the start & at the end to get max progression. So if PvE is a mess, at least it is good that PvP would allow people to play whenever they want, since for progression only quantity matters and not timing or speed. 

    1. Players that are only going for progression already didn't shield. If they did, they could also hit 900pts with less than 40 wins.

    2. There won't be more variety. People will continue to use their A teams to get to the joke of 40 wins as fast as possible.

    3. It's not easier progression because you need more wins and your MMR won't change so you will continue to see the exact same teams.

    4. You can play PVE whenever you want for progression. With 5 start nodes not counting in the math for progression, it's even easier than ever to hit progression. If you want placement you'd need to run optimal.

    1. You are assuming everybody goes from 0 to 900 in one go, but the reality is that only a few manage to do this, so they need shields to stay where they climbed and to go from there.

    2 & 3. For 40 wins the best strategy is to play some games, lose some games, than play some more. Because if you are at the top you will only play hard teams for a while, but if you lose games and are constantly out of top50 you will encounter easier teams. This allows & encourages to play what you like, rather then your best team all the time, because points & loses doesn't matter for progression.

    4. Not quite. I mean, yeah you can play every mission 5 times and reach max progression, but still, playing as optimal as you can ensures you more points and better overall rewards for placement, even if you won't battle at the top. And if you want to play optimal, then you have to play every mission 4 times in a row. Which many people won't like. The PvP win-based is what PvE should have been like: speed & timing doesn't matter at all.

    D4Ni13 said:
    Qubort said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    JHawkInc said:

    You're right, in that we don't know specifics. But silence speaks volumes.
    Agree, but still they might change some things. Like I really doubt they would give us 20 HP as final reward like they did in the last test. They could still lower the number if they want to. I don't know if they do. But good thinks will come from this change also: 

    1. players that want to play only progression will not be impacted by points so they don't need to shield and they would open up their teams because of that

    2. more players with opened-up teams means more variety in teams you see overall, and this will benefit both progression oriented players and placement oriented player

    3. new strategies, since for an easier progression you don't want to be in the top, because you will fight harder teams, so this coupled with teams variety will mean overall more targets for everybody

    4. you can play as much as you want & whenever you want. A lot of players hate the fact that they have to play PvE at the start & at the end to get max progression. So if PvE is a mess, at least it is good that PvP would allow people to play whenever they want, since for progression only quantity matters and not timing or speed. 

    1. Players that are only going for progression already didn't shield. If they did, they could also hit 900pts with less than 40 wins.

    2. There won't be more variety. People will continue to use their A teams to get to the joke of 40 wins as fast as possible.

    3. It's not easier progression because you need more wins and your MMR won't change so you will continue to see the exact same teams.

    4. You can play PVE whenever you want for progression. With 5 start nodes not counting in the math for progression, it's even easier than ever to hit progression. If you want placement you'd need to run optimal.

    1. You are assuming everybody goes from 0 to 900 in one go, but the reality is that only a few manage to do this, so they need shields to stay where they climbed and to go from there.

    2 & 3. For 40 wins the best strategy is to play some games, lose some games, than play some more. Because if you are at the top you will only play hard teams for a while, but if you lose games and are constantly out of top50 you will encounter easier teams. This allows & encourages to play what you like, rather then your best team all the time, because points & loses doesn't matter for progression.

    4. Not quite. I mean, yeah you can play every mission 5 times and reach max progression, but still, playing as optimal as you can ensures you more points and better overall rewards for placement, even if you won't battle at the top. And if you want to play optimal, then you have to play every mission 4 times in a row. Which many people won't like. The PvP win-based is what PvE should have been like: speed & timing doesn't matter at all.


    1. I'm making the opposite assumption. Only those that threw up a shield or two hit 900. The people that cheer this move refused to ever shield.

    2/3. Simply not true. Your MMR is your MMR regardless of points.

    4. You need speed and timing in both PVP and PVE if you want top placement. A slow hop is a negative hop. Also, you clearly stated progression, which is jokingly easy to hit in PVE now.

  • elvy75
    elvy75 Posts: 225 Tile Toppler
    Bryan Lambert said:
    CT1888 said:
    This kills the 5* transition for anyone pvp focused unless they open up MMR. Why would you want to enter that realm and have to grind 40 wins against Panthos/Gambolt/etc. for the same rewards as before?
    In the points based regime, once you had champed 5*s, the CP 1200 became more easily accessible, which was surely the point of building a stronger roster.
    That’s not my current experience, FYI.

    I just champed my first two 5-stars (Jean and OML, because that’s who I had covers for first) and it took me from an MMR where I was matched with people on a roughly equal footing to an MMR where I was matched with a mix of champed, better 5-stars (including whales with champed Gambits) and 4-Stars with 50 more champ levels than mine. My float point dropped below 300. I was never a heavy PVP guy before, but I went from being able to hit 575 with minimal hassle to being unable to hit 300 hassle-free. I don’t expect my MMR to improve under the new system, but I should be able to scratch out enough victories over 2.5 days to crawl back to the 10CP.
    you changed MMR bracket, and now all you will ever see are dual 5*. 5* game needs adjusting, unfortunately you didn't adjust to it yet, and now you will never really adjust to it, but will have to slog through 40 matches to get to that progression  
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    2/3. Simply not true. Your MMR is your MMR regardless of points.
    If you are outside top50 you get easier teams to fight. If you are top 20 you get harder opponents. 

    I am a 4* player and while outside of top 50 I see 3* teams or 3* and 4* combinations. In top50 I begin to see 4* teams and in top 20 I start seing champed 4* teams.


  • madsalad
    madsalad Posts: 815 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
    Dear 5* breatheren:

    Grill non stop. Hit a grill with a grill so everyone has nice easy grill retals. 

    Lets some of those 3* teams have a taste.

    Then climb to placement off the backs of the proletariat! 
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    D4Ni13 said:
    2/3. Simply not true. Your MMR is your MMR regardless of points.
    If you are outside top50 you get easier teams to fight. If you are top 20 you get harder opponents. 

    I am a 4* player and while outside of top 50 I see 3* teams or 3* and 4* combinations. In top50 I begin to see 4* teams and in top 20 I start seing champed 4* teams.



    Well I'm a 5* player and my MMR only opens up if I'm at the top of the shard and/or most other 5* players are shielded.  At that time I can see anything from 1* rosters for 1pt each to 550 players for whatever they're worth to me.

    Before that it does not matter if I've joined a fresh bracket at 1 or 499, I will still generally only see duo 5*s or sometimes a 5* with a big 4*.
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    CharlieCroker said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    2/3. Simply not true. Your MMR is your MMR regardless of points.
    If you are outside top50 you get easier teams to fight. If you are top 20 you get harder opponents. 

    I am a 4* player and while outside of top 50 I see 3* teams or 3* and 4* combinations. In top50 I begin to see 4* teams and in top 20 I start seing champed 4* teams.



    Well I'm a 5* player and my MMR only opens up if I'm at the top of the shard and/or most other 5* players are shielded.  At that time I can see anything from 1* rosters for 1pt each to 550 players for whatever they're worth to me.

    Before that it does not matter if I've joined a fresh bracket at 1 or 499, I will still generally only see duo 5*s or sometimes a 5* with a big 4*.
    So 5* play is so demanding ? Sounds awful. Up until 4* everything is ok. What could be the reason of this limitation in 5* land ? Few players ?
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    madsalad said:
    Dear 5* breatheren:

    Grill non stop. Hit a grill with a grill so everyone has nice easy grill retals. 

    Lets some of those 3* teams have a taste.

    Then climb to placement off the backs of the proletariat! 
    I mean, if you have developed 5*s, you've already seized the means of production, so you'd kinda be going backwards.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Qubort said:
    broll said:
    Bowgentle said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    I don't get it. Why is everybody always jumping to (very bad) conclusions before we even see the full details of something new to arrive ? 
    Because we've been here for four years, and every time they roll out changes in this way - throw a bomb a day before the changes are visible in game, then run and hide until stuff blows over - the changes have been BAD.
    Very bad.

    Every time.

    I for one am about 12 changes beyond giving them any benefit of the doubt any longer.
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice, shame on me.

    If you really think every change is catastrophically bad and as you stated in the announcement thread this change means the game won't live to a 5th anniversary, then why are you still playing?

    As the OP says this is vaulting all over again.  Vaulting was really good for some, really bad for others and was ultimately changed to something that's generally accepted as a good compromise.  As someone who overreacted pretty badly about vaulting, I kept playing and learned to accept, in some ways almost like it by the time it was reversed.  

    I truly hope some significant tweaks were made because there certainly were some issues with the win-based system.  If they weren't they'll probably listen to feedback for a while and come back with something similar, but slightly different in a few months.

    Do you think they tweaked vaulting on their own? Months of complaints and people quitting I'm sure helped them make that decision.
    Honestly I’ve gone back and forth. There’s a strong case to make that vaulting increased hoarding and reduced people getting unusable covers. Both of those are undesirable to the devs. It’s possible they would have made the change realgardless of outrage. We’ll never truly know. 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Qubort said:
    D4Ni13 said:
    JHawkInc said:

    You're right, in that we don't know specifics. But silence speaks volumes.
    Agree, but still they might change some things. Like I really doubt they would give us 20 HP as final reward like they did in the last test. They could still lower the number if they want to. I don't know if they do. But good thinks will come from this change also: 

    1. players that want to play only progression will not be impacted by points so they don't need to shield and they would open up their teams because of that

    2. more players with opened-up teams means more variety in teams you see overall, and this will benefit both progression oriented players and placement oriented player

    3. new strategies, since for an easier progression you don't want to be in the top, because you will fight harder teams, so this coupled with teams variety will mean overall more targets for everybody

    4. you can play as much as you want & whenever you want. A lot of players hate the fact that they have to play PvE at the start & at the end to get max progression. So if PvE is a mess, at least it is good that PvP would allow people to play whenever they want, since for progression only quantity matters and not timing or speed. 

    1. Players that are only going for progression already didn't shield. If they did, they could also hit 900pts with less than 40 wins.

    This simply isn’t true in many cases. At various times I tried using shields to hit a certain value that was out of scope for my roster level. If you’re low enough to be a taster snack you can easily loose more points during a single unshielded match then you gain. One time when hitting 800 was hard in early 4* transition there was a particularly desirable 4* cover. I spent over 1000 HP doing multiple single shield hops and sliding backwards all the while. THAT IS BROKEN. That is one of the things they are trying to fix. The fix isn’t perfect but I’d rather an imperfect fix to no change. 
  • j0nats
    j0nats Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    this is bad because it slows the progress of 5* transitioners like me who can hit 1200, but cant sneak in top 10.

    its also one huge time sink now, added to the alreadu huge time sink which is pve
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited October 2017
    This content has been removed.
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,214 Chairperson of the Boards
    jtsings said:
    .  I myself am not wild about having to get 40 wins to get the max progression 4* cover, but if it's a character I want or need, I'm willing to put in the extra time to more develop my roster.  (points finger at my 3/4/8 Medusa).
    The extra 6 Coulson Covers I collected before I finally got a 3rd Blue to champ him are right there with ya!

    Amd while 40 is nothing to shake a stick at, I Rarely could reach even the 3* cover progression for less wins than that!  By the time I got past 300 points in the old system, I could dump thousands of ISO on skips and still be lucky to find anything worth more than 30 points.  Then comes the inevitable 90 point slide while doing a single match!  Worst example was one time I was trying for something so thought was worth my time I loaded up a Whales TU and TU boosts;  I came out 120 points down after that match!

    Perhaps it’s a different experience if you’re coordinating your jumps with others to ensure that you’re getting a good value for your attacks, and then only suffer point loss when some random like me hit you.  But if you think that’s how the Developers want or intended ANYONE to play, your full of it.
  • BigMike182
    BigMike182 Posts: 60 Match Maker
    Why aren't players going to leave if they don't like the direction of the game?

    Because they still enjoy it, even as they grumble.

    Because we keep getting new characters and they gotta catch 'em all.

    Because they've sunk a lot of time and money into MPQ and don't want to have paid for nothing.

    Because, on some level, they're addicted. They like the reaction their brains get to the stimuli presented in the game and want to keep that feeling going.

    I'm using "they," but I should say "we" because I haven't played today and I feel a little anxious and I don't like it....

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